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I'm in Canada and cant get hydrogaurd anymore, any packages seem to get held at the border. I like the product and have about 20 ml's left. The thought crossed my mind that one could keep the bacteria alive by growing it out on agar, isolating the bacteria and making a liquid culture out of it for a perpetual root inoculate. If anyone has any thoughts on this experiment please leave a reply on why it would or wouldn't work.
Registered: 06/09/17 Posts: 768 Loc: Somewhere under the Sun
Last seen: 11 hours, 24 minutes
Re: Can you grow the bacteria bacillus amyloliquefaciens in hydrogaurd on a plate of agar? [Re: Nephedryn] 1 #844539 - 04/19/20 04:26 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)
Seems like it could work, and yeah I don't think you're allowed to send live cultures internationally from the US. Otherwise I'd recommend southern ag family friendly fungicide, as it's the same thing but more concentrated.
I wonder how well an actively aerated compost tea setup would work for expanding the culture...
Registered: 08/12/08 Posts: 4,035 Loc: Southwestern US
Re: Can you grow the bacteria bacillus amyloliquefaciens in hydrogaurd on a plate of agar? [Re: yoosername] 1 #844549 - 04/19/20 03:14 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)
It looks like B. amyloliquefaciens is very similar to the model B. subtilis, so much so that it was uncertain whether they were separate species until 1987.
Here is a pdf detailing various growth media for B. subtilis culture. I'm sure any of these culture mediums would also work for B. amyloliquefaciens. Notice that at 37oC, your population doubles every 30 minutes. If you know the bacteria density of the hydroguard, then you can determine the initial population of the LC solution, and figure out the culture time needed to reach hydroguard density. Although in all honesty, I would mix and sterilize the growth medium, inoculate and incubate at 37o for 3-5 days to ensure all of the medium is used up, then pop in the fridge for a few days more to ensure sporulation occurs, which will allow the culture to be stored for a longer time.
Not sure if you are doing hydro or soil, but with soil, you could always mix a certain percentage of your last harvest's soil into the next crop's soil. It would effectively seed the next soil mass with the beneficial microbes from the previous batch. Might be a cheaper alternative to Liquid Cultures and whatnot.
Even with hydro, you could take a small bundle of thin rootlets from your last harvest, chum them up in a osmotically neutral solution with a blender or something, rough-filter out the bulky leftovers, and use a tiny amount of it in your res for the next crop.
Best of luck, keep us updated!
-------------------- “The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
Registered: 04/18/20 Posts: 3 Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Can you grow the bacteria bacillus amyloliquefaciens in hydrogaurd on a plate of agar? [Re: yoosername] #844550 - 04/19/20 03:40 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)
That's what i'm assuming too, to note though on the Canada website (and maybe i'm understanding this wrong) it looks like they granted the registration for the sale of Bacillus amyloliquefaciens, although maybe just a certain brand or something. On large scale, maybe more studies are needed into how introducing bacillus.a could effect all the other microbes found in soil. But for my small scale hydro setup i don't see any issue.
Registered: 04/18/20 Posts: 3 Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Can you grow the bacteria bacillus amyloliquefaciens in hydrogaurd on a plate of agar? [Re: Data] #844551 - 04/19/20 03:58 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)
Quote: Data said: It looks like B. amyloliquefaciens is very similar to the model B. subtilis, so much so that it was uncertain whether they were separate species until 1987.
Here is a pdf detailing various growth media for B. subtilis culture. I'm sure any of these culture mediums would also work for B. amyloliquefaciens. Notice that at 37oC, your population doubles every 30 minutes. If you know the bacteria density of the hydroguard, then you can determine the initial population of the LC solution, and figure out the culture time needed to reach hydroguard density. Although in all honesty, I would mix and sterilize the growth medium, inoculate and incubate at 37o for 3-5 days to ensure all of the medium is used up, then pop in the fridge for a few days more to ensure sporulation occurs, which will allow the culture to be stored for a longer time.
Not sure if you are doing hydro or soil, but with soil, you could always mix a certain percentage of your last harvest's soil into the next crop's soil. It would effectively seed the next soil mass with the beneficial microbes from the previous batch. Might be a cheaper alternative to Liquid Cultures and whatnot.
Even with hydro, you could take a small bundle of thin rootlets from your last harvest, chum them up in a osmotically neutral solution with a blender or something, rough-filter out the bulky leftovers, and use a tiny amount of it in your res for the next crop.
Best of luck, keep us updated!
Hey this is some good information for both soil and hydro thanks my friend. I'm running a 4 site 5 gallon RDWC hydro setup in a 5x5x6.7 grow tent, 1000w dimmable HID, GH flora series. Hydrogaurd gives me pristine white roots wall to wall filling the entire bucket, i'm sold on the bacterial addition to the rez. I decided to go ahead and inoculate a few agar plates as an experiment to try and save the culture. Ill get some pics going on the experiment, from start to finish (agar innoculation-> LC) ill use the home made culture on a fresh grow and then compare the root photos from my last grow in a side by side comparison. If the results speak for themselves ill make it into a tek or something for a perpetual homebrew root innoculant. Although i wonder if its technically a copyright infringement, i feel like you cant copyright a bacteria and the process is different.
Registered: 10/06/16 Posts: 344 Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: Can you grow the bacteria bacillus amyloliquefaciens in hydrogaurd on a plate of agar? [Re: Nephedryn] #844997 - 05/14/20 10:03 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)
in general folks always say salt ferts kill ur hurd. SO how effective is inoculating your hydro? I mean we have seen side by sides and most peopel find myco products help even in hydro. however maybe its because new spores hyphae have to constantly be added vs soil....havent seen much documented stuff or any real science studying CFUs etc.
but if live at all one would think myco would have a full life cycle. i really dont know or maybe they just die off in hydro slowly..
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