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 Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal 
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 On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd.   2
#705435 - 01/08/14 10:07 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've seen a lot of fear happening over watering your plants with tap water. That fear is unfounded and silly so I wanted to share my thoughts.
The chlorine in tap water from municipalities is generally dosed at a rate to keep water sanitary after a major treatment plant. That means that they dose the Chlorine in at very small quantities to kill a couple tens or hundreds of bacterial cells per mL of water. Compared to the TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of cells in your organic tea and soil it will have little to no effect. Chlorine isn't an unstoppable killing machine, after a very small amount of contact with bacteria the ionic gradient is reduced to the point of inactivity.
From the CDC website; Quote:
Other disadvantages of hypochlorites include ...[sic]... inactivation by organic matter....
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Good soil should be at least 30-50% organic matter, which means that the chlorine will be inert literally within seconds after contact.
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#705469 - 01/08/14 11:06 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was on some 25i the other day and I hopped into the shower and could smell the chlorine very strong. It was almost like taking a shower in pool water, but I was trippin and had some enhanced senses. It made me want to at least let it sit for a day or two before using it but because I have a non-recirculating tank it does that naturally.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#705471 - 01/08/14 11:11 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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 This thread was moved from Soil & Organic Nutrients.
Reason:
For better viewage.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#705487 - 01/08/14 12:11 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been growing for around 10 years now. I have always used tap water, now my tap does come out at 10 ppm, but have never had issues with it.
The only time I think people really have issues due to their tap water is when it has high starting PPM.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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 TribalSeed
SoulJah
Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 1,699
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Hawksresurrection]
#705497 - 01/08/14 12:41 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for posting Harry! I was at walmart about 45 minutes ago looking at their RO machine (doesn't really seem like an RO machine) and the zerowater water filters. I was going to get the zero water, but hell after you buy so many filters and the pitcher itself, its really not as efficient as it would seem (i.e. Cost effective).
My tap has 149ppms every time, its high, but I am trying to work with it so I can tweak nutes and stuff like that. I have been looking at RO machines online, but damn they are expensive and there is so much runoff waste that it would cause a spike in my water bill.
I'm gonna stick with tap and make it work someway. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks again Harry for the post and the helpful wisdom!
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: TribalSeed]
#705504 - 01/08/14 12:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Something to note, if you're getting a reading of 149ppm TDS from your tap, that's not going to be Chlorine, it's going to be dissolved solids such as calcium, iron, magnesium etc which are very important to your plant. If I'm not mistaken, it's a very rare municipality that stocks their water with anything more than 5ppm of Chlorine.
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#705508 - 01/08/14 12:59 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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150 is where I'm at and its about perfect, plenty of cal/mg. It sucks drinking it but the plants seem to like it. An 4 stage RO system cost ~$130 brand new on ebay.
People who use well water might have some concern for their water source, as it can become contaminated with bacteria.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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BubbaGump
Stranger
Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 96
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: phychotron]
#705515 - 01/08/14 01:24 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I usually always let my water sit overnight but ended up using a gallon straight from the tap that didnt sit o
ut a few weeks ago, only difference i noticed was a white spot on a fan leaf the next day.
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TribalSeed
SoulJah
Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 1,699
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: phychotron]
#705538 - 01/08/14 02:42 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Harry_Ba11sach said:
Something to note, if you're getting a reading of 149ppm TDS from your tap, that's not going to be Chlorine, it's going to be dissolved solids such as calcium, iron, magnesium etc which are very important to your plant. If I'm not mistaken, it's a very rare municipality that stocks their water with anything more than 5ppm of Chlorine.
I have looked at the water company's site and read the water tests that have been done and like you said, not much chlorine at all. One thing tho, it says chlorine and chloramine. Is that from switching over to chloramine or do they put both in the supply now?
Quote:
phychotron said:
150 is where I'm at and its about perfect, plenty of cal/mg. It sucks drinking it but the plants seem to like it. An 4 stage RO system cost ~$130 brand new on ebay.
People who use well water might have some concern for their water source, as it can become contaminated with bacteria.
I have found the ROs on ebay, but I am also including the filter prices as well, and how much water I use each time...etc. The cost doesn't really seem worth it. I think a lot of my problem was having 149ppms and then using CalMag on top of it. Same here about drinking it, tastes horrible.
Quick question, will PH down add too much ppms to the water or is that just a PH thing that doesn't affect the ppms?
Before I spend any money on anything I am going to get my feeding under control and use plain PH'd tap water for a while to see if it messes with them in anyway.
Check out my growlog to see the issues I was having.
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,057
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: TribalSeed]
#705562 - 01/08/14 04:36 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Science triumphs once more   I've always used tap water on my plants and never had any problems (at least from the tap water  )
Nice post Harry!
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Data] 3
#705566 - 01/08/14 05:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've grown for over 30 years and only the outdoor gardens in the boonies got spring water everything else has been tap water. Some have had 150ppm some at 5ppm and it all works the same.
In other-words I've yet to hear "gee wiz Magash I'd really like your bud but if it wasn't for that chlorine aftertaste"
I have already more then proven the "organic taste better then chem grow" is nothing but utter bullshit. The tap water thing falls into that category.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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TribalSeed
SoulJah
Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 1,699
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Magash]
#705582 - 01/08/14 05:47 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
In other-words I've yet to hear "gee wiz Magash I'd really like your bud but if it wasn't for that chlorine aftertaste"
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fortheloveofnature
noob
Registered: 11/18/13
Posts: 110
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Magash]
#705595 - 01/08/14 06:31 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
I've grown for over 30 years and only the outdoor gardens in the boonies got spring water everything else has been tap water. Some have had 150ppm some at 5ppm and it all works the same.
In other-words I've yet to hear "gee wiz Magash I'd really like your bud but if it wasn't for that chlorine aftertaste"
I have already more then proven the "organic taste better then chem grow" is nothing but utter bullshit. The tap water thing falls into that category.
thanks for clearing up the myths out there
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Gymnopilus Luteofolius Gymnopilus Purpuratus G.luteofolius&G.luteoviridis
  
First grow (bagseed)
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Magash]
#705663 - 01/08/14 09:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TribalSeed said:
Quote:
Harry_Ba11sach said:
Something to note, if you're getting a reading of 149ppm TDS from your tap, that's not going to be Chlorine, it's going to be dissolved solids such as calcium, iron, magnesium etc which are very important to your plant. If I'm not mistaken, it's a very rare municipality that stocks their water with anything more than 5ppm of Chlorine.
I have looked at the water company's site and read the water tests that have been done and like you said, not much chlorine at all. One thing tho, it says chlorine and chloramine. Is that from switching over to chloramine or do they put both in the supply now?
That's from the switch. They might do both or just one of them, but it's really irrelevant as far as cultivation is concerned.
Quote:
TribalSeed said:
Quote:
phychotron said:
150 is where I'm at and its about perfect, plenty of cal/mg. It sucks drinking it but the plants seem to like it. An 4 stage RO system cost ~$130 brand new on ebay.
People who use well water might have some concern for their water source, as it can become contaminated with bacteria.
I have found the ROs on ebay, but I am also including the filter prices as well, and how much water I use each time...etc. The cost doesn't really seem worth it. I think a lot of my problem was having 149ppms and then using CalMag on top of it. Same here about drinking it, tastes horrible.
Quick question, will PH down add too much ppms to the water or is that just a PH thing that doesn't affect the ppms?
Before I spend any money on anything I am going to get my feeding under control and use plain PH'd tap water for a while to see if it messes with them in anyway.
Check out my growlog to see the issues I was having.
Generally pH adjusters won't have any impact on your TDS, because ppm readings come from total dissolved solids (hence, TDS) and pH adjustment solutions are just ionic adjusters of chelated H+ or OH- ions, which aren't technically considered solids.
Quote:
Magash said:
I've grown for over 30 years and only the outdoor gardens in the boonies got spring water everything else has been tap water. Some have had 150ppm some at 5ppm and it all works the same.
In other-words I've yet to hear "gee wiz Magash I'd really like your bud but if it wasn't for that chlorine aftertaste"
I have already more then proven the "organic taste better then chem grow" is nothing but utter bullshit. The tap water thing falls into that category.
Exactly. It won't have any impact on the microbial life in your soil (which IS important when growing organic), and it sure as shit won't change the flavor of those buds!
I also agree with you on the organic vs not organic debate. Perhaps I'll have to type up a sizeable post showing that Hydro plants and soil plants eat the exact same shit from the exact same source. The only difference between organic and not is how heady your dreads are, brah.
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hamloaf
Biometric Precursor.
Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Back in the USSR.
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. [Re: phychotron]
#705729 - 01/09/14 04:43 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think a lot of my problem was having 149ppms and then using CalMag on top of it.
Quote:
Something to note, if you're getting a reading of 149ppm TDS from your tap, that's not going to be Chlorine, it's going to be dissolved solids such as calcium, iron, magnesium etc which are very important to your plant.
This is why I don't add and calcium and magnesium to plants watered from the tap. I find that calcium and magnesium additives aren't necessary unless plants are being watered with reverse osmosis water.
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TribalSeed
SoulJah
Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 1,699
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach] 1
#705759 - 01/09/14 09:50 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said:
This is why I don't add and calcium and magnesium to plants watered from the tap. I find that calcium and magnesium additives aren't necessary unless plants are being watered with reverse osmosis water.
You know what they say about hindsight.lol. I think I was just so nervous to fuck something up that I missed a lot of obvious issues I was creating.
Quote:
Harry said:
That's from the switch. They might do both or just one of them, but it's really irrelevant as far as cultivation is concerned.
Generally pH adjusters won't have any impact on your TDS, because ppm readings come from total dissolved solids (hence, TDS) and pH adjustment solutions are just ionic adjusters of chelated H+ or OH- ions, which aren't technically considered solids.
.
That's really scientific, but I do understand in the way you explained it. I know what the PH should be, but I don't nessacarily know what its made up of, i.e. the biological part of it. I need to really brush up on my biology.lol. Thank you for the replies Harry!
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: TribalSeed]
#706751 - 01/12/14 07:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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One last quick bump. Hardly a scientific study here, but it does support my point. http://www.ext.colostate.edu/ptlk/1548.html
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Farmer Joe
Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 1,707
Loc: USA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#706844 - 01/13/14 06:52 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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what are your thoughts on the impact chlorine has on beneficial bacterias that are added to nutrient solutions?
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"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal
Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Farmer Joe]
#706846 - 01/13/14 08:08 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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You mean something like Mayan Microzyme from Humboldt nutrients?
I think the point still stands. You'll certainly lose a few to chlorine (that's what it's for, after all), but the mechanism of sterilization for chlorine is to bind to the microorganisms (chlorine has a negative charge, so it works in a very similar way to an acid sanitizer). Once it binds to a bacteria and immobilizes it, the chlorine is no longer free to do ANY more sanitization. I just checked and my municipal water is 0.05ppm chlorine. When cultivating soil colonies you're shooting for trillions upon trillions of cells (good soil should be well over 50% bacteria and fungi by weight), so I would think the impact even in nutrient solutions would be very very minimal.
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SacajaGanja
Beer
Registered: 01/31/12
Posts: 89
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach] 1
#706848 - 01/13/14 09:39 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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 Cheers fellas, just wanted to stop in and try to catch a few words of wisdom.
~Skunk
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hamloaf
Biometric Precursor.
Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Back in the USSR.
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: TribalSeed]
#706886 - 01/13/14 02:48 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TribalSeed said:
Quote:
hamloaf said:
This is why I don't add and calcium and magnesium to plants watered from the tap. I find that calcium and magnesium additives aren't necessary unless plants are being watered with reverse osmosis water.
You know what they say about hindsight.lol. I think I was just so nervous to fuck something up that I missed a lot of obvious issues I was creating.
Yea, nah. I just know better than to add calmag to tap water is all. Don't be so anxious. Control your emotions. Calm down, do your research and plan - plan - plan before you grow.
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Farmer Joe
Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 1,707
Loc: USA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#706890 - 01/13/14 03:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Harry_Ba11sach said:
You mean something like Mayan Microzyme from Humboldt nutrients?
Yes exactly that. I use an's voodoo, tarantula and piranha for beneficials though. I still bubble out the chlorine from my rez days before i water or mix up nutes. I always wondered how necessary it is.
Now i know!
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"Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal
Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.
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hamloaf
Biometric Precursor.
Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Back in the USSR.
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Farmer Joe] 1
#706894 - 01/13/14 03:27 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, if bubbling the water isn't necessary for the dechlorinization of the reservoir water (in theory), then bubbling the water is certainly beneficial for the oxygenization of said water.
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: hamloaf]
#706899 - 01/13/14 04:18 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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The guy from Canna told me not to run an air stone through the nutrient solution because it changes the chemistry, water would not normally have a 70% nitrogen solution pumping through it. My tank stays nice, non-recirculating.
They also told me not to over do it on the microbes, as they compete for nutrients when in large numbers.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: phychotron]
#707161 - 01/13/14 10:31 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
The guy from Canna told me not to run an air stone through the nutrient solution because it changes the chemistry, water would not normally have a 70% nitrogen solution pumping through it. My tank stays nice, non-recirculating.
They also told me not to over do it on the microbes, as they compete for nutrients when in large numbers.
Is he aware that atmospheric air IS 70% nitrogen? So like, if you run an airstone through an aquarium pump then that makes him a giant idiot?
You want a bit of air pumped into it to cultivate aerobic bacteria, anerobic bacteria are usually the bad shit (at least when it comes to hydro reservoirs and soil...for the most part).
As for the microbes competing for nutrients, this is true. But then some will die, and the population will restore to normal. It's just like if there were 10,000 lions and 100 gazelles. 9,990 lions would die of starvation and the gazelle population would stabilize after a brief decline. As I've said before, soil in nature is anywhere from 50-75% bacteria, fungi viruses and nematods by WEIGHT. Think about what that means for a second. You would have to put some SERIOUS work in to over colonize a soil.
I used to think Canna really knew what they were doing. I just lost a lot of faith in them.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#707167 - 01/13/14 11:15 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just gotta laugh, you guys are fucking great I love you guys. Microbe this bacteria that. Air bubble this air stone that. Man you fucking crack me up.
I put tap water in the res. I mix my nutrients (Fox Farm for soil even though it's hydro. I like the numbers better. Tiger bloom for flowering with the Fox Farm bud boosters. GH Bud booster when I'm to lazy to go to the store to get the Fox Farm boosters) and adjust the ph. I don't have any problem keeping up with anybody else in yield, taste or any other category that has to do with growing.
   
This is basic nutrients, dixie cups filled with lava rock for your front yard, plastic liner and wood.
  
YOu guys are great 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: On the topic of chlorine in tap water and the effect on the microbial herd. (moved) [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#707171 - 01/13/14 11:53 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Harry_Ba11sach said:
Is he aware that atmospheric air IS 70% nitrogen? So like, if you run an airstone through an aquarium pump then that makes him a giant idiot?
Um, that was the point. The 'air' balance in the water gets disturbed because air is not normally bubbled through water in nature, it reaches a natural equilibrium point. But now with a bunch of elements in it that can react with the abundance of dissolved air. If you want to oxygenate the water just get a waterfall pump and run it for a minute or two once or twice a day, but not too much. Also, bubbling air through your nutrients can introduce bacteria; one of the reasons you want to keep a lid on the tank.
We were not talking about soil when discussing microbes, where your more dependent on organic breakdown. The microbes are in the coco already and don't need to be introduced into the system. They are the basic microbes to keep the medium safe, but with hydro your giving the individual elements directly to the plants, the microbes have nothing to break down and feed to the plant. The zym and rhizotonic keep the root zone clean. Its why they don't have a microbe product despite the trend to add one.
I just mix and fill my tank up. Its only 5 gallon so it doesn't really get stagnant. The dropping of water from the tip of the hose to the hitting of the top of the coco will aerate the water enough.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Edited by phychotron (01/13/14 11:54 PM)
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