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 Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 8 days, 4 hours
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 What do you all think about sugars? 
#827389 - 07/17/17 12:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Posted out here because of a desire to get actual discussion on this. The new dieting trends of cutting sugars/carbohydrates out seems interesting, so far it seems to make a decent amount of sense in the end. It has led me to thinking about sugars though a lens of thinking about legal/widespread highs in our society.
Anyone else thinking about this? Anyone have personal experience? Any input from a nutritional/biochemical perspective? Any input about what you think about our current food industry for society? Trolls just make a thread to roast me instead of derailing the threat please. 
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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 poor boy
Village Idiot
Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 16,230
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It's okay. There are much better clubs with byob policies.
http://sugarssa.com
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Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
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yoosername
Strange
Registered: 06/09/17
Posts: 777
Loc: Somewhere under the Sun
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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 Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: poor boy]
#827404 - 07/17/17 12:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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This problem is complicated, largely because people have varying experiences, or the lack thereof, but hold their own opinions in the highest regard. I used to eat a lot of junk food, mtn dew, doritos, mc dicks, etc, and I thought "what's the worst that could happen, I get fat?". Turns out it was the opposite, and I've been underweight ever since.
The FDA has been known to approve food additives that are harmful to one's health, there are studies that link these additives to an increased "risk" of chronic illness, but due to the dogma of disease theory a causal link is never established. Again, too much information to process efficiently so they make assumptions based off of what they "know" and consider the rest irrelevant.
This extends beyond the food industry, even beyond consumable goods. Anything that contacts your skin has the potential to poison you. Soap, sunscreen, deodorant, oils, metals, plastics, drugs, even the air we breathe; which is why it's so important to know what they contain.
I see a lot of pathological theories regarding various "incurable" autoimmune disorders. If they were ever found out to be true, then the anti-sugar movement would rise to a whole new level. Complex carbohydrates take longer for our bodies to break down than simple sugars like honey (monosaccharide), which gives gut microbes more time to eat it. The main problem with many westerners is the lack of diversity in their microbiome, from years of exposure to toxic substances, antibiotics, salts, and other shit with anti-microbial properties. This allows pathogens to flourish, unchecked by a normally balanced microbiota, and fueled by concentrated carbohydrate crystals. This causes inflammation which then hinders detox, perpetuating the cycle. Eventually you end up with an IBD, arthritis, or some other shit that has doctors prescribing you immunosuppressants to control the inflammation, allowing latent infections to run rampant.
Organic growers know that the best plant food is made by microorganisms, and humans are no different (okay, maybe a little), but the concept remains the same; Feed the microbes. But due to the scale and complexity of the topic, you have little idea of what you're actually feeding. You can do tests, make assumptions and get some general estimates, but ultimately there are too many organisms to keep track of, and the science is still in it's infancy; That's why you have so many people trying new things, it's the beginning of the age of information and people are finally learning how to ask the right questions.
I'm currently on the Specific-Carbohydrate Diet, which eliminates processed foods, sugars, starches, and inflammatory foods. I eat a lot of fruits, veggies, and birds, and I'm doing a lot better as a result.
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Sham87
マリオ
Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 7,516
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: poor boy] 1
#827425 - 07/17/17 05:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
poor boy said:
It's okay. There are much better clubs with byob policies.
http://sugarssa.com
I underestimated your ghettoness, goddamn man.
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...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...
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Chemical Addiction
Registered: 11/20/14
Posts: 1,681
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Sham87]
#827427 - 07/17/17 05:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I almost cut sugar out of my diet when my teeth were worse off, it literally is a drug, I craved it all the damn time, especial;ly when I wanted something to drink. Water was so off putting and milk just didn't fill the need. I'm back to eating/drinking sugar,(mostly drinking) but I still think I would be better off if I never hade been introduced to sugar.
Edit Btw I thought this tread was about the last few weeks of a flowering cannabis plant before I clicked it. I do recommend a sugar/ripening nute for that but you still need to flush well.
Edited by Chemical Addiction (07/17/17 05:10 PM)
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Sham87
マリオ
Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 7,516
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Same dude, that shit is horrible. Activates the same parts of the brain as cocaine does. Telling isn't it?
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...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...
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Chemical Addiction
Registered: 11/20/14
Posts: 1,681
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Sham87]
#827432 - 07/17/17 06:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I fucking love cocaine, and had no idea about sugar doing that, very interesting indeed.
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Sure. Don't expect me to compensate your wife and five retarded kids after I've drowned your exposed brain in my semen.
Spider Jerusalem
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Sham87
マリオ
Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 7,516
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 8 days, 4 hours
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Sham87]
#827447 - 07/18/17 12:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was hearing people talking about the interaction of peoples diet and their metabolism. Suddenly I brainblasted back to the metabolism section of my biochemistry class and was just like "oh, that makes sense." Everything exists in some two way chemical reaction in the metabolism (with a few mostly forward reactions), so the more and less you need to break down specific compounds the more your system would acclimates to that diet.
One would think we would have more straightforward answers about nutrition, but it seems like we just had a bunch of people with no idea running the academic show for awhile. My assumption is there is more than one dietary ideal when you consider all the factors at hand. All the pyramid scheme girls from highschool sure are shilling out ketogenic diet supplements, I find that a bit extreme but different strokes for different folks.
Is anyone here actually into nutrition professionally that wants to rain a knowledge bomb on us? I'm always semi skeptical of the "new fad diets."
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,039
Loc: Southwestern US 
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I was actually on a version of the ketogenic diet for about 2 months.
I did lose about 15lbs, and did feel much better (although, that may have just been from losing 15lbs). 
As far as a definitive answer to your questions about sugar, its nearly impossible given the data. There are countless studies suggesting correlations between high carb, high protein, and high fat diets (or combinations of the three) and increased risk of major health problems. Even the 'science' behind the ketogenic diet has conflicting data.
However, we do know that our consumption of simple carbs was few and far between before agriculture came about. Even then, the consumption of refined sugar was minimal (4lbs per year, per capita in 1700). This quickly rose to 18lbs per year per capita in 1800, and 60lbs per year per capita in 1900. The average sugar intake for Americans today is about 150lbs per year per capita 
The fact that our species evolved with very little sugar in our diet (far less than 1%), and now we consume over 3x the recommended average daily amount of sugar should be indicator enough that we should at least cut back on the sugar intake significantly. I prefer to take all things in moderation, rather than going too extreme in my dietary choices, which is probably why the keto diet did not last very long for me.
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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Theman
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 344
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Data]
#827521 - 07/20/17 01:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Although i agree empty sugar calories arent good. I dont like the paleo bs.. sure we eat dif then our ansestors buuut they lived to 35 not 75-100.and alot was because of food malnutrition loss of teeth because of not enough calcium.. not to mention did not grow as tall. So to me i hate that argument and paleo diet raw bs. My fav is when people by nuts foe tgere raw paleo bs saying its raw and have to inform them many nuts if actually raw are "posionous". Man is diverse ethbix groups cant digest milk well for example or native populations get diabetes easier because people who could go longer withiut food few generations ago lived and getting alot of calories now predisposes them to diabetes and actually bred to be awesome living nomadically. Point is there is no 1 diet healthier for everyone like paleo makes it seem.. aanyway sorry for side rant.
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,039
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Theman]
#827525 - 07/20/17 07:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Actually, widespread dental problems did not show up until after the advent of agriculture between 10 and 15 thousand years ago, and early homo sapiens were actually taller than we are today, with the "shrinking" of humans beginning around 10 thousand years ago, and trending downward until just recently, when the average human height began to increase again.
However, like you said, the diet that kept us healthy until 35 or 40 may not be best suited to keep us alive beyond that. It is also true that people who originate from different ethnic groups would have been "dialed in" to the macro nutrient profile indicative of the area from which that ethnic group originates. A single "diet of all diets" is a silly notion, and its funny that so many people fall for that advertisement.
Studies do not shed much light on the matter, due to the conflicting information that really depends on where the research funding comes from.
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Data] 1
#827526 - 07/20/17 09:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Data said:
Actually,
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King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends
Edited by drawde (07/20/17 09:27 AM)
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Sham87
マリオ
Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 7,516
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: drawde]
#827527 - 07/20/17 11:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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coming with them fire facts 
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...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...
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dirtyneedle
JB
Registered: 11/25/15
Posts: 235
Loc: San Francisco
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Sham87]
#827544 - 07/20/17 09:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I ingest lots of sugar 
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,039
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Data]
#827556 - 07/21/17 02:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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For those that lift or train, bro:
A common feeding technique to maximize skeletal muscle gain while training is to combine high levels of protein and carbohydrates. The most common explanation being that protein provides the building blocks for muscle protein, and the carbohydrates provide a readily available source of energy for the muscle synthesis. A more in-depth explanation is that insulin (released as the carbohydrates cause a rise in blood glucose) is a promoter of muscle protein synthesis (MPS). Thus the argument is made that diets that are too restrictive in their carbohydrate intake do not promote the necessary signalling pathways to effectively build muscle mass, regardless of activity level.
A counter-argument from extreme low-carb diet proponents is that certain amino acids (L-leucine) can replace insulin's function of promoting MPS, and thus supplementation of extremely low-carb diets with l-leucine will have the same effect as the mixed-macronutrient meal plan commonly recommended for weight lifters.
However, both sides are over-simplifying and at times are outright wrong on the subject. Changes in skeletal muscle mass are driven by the cumulative effects of both Muscle Protein Synthesis (MPS) and Muscle Protein Breakdown (MPB). Insulin and l-leucine (metabolized into HMB) are solely responsible for reducing the rate of MPB, rather than the normally advertised promotion of MPS. Sadly, the amount of MPB supression that these two compounds cause is small compared to the promotion of MPS caused by other dietary compounds. These dietary compounds that stimulate MPS are primarily a mixture of amino acids, which are all provided in any full-spectrum protein source such as animal protein, soy, or quinoa. On top of all of this, it has been shown that the promotion of MPS by nutritional factors is very fleeting (only promotes for about 2 hours), compared to the mechanical promoting factors presented by good, high intensity resistance exercise (24-48 hours of promotion post-workout), which makes all of the differences between leucine and insulin even less significant.
So, I guess from a muscle-mass perspective, you can really get there via both high carb and low carb pathways, but you have to work out 
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 8 days, 4 hours
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Data]
#827565 - 07/22/17 02:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Please excuse my scientific/psuedo philosophical continuation from here, but this is fairly related to the overall mindset I acquired from the diverse science courses my silly undergrad let me get focused on. Almost everything, with very few exceptions, we observe doesn't exist in absolutes forward or backwards directions. Everything lays in some level equilibrium, climate systems, harmonic/orbital movement, and especially chemically. Since carbohydrates, the chemicals metabolizing carbohydrates, and that regulate these systems (like insulin) are all interconnected in chains of equilibrium reactions; one can see that being able to tweak your own systems by changing your diet seems obvious.
I feel some day, probably soon(ish), we will increase our understanding of these chemical systems and our own nutritional needs (and how they are related to our genetics), and learn how to optimize diets rather soon. With the level of biochemical/microbiologic/bioengineering we're seeing, and the current tools I see us gaining (like the earlier brought up CRISPR stuff)... I don't see how we couldn't be close to some very big things. I feel like if I keep teachings, I might one day soon be teaching some of the kids that will be the first immortals of our species. Or at least those with an improved enough lifespan where, compared to human civilization, is practically immortal by our current standards... this last bit is semi-derailing. But it seems better to say this here than in the general science thread. We've always considered entropy to be what inevitably causes aging and death, but I feel like life must be able to reach an equilibrium/efficiency where that won't really be an appropriate analogy. But from that, nothing stops one from expending more energy/entropy in a surrounding system to balance the internal. Unless i have a vast misunderstanding of thermodynamics.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
Edited by Thebooedocksaint (07/22/17 05:04 AM)
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Sham87
マリオ
Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 7,516
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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why you niggaz gotta get all scientific and shit 
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...once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...
Edited by Sham87 (07/22/17 09:56 AM)
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poor boy
Village Idiot
Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 16,230
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Sham87]
#827568 - 07/22/17 09:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I quit drinking for a bit, but naturally my body craves that missing sugar I normally get from beer. Now I'm eating chocolates and ice creams everyday.
I ate 3 ice cream sandwiches last night.
--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 8 days, 4 hours
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Re: What do you all think about sugars? [Re: Sham87]
#827589 - 07/22/17 11:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wish we understood this stuff more completely already. We already know semi-surefire ways to ruin your metabolism (biggest loser), wish there were easier cheats to metabolism.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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