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 shpongled
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 25
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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 Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! 
#314466 - 11/11/09 11:24 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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So I have been kicking this idea around for a while. I have noticed the uptick of interest in LED lighting systems. They have some very nice advantages and many system have some significant disadvantages.
I am would like to design and build some decent LED lighting systems for myself and possibly others. I have decent soldering and electronics experience but am not a EE and currently am in the very early stages of this idea.
I spent a good bit of time building custom amplifiers and other audio projects and know my way around a circuit diagram. I also feel that LED systems are relatively simple in design. Currently I think my main hurdles with be designing the necessary power supply for the system and the selection of the correct LED's.
What really piqued my interest is this site: http://hydro-grow-led.com/blog/336w-penetrator-grow-light/
They are a sponsor on IC and there are currently a few grows with their systems in the early stages. They claim to have designed their systems in house and the results are better then HID's.
I am not looking to do this as a business, instead it is more of a hobby. I enjoy soldering and building electronics. Also, currently I am unable to grow so this project is my introduction to this hobby.
I am hoping to turn this into a community project with help and information coming from multiple sources. I don't want another proprietary LED system full of FUD. I want to embrace open source principles so all input will be considered and any knowledge gained will be available to everyone.
Here is what I need from all of you:
- First anyone with experience designing circuits specifically the necessary power supply components. At first I plan on prototyping with breadboard but if we can flesh out a good board I would be willing to have a PCB manufactured.
- Any information on specific light wavelengths and configurations that optimize growth through all stages of the plants life. I found some information on IC and other sites as well as the manufacturers website listed above. Even still I need to lessen my workload so all input is appreciated.
- I NEED GROWERS! Any experienced growers interested in testing who are willing to work to help improve the system are welcome. I want to offer these systems at cost to a small group of "beta testers" who are interested.
- Part sourcing will also be important. I am hoping the normal suppliers like digikey and mouser will be sufficient but its possible that some obscure company is offering some crazy new LED. If you know about anything special....POST IT!
- Finally, any experience on current systems that are available would be great. I want to hear what works and what doesn't. If anyone had any they are willing to let me take a look at; even better.
Thanks for reading my wall of text. This project is now in your hands. I am willing to put in the work and make all of these systems by hand but still need help from other interested people.
This could be an important step for the evolution of indoor gardening or a total flop. I think the best way to find out is try.
Votes accepted from 11/11/09 12:00 PM until 01/11/09 11:21 PM
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shpongled
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 25
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: shpongled]
#314871 - 11/12/09 06:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well it looks like this project is going to be derailed before it begins. I cant seem to find a source for high quality 1w LED's for less then $3 each. I think the only option would be contacting a supplier directly but the quantities would be prohibitive.
Also, interest seems to be less then stellar. No hard feelings though. I will leave this post open for a few more days and then chalk it up to good intentions without substance and remove it.
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shpongled
Stranger
Registered: 07/04/09
Posts: 25
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: shpongled]
#314929 - 11/12/09 09:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just found a great article outlining the design and implementation of a "tunable" LED array for plant reserch.
PDF Report
I am still having a hard time sourcing LEDs with the perfect output wavelengths. So far there are very few sources. One of the most promising is the NorLux 90 Die Hex. They have a monochromatic red array with a peak output of 660nm. Perfect! The downside is cost, $48 a pop! But from what I can tell it is actually an array of 90 individual LED's on each die.
Here is a great article about making a led grow light with some great info:
http://screwdecaf.cx/broiler.html
Hopefully I can drum up some interest in this thread. 
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geokills
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Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 1,287
Loc: city of angels
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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 Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: shpongled]
#315493 - 11/14/09 03:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am interested. In fact, late this past week I received a working 300w prototype built to my own specifications from a manufacturer in China, at about half the cost that comparable US suppliers are asking. It took me about four months, as the first shipment arrived defective. I returned it and the second shipment was also defective - I opened up the unit and found that the one of the voltage converter boards had a broken part likely from impact during shipping. So the third time around, I requested double-boxing and also changed my requested light ratio after researching more on the subject.
I was hoping to already have real world results by this time, but due to all the extra shipping delays I'm only now going to be able to start testing the array in the greenhouse, and since the Thanksgiving holiday is coming up, I may not even get to start that leg of this project until December. We'll see how it goes... I probably won't have a good idea of its relative efficiency with respect to conventional HID light sources for several more months but I finally have my feet wet and I'm getting excited to see what these guys can do! I plan to order a couple more smaller (~150w) arrays with slight variations in the LED wavelength ratios in efforts to determine the most productive combination.
The system itself is pretty straightforward. The LED's are mounted into an aluminum heat sink, with one voltage converter feeding 48 1 watt LED's. Fans are mounted behind the heat sink to dissipate the thermal build up and the whole shabang is placed inside steel housing. I'd wager your best bet on finding relatively inexpensive LED's is to go straight to the factories that produce them in Szhenchen, China.
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Do Your Part!
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rodfarva
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Sobe
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: geokills]
#317605 - 11/17/09 08:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
geokills said:
I am interested. In fact, late this past week I received a working 300w prototype built to my own specifications from a manufacturer in China, at about half the cost that comparable US suppliers are asking. It took me about four months, as the first shipment arrived defective. I returned it and the second shipment was also defective - I opened up the unit and found that the one of the voltage converter boards had a broken part likely from impact during shipping. So the third time around, I requested double-boxing and also changed my requested light ratio after researching more on the subject.
I was hoping to already have real world results by this time, but due to all the extra shipping delays I'm only now going to be able to start testing the array in the greenhouse, and since the Thanksgiving holiday is coming up, I may not even get to start that leg of this project until December. We'll see how it goes... I probably won't have a good idea of its relative efficiency with respect to conventional HID light sources for several more months but I finally have my feet wet and I'm getting excited to see what these guys can do! I plan to order a couple more smaller (~150w) arrays with slight variations in the LED wavelength ratios in efforts to determine the most productive combination.
The system itself is pretty straightforward. The LED's are mounted into an aluminum heat sink, with one voltage converter feeding 48 1 watt LED's. Fans are mounted behind the heat sink to dissipate the thermal build up and the whole shabang is placed inside steel housing. I'd wager your best bet on finding relatively inexpensive LED's is to go straight to the factories that produce them in Szhenchen, China.
Could you elaborate on the prices you paid or expect to pay and kind of walk us through how you went about ordering from communists?
How do the panels you ordered, or plan too, theoretically compare with whats commercially available (like 90w ufo light etc?)
What would your applications be for each size/type panel your looking at?
Peace
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geokills
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Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 1,287
Loc: city of angels
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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 Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: rodfarva]
#317690 - 11/18/09 09:57 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Cost is roughly US$ 500 - $600 for a 300 watt panel (typically selling for upwards of $1000 here state side) not including freight expense. I won't know how they compare to existing units or their appropriate applications for several months, as I've only started my research in this area. For Chinese vendors, look into global trade websites and, of course, use Google.
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Do Your Part!
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: rodfarva]
#317709 - 11/18/09 10:57 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I am an importer and work directly with various Chinese factories and suppliers, travel there quite often sourcing new items.
If you get me specific parts etc I can source anything direct in the way of components most likely.
If you ever finished a prototype and wanted to go into production, provided it was a minimum 20' container, I can get it to happen as well. PM me all the info if your interested.
Avoid using web based sourcing like Ali Baba, you are already paying up to 30% markup using agents of this type. On a full blown order that I handle for someone can be as low as 5% commission on an order for acting as the agent etc.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009 
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: Azyle00]
#317721 - 11/18/09 11:13 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Update:
The factory I use out of Guangzhou can supply just about any type of LED strips, bulbs, whatever, any color, any size and so forth. The problem is, they are not so interested in small orders, so I would either pick up a a strip roll or two when I go there next trip or see if I can convince a special order. I am interested now in this project.
I have had an idea for a custom built LED vertical cone chamber, with a round 12 inch top, then built to be 24 inch high, with 1/2 inch spacing in between the vertical strips (to allow air flow in between. Essentially, you are build a vertical "cone" that a single plant grows inside, light penetration to every part of the plant evenly, yet the cap is still the strongest source, so plant will grow up straight. Idea came from my bro who wants to build an 4' X 4' X 6' room with LED panels on roof and all four walls, filling the entire room with plants except dead center (working area), but I still felt that the center becomes a dead spot for light, wanting to grow a plant in a LED environment where light is uniform, constant, even and maximized. The mod-ability of LEDs indicates to me that some very advanced designs can be thought up.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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rodfarva
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Sobe
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: Azyle00]
#317851 - 11/18/09 02:33 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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my background is limited at this point, but what im interested in is getting involved in the MM business, as the laws become more defined (michigan.) Where are you at in Cali?
I am friends with a family that has operated a grenhaus and ponics/indoor-gro retail outlet for 20 years. They would in no way right now be interested in co-financing a 20' but times are changing, and the demand for this type of product will produce a boom town out of detroit, trust me.
Their original idea was to grow the pot at their well known place. I thankfully was able to squash that idea this week, pointing out that it would be a good way to get their whole family robed and/or murdered. A grow is still being considered, but now in a safer manor with lots of clever precautions (poison darts, knockout gas, robotic sales people etc...)
My investment potential today is pretty good, but if i dont make a move within a year i wont ever.
Keep us updated on your situation and shit.
My longterm goal is to create a company that would specialize in equipping some zero or low carbon operations.
Home grows will be everywhere in michigan (moreso) and my concept is, combined with the right natural light sources and methods of efficiency, an indoor grow can cheap and effective for personal use. I know im not talking about anything new, but i have some creative ideas all pretty much centered around high efficiency lights.
Talk usually is pointed to high yield covert grows, which i admit i like to talk about the most, however based on the trend that people will have plants in the same place they live for personal use demands simple solutions.
You know, progress to that end will create the most profit anyways. I think the first step is to sell a package that promises all the "tomatoes" you would ever need personally out of a 4x6 area, and less than $100 in new equipment. Not hard to do, but most people wont venture into the world of sitting down and learning- then applying knowledge. Come to the store, get your tomato growing supplies and expert advice. my twist will be that i will create a store that people wont feel any anti-pot dogma- and create a legitimate community of people that will be a referral base. None of this will go over well if you ask people in michigan to spend $500 on a hobby that could be legally questionable. thats my part- im not an expert in anything about growing, but i can sell some chia pet, style shit that will actually work to alot of people here.
once the community of responsible users is mainstream, we will be able to sell plants eventually, and seeds, and even open a dispensary if our movement became powerful enough.
I know all you cali people are prolly laughing at this, but in michigan were at square one and need to push the envelope and follow your example. And maybeeeeee ill make some money without the threat of arrest 
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sterben
Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 127
Last seen: 10 years, 9 days
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.
Edited by sterben (12/10/09 12:33 PM)
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 Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: sterben]
#318331 - 11/19/09 05:29 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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LED are the way of the future but they need some work. When the big bulb companies start putting out systems then maybe they well be half decent but for now they fall way short of HID.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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rodfarva
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Sobe
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: Magash]
#318546 - 11/19/09 02:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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If its going to get better, i think we need to try new ideas out, and perfect using LED's with their current limitations. For people who dont grow weed to make $, i see most of the setups people want to discuss as being entirely to expensive. Maintenance and safety issues make low power LED's attractive to me and many others.
sooner or later a compact self contained led rig that can grow bud should be under $100 (mediocre results.)
I know a lot of people that would buy that.
Thats not to say a combined LED/other light source for $1000 wouldn't be a bad idea either if you want the quality plants and baseball bat sized colas.
Many of the people i hear from that say LED's are bad have never had to pay for their own electricity. If someone reading this doesnt know, i want to point some things out.
In 10 years my electric bill has tripled in price. I can only see it costing more in the future also.
Also in big grows people could reduce their footprint by combining LED panels to lower electric costs and attention associated with the cost.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: rodfarva]
#318556 - 11/19/09 03:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
If its going to get better, i think we need to try new ideas out, and perfect using LED's with their current limitations
This is the job of the companies making the light setups. Why are people going to want to spend out the ass for a light setup that gives crappy results? So they can better the research for million dollar companies?
Quote:
Many of the people i hear from that say LED's are bad have never had to pay for their own electricity. If someone reading this doesnt know, i want to point some things out.
How are they growing if they don't pay for their electricity?
Quote:
Also in big grows people could reduce their footprint by combining LED panels to lower electric costs and attention associated with the cost.
There not efficient enough, you'd be better off using low wattage HIDs.
Quote:
i see most of the setups people want to discuss as being entirely to expensive.
LED lightg setups are more then 3 times the cost of HID.
With the results they have why bother using them at all. With the costs of the LED lights and the results you'd be better off just buying the weed.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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rodfarva
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Sobe
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: Magash]
#318622 - 11/19/09 04:15 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
How are they growing if they don't pay for their electricity?
I dont know anyone who grows weed indoors and hasn't been stealing electricity the whole time...
The rest of those statements were predicated on a more ideal situation in the future.
Wiring LED's by hobbyists is what brought the current products to the market.
The shit people reading this site (and the blue site) get into is amazing. There are people here capable of innovating. Im not sure if i remember right, but wernt you the guy that colonied pound brick of marijuana with cube myc.?
So, anyways... people like playing with growing. Im interested in LED's, but my next grow might (prolly) be low w HID. I give you props, your the guy to ask if your goal is growing a quality crop + volume. Im not really interested in either. The shittyist bag i can grow poorly is better than most of the weed on the streets in my city.
Its not like cali out here, people who have a lot of weed are selling it. Id'e like that to change i suppose.
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,030
Loc: Southwestern US 
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: rodfarva]
#321298 - 11/24/09 10:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, I can put in my two cents on the matter.
I own a couple of LED grow lights, a 120W unit and a 90W unit...In a 1:1:7 ratio of blue:orange:red
The most actively absorbed wavelengths of light are listed on wikipedia. The problem with most led lights is that most plant's photoperiods are regulated by phytochrome. Phytochrome has two interchangeable types: red and far-red. This means that a red type will absorb red light and become a far-red type, until it absorbs far red light and converts back to red type. The frequency of switches and the type of switches control major photoperiod-related biological processes.
I believe one improvement that LED systems could incorporate would be to include a few far-red LED's in the mix for flowering purposes. A quick fix for this is to include a CFL in the grow area to provide a small amount of balanced light to help in these processes. I know from first-hand experience that my plants produce more from 1 26W CFL in a 3x3 grow room with a 90W LED light.
Another thing that I believe LED's lack is UVB THC levels. This could be added in very low amounts to an LED light with maybe an option to switch off that particular set of LED's. This would make the grow room more safe for the grower while he/she is in the grow room working.
I know that, being diodes, LED circuits tend to have little resistance, and therefore are very sensitive to slight changes in voltage across the circuit. This leads to massive fluctuations in current and can easily burn up your new toy. I have read that most LED light bars and the like use current-limiting power supplies to ensure that the current is not allowed to swing too high. Being that I am a Mechanical Engineer, that is all I can offer you in the realm of EE. My professor for that class was a shit show 24/7...I didn't learn much and he eventually got fired for being retarded haha  .
Sorry I can't help more, if you would like to talk about the light aspect of this I might be able to think about it more when I have more than 3 hours of sleep under my belt 
peace,
agmotes165
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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hisheater
trigger man
Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 61
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: sterben]
#321554 - 11/25/09 02:32 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Saw something interesting on the second video:The total Kilowatt hours of the HID were 420, while the LED was only 99. That's less than 1/4 of the electricity used, and there is MORE than 1/4 of the bud produced(almost 1/3). So going by cost, it seems better to use LEDs than HIDs.
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They call them fingers but I never see them fing... Oh wait, there they go.
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Doo Yoo Hookah???
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Dr. Penguin
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 1,036
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: hisheater]
#322560 - 11/28/09 09:20 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Azyle00: How large of an order would we need to place? Perhaps if we all went in together we could get a case of red and blue LEDs to split. I would be very interested in LED if the price were right and I'm more than willing to build my own array.
As for the production readyness of the system, I'm not much concerned. I realize that without a lot of special considerations LED is not quite ready to be a stand alone system (no far-red light, no UV-B, no spectrum) but if they could produce the bulk of my light (much more efficient than HID) and I just use a very low wattage HID for spectrum coverage, I would still be getting more PAR wattage and spending less in energy.
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singlee
Man
Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 4
Loc: China
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Building LED Grow Lights - Need your help! [Re: Dr. Penguin]
#580296 - 08/23/11 06:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am also interested in DIY led grow light.
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Love me love my cannabis.
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