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 Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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 Very Sick! 
#354534 - 01/28/10 01:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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this plant is in a 5 gallon bucket with soil and i believed i have messed up on the watering somehow but i am not sure if i am over or under watered the plant does not feel mushy or dry she is just drooping very much can anyone help me?
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354539 - 01/28/10 02:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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one mor ething to add two of the fan leaves have really small holes well really tears that are yellowing just around where the tear is hope this helps!
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354540 - 01/28/10 02:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Looks like over watering to me. How does the soil feel? Stick your finger right into the soil, don't just feel the surface with your hand.
Can we see pictures of the tear? Check the underside of your leaves - could be pests.
Last but not least, please give more info. Fill this out: https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/53005
... then edit and add it to your post.
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354543 - 01/28/10 02:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Seed
2. How old are your plants? 2.5 weeks
3. How tall are your plants? 1.5-2 inches
4. What size containers are they planted in? 5 gallon
5. What is your soil mix? custom mix from rose garden
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use? every other day now but i had made a mistake with too much water
7. What is the pH of your water? no meter
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio? no fertilizer
9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? tried foliar spray for first week with carbonated water
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") 2 26W daylight CFL's
11. How close are your lights to the plants? 2-3 inches
12. What size is your grow space in square feet? walk in closet not sure of sq ft
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? 70 degrees cant tell humidity but its comfortable in home
14. What is the pH of the soil? no meter
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? no insects
16. How much experience do you have growing? first attempt
i feel like my drainage might not be sufficient because i did do the finger test and the first about 3 inches of the soil is dry and loose but as i go deeper it "feels" kind of moist my cam wont focus on how small the hole is but its a tiny hole with a slight tint of yellow around it, thank you for the help!
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354544 - 01/28/10 02:27 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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oh one more thing my plant is only about an inch or two tall but it is VERY wide probably almost 9 inches wide sorry i forgot to add that!
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354554 - 01/28/10 02:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yikes.... you got a lot of work to do.
3 inches dry? Hrmm.... I've only ever grown hydroponically so it's difficult for me to say if thats good. However, I still think you've over watered it. I know the way roots work is they grow, to reach moisture and nutes lower down - ergo, if you have too much water in your system, the plants roots can't develop properly because they don't know where to go. So perhaps allow your substrate to really dry out well. Let it sit for a week maybe? Hopefully one of the soil growers on the forum will swing by soon and give you some better advice.
There are drainage holes on the bottom of the pot right?
You definitely want to upgrade your lights a bit if you want anything decent out of this harvest. The plant would also grow and absorb water and nutes fast too, so in general I think you would see less problems. If you plan to grow more in the future, I would recommend an HPS - seriously worth it.
You need to get a ph meter. Fast. It's not a joke, you seriously need to know what the ph of your soil and water is. If a plant is outside optimal PH range it will nute-lock and either die, hermie or just turn out male. This is especially important now because your in veg. If your PH is fucked when you enter flowering, I doubt you'll be smoking anything in a few months.
Do you have a fan of some sort in your setup? An oscillating fan is perfect. Remember, not to close. Just close enough so the plant's leaves move slightly when the fan turns onto the plant.
You kinda screwed up on the soil since you have no clue what the nutrient content is. However, at 2.5 weeks I think your suppose to be feed that sucker by now no? Considering how much you've watered it, I'm sure the soil is pretty flushed. 
Also, carbonated water is not a foliar spray. Haha, that's called the seltzer tek. Keep doing it though if your willing, I think it really helps if you don't have proper air flow in and out of your grow space.
So bottom line: Until you get a better response, just leave the plant alone and keep those lights on.
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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SpaceMonkey
Mind Pilot
Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 3,471
Loc: Hawaiian Islands 
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354557 - 01/28/10 03:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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To me the soil you are using looks like it has manure possibly?
Roses also usually like a slightly more acidic soil compared to cannabis also. So if your using rose bedding chances are your ph is out of whack.
But then i see you tried foliar feeding with carbonated water. Seedling should not be feed anything at 2 and a half weeks old, much less foliar feeding at that age.
Next i would say to open up your drainage holes to about a half inch round and make sure to put at least three along the bottom edge. At 2 and a half weeks old watering every other day is probly too much for it also. It is small and young and will not use to much water right away. As the plant starts to grow and the root system expands you will have to increase the waterings but for now a good watering should last your little plant almost a week.
And then the lighting could be upped by another 2 bulbs at least. But again, as it grows the requirements will increase as well.
I think it will pull through. Looks pretty droopy right now but is a lush green color. So limit the watering, and make better drainage, check into the ph of your soil and think about getting another set of lights for your grow.
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 Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
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Quote:
SpaceMonkey said:
But then i see you tried foliar feeding with carbonated water. Seedling should not be feed anything at 2 and a half weeks old, much less foliar feeding at that age.
SpaceMonkey, it's carbonated water... he's not feeding it anything cept c02 and water. 
@ Krielow: Just stumbled across this and I think it may help you out a bit.
http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=992013
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
Edited by TomCollins (01/28/10 03:21 PM)
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SpaceMonkey
Mind Pilot
Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 3,471
Loc: Hawaiian Islands
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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ahhh, ok.
But still, with the excess watering then spraying them probly wasn't beneficial either way, just my opinion. They sound like they have been water logged from the start. But the soil I think will reveal ph problems. I grow roses and they seem to thrive in high ph soils and like it alot hotter(nitrogen) then a seedling should have.
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Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354576 - 01/28/10 03:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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wow thanks guys! the help is very much appreciated so right now on my to do list is im going to expand my drainage holes because as i have 3 they are no where near half inch in diameter (might have caused all problems) believe it or not she is actually already starting to perk up a bit as i have not watered her in about 3 days would you guys suggest me getting another pot and soil and tyransplanting her? im not trying to go for gold since this is my first time im just hoping i have osmewhere around an oz, im also going to add 2 more 26W daylight cfl's for good measure im making a trip to the hydro store probably tomorrow and im going to get the fox farm nutrients any suggestions on when i should start using them? also i have seen ph meters are around 400$ seeing as i dont have that kind of cash i found one for about 20 bucks so i was wondering if using a 20$ ph meter is bad, thank you for all the help!
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 Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354578 - 01/28/10 03:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just get some PH test strips they are cheap and plentyful. Does your soil have any nutes in it?
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354579 - 01/28/10 03:31 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i may be just being too hopeful lol but here is a pic from today (the first pic was from yesterday) yall can give me an unbiased opinion if its getting better
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354582 - 01/28/10 03:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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my soil has nutes by means of manure,burnt leaves, and some other things i believe but as i did not make the soil i can only see things that i can tell, should i start using fox farm nutes asap?
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
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Quote:
SpaceMonkey said:
ahhh, ok.
But still, with the excess watering then spraying them probly wasn't beneficial either way, just my opinion.
Fo sho.
@ Krielow:
No don't transplant. Just leave your plant alone. Make those holes bigger, get some more lights and get those PH test strips. If your going to the hydro store, I'm sure they'll have the strips your looking for. Also, be sure to buy some PH calibration solutions or powders - have to be able to fix your PH if it's off.
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354584 - 01/28/10 03:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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oh and if you look on the right most leaf you can see the tear i was talking about
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354585 - 01/28/10 03:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeap. I wouldn't worry about that tear. It's probably just from deformation in the leaves caused by a bad PH. 
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354586 - 01/28/10 03:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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My plant looked the same way a long time ago, I'm going to say that its a PH problem.
It even had the tear in the leaf 
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SpaceMonkey
Mind Pilot
Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 3,471
Loc: Hawaiian Islands
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Triptonic]
#354587 - 01/28/10 03:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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You can by cheap ph test strips or a cheap meter at most ace hardware stores. The cheaper it is the less accurate but it at least dials you in close enough. As far as the soil goes, nah leave it in there, just get yourself some ph testing stuff and get your soil tuned up.
Being you have what looks like alot of cow manure or horse manure content in that soil, i would be quite hesitant on feeding to much with the solutions at this point. I think that the manure will be sufficient to get you by in the vegetative cycle and may only need to feed extra potassium while in bloom. And by the way, that new picture you posted, The plant looks alright actually!
Edit: after getting a better look, it does look all twisted! But not to far gone yet.
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Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354592 - 01/28/10 03:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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ok so ph is the key im probably going look around town now for some litmus paper if my ph is too acidic or too basic how do i fix this? ph up and down? if so how do i use the ph up and down? also do i ph the water or ph the soil? can i use litmus paper for soil? and currently im using nestea bottled water to feed it, sorry for so many questions but you guys are on point! lol
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354598 - 01/28/10 04:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Krielow said:
ok so ph is the key im probably going look around town now for some litmus paper if my ph is too acidic or too basic how do i fix this? ph up and down? if so how do i use the ph up and down? also do i ph the water or ph the soil? can i use litmus paper for soil? and currently im using nestea bottled water to feed it, sorry for so many questions but you guys are on point! lol
1. Your hydro store will carry litmus tests.
2. PH up and down organic buffers work.
3. How you use the ph calibrators depend on whether you get powder or solution. Whatever you get, just read the instructions on the back. It depends of course how whack your PH is.
Be careful though. It's easy to add too much and throw your PH off in the other direction. Cautiously add small amounts until you hit the spot.
Also, you PH the water. Not to sure about testing litmus in soil, but I think so.
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354603 - 01/28/10 04:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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ok thank you! so if the ph buffers that i add to the water is what changed the ph of the soil what do the ph calibrators do? sorry if im asking so many questions im just trying to get this down pact exactly for the first time in a week yall have gave me the reassurance i need that this plant isnt done for lol
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#354788 - 01/29/10 01:46 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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the ph calibrators are the ph buffers. Sorry, I use both terms pretty interchangeably.
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Ok,
First off, you have a 2 inch tall plant in a 5 gallon bucket. You do NOT need to be watering every other day. That is WAY too much for that plant. It probably doesn't have roots anywhere near the bottom ofyour bucket to be able to drink the water that's down that far.
I think the first step you need to do here is top watering so often.
Secondly, like the others said, get a pH kit and check that. It is very important.
Third, don't start any nutrients. Go ahead and get Fox Farm nutrients when you go to pick up the pH test kits. It's a great nutrient for soil.
Fourth, your plants don't look that horrible man. I'd say for your first time your not doing too bad.
Good luck man.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#355216 - 01/29/10 11:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Looks to me like it was just really close to a flouro light(which is just fine actually).
I'd water it more.
I'd just water it with straight water for 7 days or so and see what it looks like then.
[EDIT]Oh ya, and first thing I always do is break up soild soil very fine before planting anything.
Roots have a hard time penetrating those thick clumps.
Edited by DoPeYsMuRf (01/29/10 11:09 PM)
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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This is really bad advice. His plant has no signs of nutrient toxicity, maybe a little heavy on nitrogen at the moment but not toxic.
Watering a plant that size in a bucket that size more is going to drown it. Very bad advice man.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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I dunno man I dont think its really bad advice. But also shouldnt he be watering towards the stem so that the roots have to go reach for the water?
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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No that would be watering away from the stem to make the roots search for water.
I have grown in 5 gallon buckets for quite awhile. And I can tell you for certain that he is over watering that plant as it is right now. To increase it would just hurt him more.
The plants I have going right now are 2 1/2 feet tall by 2 feet wide in a 2 gallon pot and I only have to water it every 3 days at the very most. They're under 2000 watts of light right now.
I can guarantee that increasing the amount of water will be detrimental.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Ya know, I didn't really read the post I kind of just looked at the pics and all i saw was dry soil.
After reading it its obviously a drainage problem because If you have good drainage you cannot overwater.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Again, bad advice.
You can over water in straight perlite, and that's the best drainage you can get. If your growing medium stays too soggy it can cause damping, root rot, and a host of other problems.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Also I've just been researching alot about about root stocks. Strains grown specifically for superior roots.
I started reading about it because one of my plant needed watered 3 times as many times as the other plants.
And from reading my intuition was correct. People actually breed plants specifically for superior root so they can graft a superior fruited plant to it.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 9 years, 16 days
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What more valuable plant would you graft to a cannabis root stock? Bizarre train of thought there...
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Quote:
hawksapprentice said:
Again, bad advice.
You can over water in straight perlite, and that's the best drainage you can get. If your growing medium stays too soggy it can cause damping, root rot, and a host of other problems.
Your absolutely right. YaH I could overwater by just running a hose on the plant 24/7.
His plant is a pretty good size and I'm sure he knows the basics of watering. Everone I bet in theyre lifetime has experienced a drainage problem Which is no means overwatering. Yes it has become overwatered from lack of drainage that makes sense.
Every morning I fill my plants till the water is in an inch in my water capture plate. The next day I do the same thing.
I used to dry it out but IME constant bombardment of water is much more effective. Of course I keep things very clean.
I have not had any bug problems ever or root rot from doing this.
To each his own. I like water and so do my plants.
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: dutc2006]
#355304 - 01/30/10 02:17 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dutc2006 said:
What more valuable plant would you graft to a cannabis root stock? Bizarre train of thought there...
A great strain that produces small buds. The roots would feed the plant better. It's well researched, only with other fruiting plants.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Dude, damping off is caused by a lack of oxygen to the root mass. Exactly what over watering does. If you over water the roots don't get oxygen, thereby killing your plant. If what your trying to claim were true you could leave the plants in stagnant water and it wouldn't be a problem. But no, when Using Hydroponic ebb and flo tables your learn that you need to drain water. Other wise it would be a whole lot easier to do Hydro
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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I never said to leave plants in stagnant water. You just keep thinking I meant that.
Having stagnant water is completely different than overwatering..
They are correlated but not the same thing.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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But increasing his watering regimen in that large of a bucket with that size of a plant will cause stagnant water.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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DoPeYsMuRf
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 645
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Yes I agree. I stated that earlier when I said I was just looking at the pictures 
That size plant in that size bucket should only be watered fully every 3-5 days depending on external factors such as humidity and temp.
I was refering to a well esablished plant for some reason. I blame the weed. But then it got into a definition argument becuase its 4 in the morning and some excitement stirred up.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Oh okay, I thought you were meaning water it every day with how big it is. Nah a full grown plant in that big of a bucket could be watered every day. Just depends on all the parameters.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Thank you for all the help everyone!!! just like you guys thought my ph was pretty acidic (4.8) i still dont have a ph meter but i am using a friends for now just to correct the problem i have also widened the drainage holes to be about 1/2" around im slowly adding ph up a little bit every day thanky ou for all the help everyone!
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#355512 - 01/30/10 03:06 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Next time around it would be wise to mix in a good amount of perlite into your soil to help with drainage. The perlite helps keep the soil from packing in too much allowing water to drain through more freely.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Krielow
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 14
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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ok i bought my own ph meter and ph up and down turns out my friends meter was very inaccurate... my soil is somewhere around 7-7.4 (i have an analogue meter) my question now is how do i get the ph of my soil down to 6.5?
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 9 years, 16 days
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Re: Very Sick! [Re: Krielow]
#356073 - 01/31/10 04:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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You need to do it gradually as to not shock the plant any more. Every increment of .1 in pH means 10X more acidic/alkaline. So water that is 6.7 is 100 times more acidic than water that is 6.9. You should test the water you were giving it to find out what pH the plant is getting used to and give it slightly lower than that. Keep dropping the pH of the water you give it until you get it to 6.5.
I wouldn't add any nutes to the water until you get the soil to 6.5 because it will just be locked out anyways and result in accumulation of salts.
Edited by dutc2006 (01/31/10 04:29 PM)
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