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 Agent 47
John
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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 Combining HID & LED 
#353345 - 01/25/10 11:17 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Tomorrow an unsure man will walk into a hydroponic store and purchase 5 Lights.
(4) 90w UFO LED -- 360 Watts > They claim to be "Gen3", , it's probably just a marketing ploy, he hasn't paid it much mind.
(1) 1000w Lumatek Digital Ballast, Light, Reflector, & MH/HPS Bulbs
1360 Total Watts. I'm guessing the LED watts have a, at least, slightly higher lumen output per watt?
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I'm getting to my question, please bear with me as I fill you in on the details.
His desire is to construct a room, which is in progress, to use the available light & space in as near perfect as possible ratio of full "healthy" artificial sunlight to space. He's growing in buckets/pots with an organic medium and organic fertilizers.
Question(s)
If you had to guess the optimal dimensions of a room with all 6 sides painted with flat white paint, what would it be?
Could that amount of light feed and support 40-50 Female cannabis plants at or near optimal conditions in said room?
THANK YOU GROWERY, I'm a SHROOMERY head.
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Agent Outdoor 2010
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 Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc: 
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Agent 47]
#353346 - 01/25/10 11:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont know if I like what I see with led. Although if you are just supplementing with led that might be kind of a cool experiment.
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Agent 47
John
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Triptonic]
#353353 - 01/25/10 11:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Triptonic said:
I dont know if I like what I see with led. Although if you are just supplementing with led that might be kind of a cool experiment.
Yeah, I'm hoping it will go good. I don't really know If I Like what I see with LED's either. It's almost like it's not worth it. I do see results though, I figured maybe a 1000w watt MH During veg and HPS during flowering would be a real reliever on the LEDs.
Do you think that about of lighting would support 45 Plants?
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Agent Outdoor 2010
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Agent 47]
#353355 - 01/25/10 11:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Depends on how big they are man.
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Agent 47
John
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Triptonic]
#353361 - 01/25/10 11:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Triptonic said:
Depends on how big they are man.
I Appreciate you helping me by the way.
45 mature, trained, mostly indica females from seed to harvest in a room with all 6 sides covered in flat white paint. I would like to use this one if it could get the job done so I could test the LEDs...
But I'm A Realist....
So, Would you recommend dropping (2) LEDS, and adding another 1000w for 45 plants?
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Agent Outdoor 2010
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Agent 47]
#353364 - 01/26/10 12:02 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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The more light the better, but I have no experience with LEDs what-so-ever. I have only seen a few grows with them. Personally I would just pick up another 1000 watt. You need about 3,000 lumens per square foot of space so measure your grow space. And then after that determine how many lumens your LED light produces and also how much your 1000 watt produces. The LED might be good though cuz it has different color combinations.
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Agent 47
John
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Triptonic]
#353368 - 01/26/10 12:15 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Triptonic said:
The more light the better, but I have no experience with LEDs what-so-ever. I have only seen a few grows with them. Personally I would just pick up another 1000 watt. You need about 3,000 lumens per square foot of space so measure your grow space. And then after that determine how many lumens your LED light produces and also how much your 1000 watt produces. The LED might be good though cuz it has different color combinations.
Excellent feedback, I really appreciate it. I couldn't remember how many lumens it was per square foot, thanks for that.
I'd rate you but all my time and posts are in the Shroomery, I don't even have enough posts yet.
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Agent Outdoor 2010
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Agent 47]
#353372 - 01/26/10 12:30 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ha ha no problem man, some more people will step in here and tell ya what to do also. Just stick around. I'm by far not a master at growing.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Triptonic]
#353387 - 01/26/10 01:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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How much are the LED units costing you per unit?? I hear they're pretty spendy. It seems to me that you could get a lot more out of your investment if you put the money you want to put into LED's into pure HID lamps.
What's the size of your grow area?? Give us dimensions of the room. This will let us better help you.
45 plants is a lofty goal. I think what Trip was trying to get out of you is how big do you plan on letting your plants get. You can grow them all sorts of sizes. It kinda sounds like your planning a sea of green type of thing, is this what you had in mind?? That's a lot of plants for 1000 watts in my opinion unless your going to keep them very small.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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 thanks for steppin in  I can answer simple questions, but when it comes to the more in depth stuff I'm at a loss.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Triptonic]
#353390 - 01/26/10 01:31 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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You give all sorts of good advice, don't talk yourself down man.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Haha, yeah but seriously when it gets to difficult I'm at a loss. Thanks for the compliment though. Damn reading all this shit makes me want to get going on my Hashberry grow  . But not until July it seems.
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Crusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting
Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 786
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Triptonic]
#353495 - 01/26/10 12:22 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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HID + LED = Great Bud
I'm no longer flowering with both, but I will be again soon as I saw much bigger yields vs. HID only. The 90w LED isn't going to do much vs. a 1000w HPS, but the additional spectrum it provides your plants alone is worth it.
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SpaceMonkey
Mind Pilot
Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 3,471
Loc: Hawaiian Islands
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Led are good as supplement lighting due to colored bulbs but imo that is all they are good for at this point in their development. 
MH and HPS lighting seems to be more efficient and more suitable for the outcome you are looking for.
Your goal is quite big and think you would be better off with several(possibly 2) HPS and (2)MH bulbs in combination. This way you have a decent spectrum of blue and red light. I just think LED needs to advance a bit more before their cost becomes acceptable. One member i can think of has a pretty nice couple write ups here about his use of LED Agmotes165
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 Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness
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Agent 47
John
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: SpaceMonkey]
#353543 - 01/26/10 03:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input everyone, it has helped a lot.
"He" has new plans for his grow room now.
The amount of plants has been cut down to 30. The dimensions of the room are as follows; 7'x6'x6' : 42'sq. and 252 cubic ft. With 2000w a rough estimation of lumens per sq. foot (probably outdated) would be 5,714 (Not counting LED)
He has purchased (2)1000w HID lighting systems. 1 With a 1000w MH Bulb and (1) 1000w HPS bulb + spare. Currently the idea is to run cool tubes and push the air out with 6" Inline Fans by CAN rated at 270 cubic feet per minute for each 1000w bulb. However, one fan, at least to my understanding is enough to do the room. Is there a way to run the ducting through both cool tubes and use 1 CAN fan? Also, running the cool tubes is not a definite, if I can be pointed to a quality air cooled reflector it would be much appreciated. My only local shop is HTGsupply, and I don't think they carry the SuperSun2 so that's my real handicap.
For the undergrowth, he has purchased (10) 13w LED Spotlights, 5 Blue & 5 Red. Mounted throughout the room in a X pattern, or like a 5 on a die on low slanted boxes (see picture for details). They are pointed in alternate directions covering each others back. The idea is to promote growth and not neglect the undersides of the plants.
THANKS A MILLION
This picture does not show to rotation and covering of lights, I can't rotate it exactly the way I want but you get the idea. 
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Agent Outdoor 2010
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SpaceMonkey
Mind Pilot
Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 3,471
Loc: Hawaiian Islands
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Agent 47]
#353550 - 01/26/10 03:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Check out RVF Garden Supply, They are one of (our)the Growery sponsors. They have good prices and prompt service, and that i can say from experience!
I had won the first RVF contest here at the growery and he was very helpful and quick with his delivery for not receiving no money, if ya know what i mean!
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Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,048
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: SpaceMonkey]
#353605 - 01/26/10 04:59 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpaceMonkey said:
Check out RVF Garden Supply, They are one of (our)the Growery sponsors. They have good prices and prompt service, and that i can say from experience!
I had won the first RVF contest here at the growery and he was very helpful and quick with his delivery for not receiving no money, if ya know what i mean!
Yes and don't forget to start an account there and get 5% off, and enter coupon code DEAL and get another 10% off.
With discounts like that his prices are hard to beat.
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Stoneth]
#353608 - 01/26/10 05:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Agreed, that is where I'm going to get my reflector and nutes.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Combining HID & LED [Re: Triptonic]
#353675 - 01/26/10 07:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Go onto youtube. There they have vids of people doing grows of led and HID next to each other. That was all the reason I needed to stay away from led lights for now. They have a lot of work to go before they come close to HID. Put it this way, there is a reason the only makers putting out these lights are fly by night companies but the big bulb manufacturers haven't put them out yet knowing they could make a ton of cash if they did. Cause these lights don't performe well enough to call them ready to replace HID as grow lights.
Yes I do think it's the way of the future but just not yet. 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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