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 Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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 Super high Silica PH question 
#741151 - 07/24/14 11:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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For some reason the silica I'm using has developed an insanely high PH. Possibly because it's fermenting or I mixed in ph down or something that came from accidentally mixing in fish and other additives that can go bad. I'm not sure how high the PH actually is, but I tried adding 15 drops of PH down to 6 oz of straight silica and the PH solution I'm using shows its still way above a pH of 8(only shows 8+ max). I think I'd need to add about 1 oz of PH down to the 6 oz of silica to get a reasonable PH... Which is way more PH down than I'm comfortable with using. 1 drop of this silica brings 20oz of water above a ph of 8
Did my silica go bad or something that means I shouldn't use it? Should I not even bother using it if I have to use excessive amounts of PH down? if anyone happens to have experience with this or know.
Edited a correction.
It's so powerful a high PH that I could actually use the silica as PH up. traces of it turn even large amounts of water to a high PH. it's really strange
Edited by Midgetpawn (07/24/14 11:29 AM)
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 Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: Midgetpawn]
#741154 - 07/24/14 11:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nah, the stuff always has a high ph. In fact way back in the day I would use it as ph up when I was poor. (yeah stupid thing to do but it worked)
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: Magash]
#741166 - 07/24/14 02:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah mine is super high too. If Im watering with only Pro Tekt in it I have to add 10-12 drops of ph down/gallon just to get the water back to neutral.
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#741174 - 07/24/14 03:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well apparently it's not as bad if I also add cal mag to the water it's in. It still seems like the the silicas PH went up a lot since I first started using it. Still strange to me that 20 drops of PH down had no effect on the PH test results. It's so damn blue.
Thanks for the input. I was about to throw it out, but did further testing after reading these replies.
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TribalSeed
SoulJah
Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 1,699
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: Midgetpawn]
#741207 - 07/24/14 09:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I cant really add much other than to agree with Mag and Beez.
My water out of the tap is 7.0, after I add my protekt it goes up to 9.2 .
Did not know its a poor man's PH up though. Good to know for my broke ass.
Because of the silica I rarely have to use any PH buffer. It brings the ph up so High and the Fox farm trio brings it back down to where it needs to be.  got lucky I guess
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: TribalSeed]
#741212 - 07/24/14 10:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The real question is, why are you using such a small amount of water. You should be 10 MLS per gallon, depending on the brand
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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TribalSeed
SoulJah
Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 1,699
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Hawksresurrection said:
The real question is, why are you using such a small amount of water. You should be 10 MLS per gallon, depending on the brand
Me? I use a gallon.
Wait...
nevermind.
My bad.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: TribalSeed] 1
#741216 - 07/25/14 12:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm bad at quick reply
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly) 
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: Midgetpawn]
#741223 - 07/25/14 05:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Which pH down are you using? Gen Hydro is very weak stuff, whereas Advanced Nutrients' works very quickly. I'm guessing that the silica is acting as a buffer, and that your pH adjust is not reaching that point that the buffer is filled up and starts to drop rapidly as if the buffering agent is not there at all. Ca/Mg are two popular buffers, thus the resistance to pH change when adding silica. Your water composition makes it prone to such a high shift, probably not much Ca/Mg to start with.
Heres a basic comparison I made between the Gen Hydro and Advance Nutrient pH-
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Quote:
Hawksresurrection said:
The real question is, why are you using such a small amount of water. You should be 10 MLS per gallon, depending on the brand
Pro Tekt bottle says 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per gallon...that's only 2.5 mls max...is that stuff just extremely potent or should I add more than the bottle recommends? I honestly haven't noticed a bit of difference in my plants' "hardiness" since I started using it a couple months ago...
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#741240 - 07/25/14 08:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Its one of the higher concentrations of silica products out there. 2.5-5ml/gal with every feed, or 1.25-2.5ml/gal foliar. Are you just foliar spraying? you'd probably not notice as much of a difference just spraying.
I always mix the silica with water before adding it to the pH adjusted nutrients, as it sometimes gets cloudy when you mix directly--a sign that solids have formed and the silica is stuck to your nutrients instead of floating free.
Try not feeding a plant silica and then bend the branches over and see how they compare. The silica plant will bend close to the join to the main branch, whereas the non will bend along the entire stem. It makes it easier to tie to, so that the branch does not bend over at the tie point when the bud gets too heavy or too tight.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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TribalSeed
SoulJah
Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 1,699
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: phychotron]
#741250 - 07/25/14 10:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
Its one of the higher concentrations of silica products out there. 2.5-5ml/gal with every feed, or 1.25-2.5ml/gal foliar. Are you just foliar spraying? you'd probably not notice as much of a difference just spraying.
I always mix the silica with water before adding it to the pH adjusted nutrients, as it sometimes gets cloudy when you mix directly--a sign that solids have formed and the silica is stuck to your nutrients instead of floating free.
Try not feeding a plant silica and then bend the branches over and see how they compare. The silica plant will bend close to the join to the main branch, whereas the non will bend along the entire stem. It makes it easier to tie to, so that the branch does not bend over at the tie point when the bud gets too heavy or too tight.
I follow the 2-2.5 ml rule. I do notice the hardiness, both in veg and flower
One thing though....I have been adding 2ml every time I water. Feeding and just watering. I have not had any negative affects that I can see, and honestly my plants can take a beating and keep on ticking if ya catch my drift.lol.
Should I stop using it every watering? I seen a post from ya awhile back hyping about it, and I got me some. I could have swore in the post you made though you said you used it with every watering, but I am wrong most of the time.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#741257 - 07/25/14 11:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bEelzeBosS said:
Quote:
Hawksresurrection said:
The real question is, why are you using such a small amount of water. You should be 10 MLS per gallon, depending on the brand
Pro Tekt bottle says 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per gallon...that's only 2.5 mls max...is that stuff just extremely potent or should I add more than the bottle recommends? I honestly haven't noticed a bit of difference in my plants' "hardiness" since I started using it a couple months ago...
Reinforces my point. Are you adding that to a gallon of water and it's raising the pH super high?
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: phychotron]
#741273 - 07/25/14 01:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
Its one of the higher concentrations of silica products out there. 2.5-5ml/gal with every feed, or 1.25-2.5ml/gal foliar. Are you just foliar spraying? you'd probably not notice as much of a difference just spraying.
My bottle says 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per gallon of water or nutrient solution. It says 1/2 to 1 tsp for recirculating hydro systems. Im growing in soil and in coco so Ive been following the 1/4 to 1/2 directions...I usually use 2-2.5 ml per gallon with every watering and feeding. Ive never tried foliar feeding my plants anything.
Quote:
Hawksresurrection said:
Reinforces my point. Are you adding that to a gallon of water and it's raising the pH super high?
Yes. Then I bring it back down with ph down when watering only, or nutes plus a smaller amount of ph down when feeding.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#741279 - 07/25/14 02:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well if it's a huge issue for you, switch brands, or just keep adding pH down. I don't really see a problem. A lot of nutrients on the market raise or lower the pH considerably. Roots being notorious for it, which is why I dumped them as as soon as I tried them.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Its not a problem, I just havent really noticed anything positive from using it. I was just wondering if maybe people were going way above the recommended dosage on the bottle to achieve better results.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#741284 - 07/25/14 03:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's only used to make the plant hardier.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#741301 - 07/25/14 09:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I use it every feed, unless I forget. I also use coco so I feed all the time. Seems strange adding just silica to water when watering the plants, maybe that's why its so high up there. When I use plain water its to flush. Also, not sure the exact range of pH uptake but it might be too high of a pH for the plant to absorb it. It sometimes takes awhile before you start to notice the hardening of the branches. The hydro store tried to sell me a new silica product that "showed results in two days not thirty like all the rest." not sure what it was cause I'm only concerned with the end of flower when the buds are weighing down the stalks and keeling over.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: phychotron]
#741314 - 07/26/14 05:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
Which pH down are you using? Gen Hydro is very weak stuff, whereas Advanced Nutrients' works very quickly. I'm guessing that the silica is acting as a buffer, and that your pH adjust is not reaching that point that the buffer is filled up and starts to drop rapidly as if the buffering agent is not there at all. Ca/Mg are two popular buffers, thus the resistance to pH change when adding silica. Your water composition makes it prone to such a high shift, probably not much Ca/Mg to start with.
Heres a basic comparison I made between the Gen Hydro and Advance Nutrient pH-
That makes more sense if it's a buffering effect
I'm using GH. NIce comparison. Not sure I mind if the PH goes down slower, but it would be a problem if there are other side effects that come from how much GH vs AN you use. I'm so baked I hope that makes sense.
Do you think it's bad that my silica now has about 1ml of GH PH down in it?
BTW I have a personal theory that spraying silica directly could potentially be bad and trap heat. I first thought that silica was meant to coat the leaf but it's actually taken in the roots and shit happens on a cellular level. I know it's very watered down, but still wouldn't a coating of silica on the leaf be bad?
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Super high Silica PH question [Re: Midgetpawn]
#741316 - 07/26/14 06:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You get the best absorption through foliar feed, and it goes more directly toward the leaf rather than the stem, if memory serves me right. You might want to wash it off occasionally if your doing it a lot, but a basic spray or two will not cause any problems that I know of. I would not foliar spray once the buds start to show up, just in veg and early flower. The fatter cell walls will help it combat heat.
It can be tough using AN's pH- because it works so rapidly sometimes, and if your not mixing up a lot of nutrients you'll find it works a bit too fast to pinpoint the pH sometimes. I don't know how much the pH adjust has an effect on the plant, but I tend to stick with the least amount possible--however the amount of 'work' that they put in the nutrients solution energy wise should be about the same in order to bring the pH to a specific point.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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