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 KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
 
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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 Hydro / Ebb and Flow 
#165948 - 12/19/08 09:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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Santa droped this by last night.
The tray is 4ft x 4ft. It will hold 64, 6in pots. 70 gal reservoir. I built the stand out of wood and painted it with Killz.
Originally the tray is made to fit on the reservoir. This looks cool but unpractical when needing to to change nutrient's.
Santa also left a Milwaukee, T75, waterproof TDS meter and a Milwaukee, pH51 waterproof pH-meter.
Some pH up and down.
Fox Farm - Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom and Grow Big. To feed the kids.
I have NO idea of what I'm doing. Santa I'm going to have a fun time finding out.
I do know I need 64 girls. I have made 4 clones off my 1st grow. Which will be ending in early Jan. I will start another bag seed grow. I need more girls.
I'm reading a basic hydro book. So I,ll be back with questions. Lots.
The journey has begun.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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 captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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 Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#166143 - 12/20/08 05:46 AM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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64 plants :o no fucking around
well if you're running 4 plants per square foot you should probably make sure they're all the same clone
what kind of lighting are you using for that?
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KaptKid
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I have a 1000watt MH and a 1000watt HPS to brighten the girls up.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#166285 - 12/20/08 02:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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another view, without the HPS light on. That light does make pic's yellow.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#166301 - 12/20/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago) |
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looks good  you should probably consider doing less plants until you find a suitable strain to dial in 64 plants
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KaptKid
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
looks good you should probably consider doing less plants until you find a suitable strain to dial in 64 plants
I know this is true but as a 1st timer and a believer in not wasting space. I will try to grow as much as I can. Figure some plants will go for one reason or another. Hopefully not to many from lack of experience.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#170045 - 12/25/08 10:50 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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well
you will most definately hav eproblems if u grow 4plants per sq ft without a using entirely all clones and also selecting the right stain/clone to do the job.
so really you're wasting time, space, money, potential bud if you don't do it right.
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KaptKid
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Posts: 5,615
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#170052 - 12/25/08 10:52 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Feeding the plants. Santa's helper told me 3 times a day for 15 min at a time. I don't know if thats true or not.
1st big place I need is feeding and the reservoir. Damn, 70 gal's to be changed 6 times during the 90 day grow period. Will I need a full reservoir or would 30 or 50 gallons be more likely? Thats also a lot of liquid/concentrates to be adding. Knowing how many gallons in the reservoir is going to be important to figure out how much to feed these girls.(Probably need to buy more concentrates).
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
so really you're wasting time, space, money, potential bud if you don't do it right.
You have my attetion. I know a strain that fits this type of grow would be best. I'm trying to slow down here and figure the whole grow out before doing. Just want to fill that system up.
Thanks for your help capt.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#170195 - 12/26/08 12:35 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't know a whole lot about hydroponics unfortunately. I have been reading a bit on nutrient profiling and the lucas formula/mel frank's ratio's for chemical / non organic salt nutrients such as canna, gh 3 part, advanced nutrients 3 part
Basically this article which I can dig up for you if you want said that in 10 years of growing (growing cannabis and "scientifically" testing different nutrient profiles 100-100-200-60 worked best in N-P-K-Mg format. Also 3 changes and 8 changes of the reservoir didn't effect yield outcome. More changes = less maintainence throughout the week though but slightly more cost... or a lot more cost demending on your nutrient regiment. You can spend soooo much on nutrients if you go full blown Advanced Nutrients it's not even funny I think with the conn a/b and all additives it worked out to 75cents a gal and with a simple 3part maybe epsom salts as an additive it works out to 14-19 cents a gal?
with Ebb and flow 3 times a "day" or once every 4 hours during lights on and once during lights off seems pretty typical. Standard flood time is usually 20 minutes some people do like 5-10 minutes because the tables take so long to drain. I think having your pump set for 15 or 20 minutes is fine.
Remember "nothing..(well somethings)" in MJ horticulture is static. Theres many many different opinions that are valid. I personally wouldn't want to change out a 70gal reservoir 6 times for a 1kw grow. a minimum of 40gal is recommended for a single table I believe so 50-55ish or even completely filled would be great. Your nutrient solution quality would be maintained and easier to maintain for extended periods of time, less pH swings, more nutrients availible... ect.
The grower in the article uses 3 changes including the initial first fill
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm
When my life permits(im currently not growing) I'm going to do a side by side using a simple lucas formula vs a lucas formula base with a bunch of additives/boosters to see how much better if at all the additives are.
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KaptKid
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#170506 - 12/26/08 01:34 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Fox Farm feeding schedule for hydro
That didn't do what I was planning(whats new)
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf
Maybe you can read from the website better.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
Edited by Zeplin 420 (12/26/08 01:47 PM)
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#170509 - 12/26/08 01:40 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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following instructions from mfg is definately a GOOD way to get results. you may find that it's also a good way for them to convince you to consume the maximum amount of nutrients to make them money.
it wouldnt hurt at all to follow their directions im sure.
also im from canada we dont have foxfarm up here so I have no idea about their nutrients and dont know anyone who does.
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KaptKid
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I'm sure the mfg wants to sell as much as possible.
Right now I think I can go into week 3 and 4 with just adding nutrients to the reservoir. Just guessing at this time.
I just need to do a grow as recommended by the mfg with all the same clone. This will give me a starting place to see were I need to go.
Now I got to start thinking about mothers and clones. I'm glad I've got some room.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#170550 - 12/26/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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if you go with many reservoir changes just fill it up to 40gal
magash changes his reservoir every 2 weeks and i think he just tops it off with water... his results are outstanding.
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TheShroomJew23
The Chemist
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 739
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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My budy and I were following General Hydroponics 8 part nute schedule. I had the exact same set up as you. I finally did the math after a few months to see how much we were spending per crop and it turned out to be 976.08, thats after tax. So as you can see nutrients were getting pricey. We though on the other hand were harvesting pounds every month so it didn't bother us.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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I don't know how big your set up is but if you look at the amount spent on nutrients per grow or per year it can be several thousands of dollars. This is also aimed towards maximum plant growth so less = more.
I know a guy who spends 1100$ every 2 months (worked out to what he actually uses) and his garden is run perpetually so he spends that 6 times a year.
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KaptKid
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Back to hydro.Mixing nutes.
Still need to hear from someone with experence. Will be using Fox Farm, Grow Big,Tiger Bloom, Big Bloom,Open Sesame,Beastie Bloom and Cha Ching. Doing this in an ebb and flow.
Also does anyone have experence with a Milwaukee pH51 pH meter or a Milwaukee T75 TDS meter. Looks like I need more chemicals than came with the meters. Don't want to screw these meters up. They will the most important tool for keeping the nutes right.
The hydro store is a four hour trip one way so I want to make a list of everything I need.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#182485 - 01/15/09 03:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wouldn't want to drive 8hours to buy things, order online?
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KaptKid
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Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
I wouldn't want to drive 8hours to buy things, order online?
I make a day of it. Shopping for more than this. Plus eat a nice restaurant.
I live in the sticks.Its nice to get away every now and then.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
Edited by Zeplin 420 (01/15/09 05:10 PM)
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#182520 - 01/15/09 05:16 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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That's alright then I suppose.
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Mr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#184663 - 01/19/09 07:43 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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You don't need that many plants. Trust me. You are just exposing yourself to more legal penalties and making more work for yourself.
Plants get tall and bushy very fast. Nine plants will easily fill up that tray by the time your flowering cycle is up. You only want to veg for two weeks because they continue to grow significantly during the flowering phase. You will be amazed at how quickly they grow and how big they get. They actually start to get so big that they can become unmanageable.
P.S. Be careful with 1000 watt lights. They give off a ton of heat and will easily burn your plants. You will constantly have to raise the light up to avoid this. Also, if your space is confined it will quickly heat up too. You don't want it to be 115 degrees in your area.
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Mr. Hands
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 89
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: Mr. Hands]
#184664 - 01/19/09 07:47 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Another thing....you do realize that you will have to empty and fill up the tray every two weeks? Make sure you are near a sink so you have easy access to water and to drainage. Get a pump and some hoses from Home Depot so you can easily suck water to and from your resevior.
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AKSE
Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 287
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: Mr. Hands]
#185064 - 01/19/09 09:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow you sure are a n00b if you think you need SIXTY FOUR plants to do well with a 1000W HPS!
Like the rest said, you are wasting Time, Space, Money, Potential plants & bud, just to try and go big or go home. Start smaller and work your way up so you know what you're dealing with. That many plants is going to be outrageous to take care of.
Also, if you don't have seperate resivours for each plant, if you get a contamination, or nutrient or ph imbalance, instead of having one plant get burned or sick, they all will. 
Quality, not Quantity.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: AKSE]
#185076 - 01/19/09 09:49 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
AKSE said:
Also, if you don't have seperate resivours for each plant, if you get a contamination, or nutrient or ph imbalance, instead of having one plant get burned or sick, they all will.
Quality, not Quantity.
you don't know what you're talking about... having 16 or 64 plants in that space isn't going to change anything. hydroponics is always 1 reservoir many plants... and typically people use monocultures so growth, and nutrient neeeds and such are all the same. all plants will be subject to the same factors not because of the reservoir but because theyre all the same... 64 plants will be treated like 1....
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Quote:
AKSE said:
Also, if you don't have seperate resivours for each plant, if you get a contamination, or nutrient or ph imbalance, instead of having one plant get burned or sick, they all will.
Quality, not Quantity.
you don't know what you're talking about... having 16 or 64 plants in that space isn't going to change anything. hydroponics is always 1 reservoir many plants... and typically people use monocultures so growth, and nutrient neeeds and such are all the same. all plants will be subject to the same factors not because of the reservoir but because theyre all the same... 64 plants will be treated like 1....
Thank you captain.koons
I have been doing my homework.I know the difference between Dreams and Goals. Sometimes.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#185090 - 01/19/09 10:13 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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you really can't start with 64 plants in a 4x4 area though. you need to find a plant that will finish flower and be suitable for 4plants per sq ft area.
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AKSE
Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 287
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Quote:
AKSE said:
Also, if you don't have seperate resivours for each plant, if you get a contamination, or nutrient or ph imbalance, instead of having one plant get burned or sick, they all will.
Quality, not Quantity.
you don't know what you're talking about... having 16 or 64 plants in that space isn't going to change anything. hydroponics is always 1 reservoir many plants... and typically people use monocultures so growth, and nutrient neeeds and such are all the same. all plants will be subject to the same factors not because of the reservoir but because theyre all the same... 64 plants will be treated like 1....
Hydroponics is not always one reservoir, DWC in buckets for example. Also the point of my post is, if he is new to cultivation and all, wouldn't you tend to reccommend something along the lines of a handful of DWCs, instead of a potential 64 plant ebb & flow or other? I'm just trying to stress that like you said, all plants will be treated as one, something goes wrong its all not just one. Do you not agree?
Edited by AKSE (01/19/09 10:30 PM)
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
you really can't start with 64 plants in a 4x4 area though. you need to find a plant that will finish flower and be suitable for 4plants per sq ft area.
I've been working on that. White Widow.From who ever I brought it from.
16 to 18 inch's.60 to 90 days bud time.20 to 30 grams. I'll believe it when I see it.
If I have to go SOG. NO problem.
This is a beautiful place.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: AKSE]
#185114 - 01/19/09 10:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
AKSE said:
Quote:
captain.koons said:
Quote:
AKSE said:
Also, if you don't have seperate resivours for each plant, if you get a contamination, or nutrient or ph imbalance, instead of having one plant get burned or sick, they all will.
Quality, not Quantity.
you don't know what you're talking about... having 16 or 64 plants in that space isn't going to change anything. hydroponics is always 1 reservoir many plants... and typically people use monocultures so growth, and nutrient neeeds and such are all the same. all plants will be subject to the same factors not because of the reservoir but because theyre all the same... 64 plants will be treated like 1....
Hydroponics is not always one reservoir, DWC in buckets for example. Also the point of my post is, if he is new to cultivation and all, wouldn't you tend to reccommend something along the lines of a handful of DWCs, instead of a potential 64 plant ebb & flow or other? I'm just trying to stress that like you said, all plants will be treated as one, something goes wrong its all not just one. Do you not agree?
you're diagnosing the same plant, 64 times which I'd much rather do than diagnose a smaller amount of plants. NON R-DWC without shared reservoirs isn't my style so I guess I exclude that...
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
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Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#185116 - 01/19/09 10:42 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zeplin 420 said:
Quote:
captain.koons said:
you really can't start with 64 plants in a 4x4 area though. you need to find a plant that will finish flower and be suitable for 4plants per sq ft area.
I've been working on that. White Widow.From who ever I brought it from.
16 to 18 inch's.60 to 90 days bud time.20 to 30 grams. I'll believe it when I see it.
If I have to go SOG. NO problem.
This is a beautiful place.
true white widow finishes between 8-11(shanti recommends 10 for resin production) i guess some very sativa dom phenos will finish later but 90days is pretty extreme. I'm not sure about height I don't really pay attention to what vendors say unless they tell you some figures like veg time, stretch, ect.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Quote:
Zeplin 420 said:
Quote:
captain.koons said:
you really can't start with 64 plants in a 4x4 area though. you need to find a plant that will finish flower and be suitable for 4plants per sq ft area.
I've been working on that. White Widow.From who ever I brought it from.
16 to 18 inch's.60 to 90 days bud time.20 to 30 grams. I'll believe it when I see it.
If I have to go SOG. NO problem.
This is a beautiful place.
true white widow finishes between 8-11(shanti recommends 10 for resin production) i guess some very sativa dom phenos will finish later but 90days is pretty extreme. I'm not sure about height I don't really pay attention to what vendors say unless they tell you some figures like veg time, stretch, ect.
I'm a newbie, only time will tell.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Hydro / Ebb and Flow [Re: KaptKid]
#185275 - 01/20/09 08:06 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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im just saying basically you don't know how accurate the breeders notes are white widow is like the most ripped of strain to date. it was originally made by shantibaba in 95 while he was working for or with greenhouse seed company. They had a disagreement with how the company was being run I believe and shantibaba left them and eventually started Mr. Nice seeds taking his breeding stock with him (he never shared his genetics with greenhouse seeds he just supplied them with seeds) along with white widow which is now called black widow are appearently super silver haze(still ssh), great white shark(now shark shock), white rhino(medicine man), and possibly Neville's Haze(not sure on this one)
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