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Quote: Harry_Ba11sach said: I'm still not sure I agree. As a case study, compare Agmotes LED grow where he used approx 200W of LED power with my CFL grow where I had 250W of CFLs (although only about 100W was on a single plant).
I yielded nearly triple what he did
No offense to agmotes but cultivation skills and factors alone could explain the difference IMO. My 120w LED vastly outperforms 195w CFL (3x 65w Flourex CFL's) for comparison. Just like the ICmag thread we might be splitting hairs unless people try both and report unbiased results, but the fact that he said it was a fact is what I take offense with. This guy clearly hasn't cultivated anything under LEDs and is spewing hypothetical bullshit based on studies of drop-in T8 tube LED replacements, etc. He says getting two lamps side by side isn't the solution when in fact it is, lol.
I have to agree...I did not have ideal conditions for those grows, the soil mix was ok, the temperatures were always hot and im sure the CO2 concentrations were probably low due to 2 plants in a tiny space. I'm glad my grow is seen as a sort of benchmark but it was by no means perfect.
If nobody else does this then I will have a steady flow of money coming in about a year...and will purchase a 600W LED and a 600W switchable MH/HPS system and do a side by side grow with better conditions.
I just currently don't have the money, time, and space to do it currently or it would already be done.
peace, agmotes165
-------------------- “The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
I'm all for the best lighting solution. It's just from all the studies I find tend to say the same thing.
I would love to find a real study showing LED's are superior but I just can't.
Yes the last study I posted was from 15 years ago but every study I've read following that date has had the same results.
What makes LED's more efficient is that they last longer, use less electricity, and the ability to aim the light like you said, directional. But that's really a tricky statement if you start thinking about it.
Flouros send light in all directions which means you need a reflector to aim your light. LED's just being directional constitutes the claim of being more efficient, but like the study I posted shows, more efficient doesn't always mean better quality of light.
I think what makes LED's a better solution for streetlight and such is the fact that they do last longer. It's not because they put out more light.
When cities make decisions like this they take literally everything into account. The gas cost from traveling all the way down to the wage they have to pay the crews to change out the light.
It's very easy to see that in situations like this it would be more efficient to use LED's. But still, is a better quality of light produced?
I'm trying to show there is a difference when you take everything into account.
Yah, your right when you say I haven't grown with them and my claim towards plant growth is all hypothetical but I still stand by my claim because I have seen the proof and the studies behind it.
LED can only be so big and can only produce so much light. When you calculate how much physical space they could possibly occupy, along with how much light they can actually produce, the math proves they are inferior QUALITY of light.
Yah, were is the group buy on a LED light; since they are superior then HID lighting in every way. And if you don't believe, then why are digital ballasts going for less then the LED lights?
You can get a 600W Lumatek digital ballast, for MH and HPS for >$200 on eBay. That is ridiculous. Those used to go for $500-600.
The prices are high because it's new technology and they haven't had a lot of time to perfect(cheap down) the manafacturing process. Nor is their enough demand right now to drive prices down.
-------------------- If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie.
Quote: DieselB said: Nor is their enough demand right now to drive prices down.
I disagree. The 120w I bought in January 2009 can now be had for 35% of what I paid and most other units especially UFO's have also seen their cost cut in half. Ebay might not be the best barometer, but there are thousands of led grow lights getting bids and selling every day there compared to maybe a hundred HID setups. Advertisers pay 3x the price on google adwords for LED grow lights and look at some of their keyword tool search data:
The ones really driving the costs down are all the aerogarden types that never would have considered buying a HID setup but love the idea of LEDs and an indoor garden that doesn't generate heat or make any noticeable change in their electric bill. MJ growers can just ride the wave as prices go lower and intensity increases as opposed to doing 99% of the spending (like we do on HPS) and being locked in at the same prices year after year after decade with little to no innovation.
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