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 A To The K
Smokey
Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 219
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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 Fuck coir. 
#592792 - 10/19/11 11:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I'm filling this out for soil since its more of a soil than a hydro thang.
Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones?
Bagseed.
2. How old are your plants?
2 weeks since they hit the cubes, about 10 days since they popped. 7 days since I planted to the coir. So, 2 weeks?
3. How tall are your plants?
Seedlings.
4. What size containers are they planted in?
Solo Cups
5. What is your soil mix?
Straight coir.
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
Tap water that has been ph'd. Second watering was today...see details.
7. What is the pH of your water?
Yellow...which is supposed to be 6 to 6.5...leaning more to the 6.5 I think.
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
Fed 1/4 strength FF Grow Big just now.
9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
No.
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights")
CFL for now. I'm thinking about 150w.
11. How close are your lights to the plants?
4 inches?
12. What size is your grow space in square feet?
About 2x1. Small box. See picture.
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
I don't have a thermometer in there but I know its less than 80. Humidity IDK.
14. What is the pH of the soil?
Unsure. No meter to check unfortunately.
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
Nope.
16. How much experience do you have growing?
About 10+ soil grows, 0 successes in coir.
This seems to happen every time I try to grow in coir. I want to make the switch so badly, but it just doesn't want to work for me. I popped the seedlings in ph'd watered rockwool. They were doing fine for a week and I dropped them in the coir last Wednesday.
The next day they were all pretty curled under which I would say is a big overwatering. I figured "ok, they're seedlings so they don't have roots to drink the water I gave them, my bad."...but then they all started yellowing AL-FUCKING-READY. This is where I always get stuck with coir.
Today they are still rather curled under which pisses me off to no end. But since they are so yellow, I decided I needed to feed them something to keep them alive, and the only way I know how to do that is by giving them water... . So, despite the overwatering signs I just gave them about 1/4 strength of FF Grow Big hoping it'll save them.
I was under the impression that one couldn't over water coir, so I just gave 'em a real good flushing on the day I planted them. Obviously a mistake.
Can someone please help me out and let me know what I'm doing wrong here? This is just so frustrating.
Group Shot:
Worst one:
Best one:
Even the best one is really bad
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wire5
Awesome Possum
Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 307
Loc: "The sticks"
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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I'm a noob so take what I say with a grain of salt. But from I've read that looks like either over or under watering. My guess is over looking at your soil. Also begginers are more prone to overdoing things. I remind myself this constantly when I reach for the fish fertilizer and think about mixing some more nutes in.
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In order to grow good weed you need to be part carpenter, electrician, plumber, biologist, geneticist, chemist, and very willing to get dirty.
I've been working with power tools since I was 8, my dad is an electrical engineer who owned a 280 gal fish tank, and I studied biology with a specialty in genetics. Getting dirty comes naturally. I think my parents inadvertently trained me to be a weed grower.
See what you think on my first try.
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phrostbyte
Hydro Grower
Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 475
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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coir looks too wet to me. Though like above I am also a noob. Though I have worked with coir before and it looks too wet to me.
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 mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
 
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High 
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First of all I wouldn't be feeding them yet. And you have to know the ph of your mix and water or you won't be able to grow hydro. Last, your ph is a little high. You need to know the ph of your coir, water with a ph of like 5.8. Use the ph for hydro not soil.
Also temp and humidity are very important but I don't think that's your problem.
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Suck my balls America
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phrostbyte
Hydro Grower
Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 475
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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 Re: Fuck coir. [Re: mhbound]
#592881 - 10/19/11 09:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mhbound said:
First of all I wouldn't be feeding them yet. And you have to know the ph of your mix and water or you won't be able to grow hydro. Last, your ph is a little high. You need to know the ph of your coir, water with a ph of like 5.8. Use the ph for hydro not soil.
Also temp and humidity are very important but I don't think that's your problem.
I would have to agree with this! Feeding already is bad. You want your ph to be more like 5.5 for hydro. orangish yellow but not red. I also noticed when using the drops and actually getting a ph meter was a huge difference. What the drops read at yellow was like ph 7 when I got my meter. They were pretty far off.
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Stoneth 
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,048
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Coco coir is a hydro method.
Mhbound is right about the ph.
As well as being a little early to start feeding.
I've done tons of research on coco because I'be started my first coco grow.
It appears you can water/feed every day or every other day and water in between.
Some even choose to feed several times a day.
You should check ppm's and ph of feeding mix before feeding, and every now and then check the run ppms and ph to monitor for salt built ups.
Here's a good thread to help get you started with the coco experience.
http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/126598#126598
Hope this helps a bit.
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: Fuck coir. [Re: Stoneth]
#593027 - 10/20/11 12:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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For what it's worth. I like to start my seeds in plug trays filled with coco, I feed a 300 ppm nutrient solution at pH 5.5-6.0 once they've developed their 2nd leaf set (a bit further along than you are right now) before that I just give RO or spring water.
I also water with a syringe keeping the coco saturated. Once they out grow the plug I transfer to a 1-2 cup/250-500ml pot where I will start feeding 500 ppm nutrient solution. From here I can go to my last pot which is anywhere from 1-5gals of coco and my root system will be very strong at this container size I water with 750ish ppm nutrient solution (I've gone up to 1000-1100 but it's not necessary at all) and water several times a day.
Quote:
Stoneth said:
Coco coir is a hydro method.
Coco coir is a nearly inert soilless medium. Many people consider coco coir to be hydro or to be treated as a hydroponic method only because most people are accustomed to irrigating with their nutrient solution having no nutrients in their medium. If I were to amend my coco with worm castings, kelp, bat guano, etc it would be more like soil than hydro.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,048
Loc: No where ville, USA
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I never think about soil or amending, mainly because hydro is all I know.
And in this case his question was about straight coco coir.
But I see where you're coming and yeah I agree as well.
Is there a reason you choose to feed several times a day?
I just started using coco myself, and I'm kinda following Heads plan just to get a good grip on things.
Also how often do you flush, when feeding several times a day?
Just curious to how quickly salt built ups begin.
I prefer to stay a head on things like that.
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A To The K
Smokey
Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 219
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Fuck coir. [Re: Stoneth]
#593240 - 10/21/11 07:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well shit, I've definitely been doing my ph wrong then. Ugh, I dunno how I could have overlooked that one lol.
And they're staying pretty damp. I had 2 or so stragglers I just took out completely because they weren't worth keeping. The bottom 3 inches or so of the coir was pretty wet, but this was before they built up any roots.
OK, so noted, lower ph quite a bit...
You guys think theres any saving of these? If I take what I've learned here, and apply it to the next watering, you think they'll spring back?
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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They'll be fine just make the changes we told you.
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Suck my balls America
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A To The K
Smokey
Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 219
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Fuck coir. [Re: mhbound]
#593247 - 10/21/11 08:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Actually, I just checked them out this morning and they are perked right back up, almost not ram-horned at all. They are extremely yellow though, I'm assuming because I fucked up the pH. I can actually see growth since the last time I looked at them, so I'm assuming the nutes weren't too bad of a thing to give it (like I said, I gave it 1/4 strength, maybe even 1/8 when I think about it.)
I'm excited to fix these girls up...now if I could just figure out when to water them, I'd be all set!
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: Fuck coir. [Re: Stoneth]
#593276 - 10/21/11 11:53 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Stoneth said:
Is there a reason you choose to feed several times a day?
I just started using coco myself, and I'm kinda following Heads plan just to get a good grip on things.
Also how often do you flush, when feeding several times a day?
Just curious to how quickly salt built ups begin.
I prefer to stay a head on things like that.
I choose to feed several times a day because you're providing nutrient rich irrigation with lots of dissolved oxygen several times a day which increases growth rate since you're turning your "passive hydro" into "active hydro" since there's an active exchange of nutrient solution and oxygen. You also can't over water using this method since every time you water you're bringing in fresh oxygen into the root zone.
H3ad waters like this too, however my "formula" is modified from H3ad's to suit a wider range of plants and to avoid deficiencies (although he and other 6/9 growers claim to get none or next to none).
Every time you water you're flushing so long as you water to run off which I do each time. The the main reason salt build up occurs is watering less frequently to the point where the medium gets a chance to dry out. In case it's not obvious if you start with a 1300+ ppm nutrient solution (not uncommon for most growers) and 70% of that water is taken up by plants or evaporated you're going to be left with ~4000 ppm nutrient solution in the remaining 30% of the medium. In a case where a coco grower uses/does 1. high ppm 2. doesn't flush 3. doesn't water to run off that grower will run into problems with salt build up / overly acidic medium very quickly.
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A To The K
Smokey
Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 219
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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I always water until runoff, I was actually coming back here to ask how much runoff is too much (forgot to ask in my PM) but it sounds like any amount is fine.
Actually, I water my soil plants until they runoff too...I've learned doing it that way I don't ever get very bad burns.
If these survive, I think I'm gonna step up my staggered SOG into half gallon pots rather than the solo cup SOG I was gonna use. I have the space, I have the lighting, I have the pots...the only thing I'm really missing is the additional coir (which is what, $6 for 2 bricks? haha).
Time'll tell. Heres to hoping they spring back...and that I've got some damn females in the mix lol.
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Quote:
A To The K said:
I always water until runoff, I was actually coming back here to ask how much runoff is too much (forgot to ask in my PM) but it sounds like any amount is fine.
Actually, I water my soil plants until they runoff too...I've learned doing it that way I don't ever get very bad burns.
If these survive, I think I'm gonna step up my staggered SOG into half gallon pots rather than the solo cup SOG I was gonna use. I have the space, I have the lighting, I have the pots...the only thing I'm really missing is the additional coir (which is what, $6 for 2 bricks? haha).
Time'll tell. Heres to hoping they spring back...and that I've got some damn females in the mix lol.
People who water once every few days tend to do 20% run off. This would be roughly 20% more water than the plants need for that particular watering. If you can feed them 1litre before they spill a drop you would feed 1.2litre.
I probably water like 700 ml and get half back in run off. I'm not really aiming for this though. This irrigation strategy takes the formality out of watering, provide plenty of water rich in oxygen several times daily and it won't matter how much or little you get in run off so long as it exceeds a couple-few ounces (60-90ml).
I wouldn't water to run off in soil since soil tends to hold water to a point where it's water logged which coco doesn't. Even when coco is saturated there's enough air for the roots. When soil is saturated it's too dense without enough air for the roots.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,048
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Quote:
maryanne3087 said:
Quote:
Stoneth said:
Is there a reason you choose to feed several times a day?
I just started using coco myself, and I'm kinda following Heads plan just to get a good grip on things.
Also how often do you flush, when feeding several times a day?
Just curious to how quickly salt built ups begin.
I prefer to stay a head on things like that.
I choose to feed several times a day because you're providing nutrient rich irrigation with lots of dissolved oxygen several times a day which increases growth rate since you're turning your "passive hydro" into "active hydro" since there's an active exchange of nutrient solution and oxygen. You also can't over water using this method since every time you water you're bringing in fresh oxygen into the root zone.
H3ad waters like this too, however my "formula" is modified from H3ad's to suit a wider range of plants and to avoid deficiencies (although he and other 6/9 growers claim to get none or next to none).
Every time you water you're flushing so long as you water to run off which I do each time. The the main reason salt build up occurs is watering less frequently to the point where the medium gets a chance to dry out. In case it's not obvious if you start with a 1300+ ppm nutrient solution (not uncommon for most growers) and 70% of that water is taken up by plants or evaporated you're going to be left with ~4000 ppm nutrient solution in the remaining 30% of the medium. In a case where a coco grower uses/does 1. high ppm 2. doesn't flush 3. doesn't water to run off that grower will run into problems with salt build up / overly acidic medium very quickly.
Cool deal then, I'm actually doing things right at this point, other than I'm only watering once a day.
I think I'll set up a drip system, to change that.
I'm using Flora Duo at 9/3 veg, 3/9 flower, and staying around 600 ppm in veg, and 900 in flower.
So far so good, I think I'm falling in love with this stuff.
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: Fuck coir. [Re: Stoneth]
#593306 - 10/21/11 02:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is the duo you're referring to the Flora using only Micro and Bloom?
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,048
Loc: No where ville, USA
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No it's the new GH line.
Flora Duo A and B is a two part nute that hasn't been out long.
http://www.generalhydroponics.com/blog/2011/02/16/what-does-it-do-floraduo/
There's a link to their blog.
I haven't experience any ph issues, or seen any sighs of mg issues as of yet.
And with one N sensitive plant of mine I had to cut back to 2/1 ratio.
And she took off.
I'm using it in a drip system with hydroton, also a bubble bucket DWC, and in coco.
In coco they recommend sub-culture m and b which I don't use atm, waiting to see if it's truly needed or not.
I also use florablend, floralicious Plus, and FadidStarter, in the flowering I'll be adding in the koolblooms, and carbo load.
Can't wait til harvest day, to taste the results.
Can say it's much cleaner than the FloraNova, and I haven't had any clogged drip lines since starting using it 3 months back.
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A To The K
Smokey
Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 219
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Fuck coir. [Re: Stoneth]
#593438 - 10/22/11 08:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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A little update, I checked the girls this morning and none of them are curled under anymore, they are standing right up. Still real yellow, but of course they are. We'll see what the new growth looks like.
I gave them a light watering yesterday of appropriate pH water.
I feel so much better about this grow now haha. Thanks a ton for the help, I was really discouraged the other day.
I have a seedling from this batch I just threw under 12/12 right away because it wasn't very good looking and I had an extra cup and extra coir. Its been kinda my experimental one. I tipped the cup over today (the coir was damp so it stuck together) and the tap root was already hitting the bottom of the cup. So I have to assume the ones under veg light are doing even better 
Question - should the runoff be clear? Its got that reddish tinge to it still like the color of the coir. Makes it hard to measure the runoff.
Edited by A To The K (10/22/11 08:53 AM)
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