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 Macky
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Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 57
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 Re: First grow  [Re: Theman]
#826492 - 06/17/17 05:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Into week 5 now I think, haven't had much to update. After last post it stopped responding and wilted, I fully flushed with ph 6 water and started to slowly up the feeding after that, at 1/2 strength 2ml/gal at the mo, runoff is around ph 5.5-6. Still on canna a+b nothing else other than a tiny bit of raw silica the other week before the flush. Will start using that again soon.
Still going slowly but she's hanging in there. Looks like there could be a deficiency (want to say nitrogen?) and the tips of leaves keep poking downward. Humidity is between 45-55, temps range between 25-29C depending on the day. Sometimes I switch off the extraction and leave the zip door open with oscillating fan on to stableise temps on hotter days. Giving more regular feeding now as she seems to stop responding after 3-4 days.
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phychotron
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly) 
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Re: First grow [Re: Macky]
#826509 - 06/18/17 02:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would give it a full strength feeding next time. Canna is very forgiving. It looks good other than needing some food.
Something like Rhizotonic will help develop the root zone and overall plant health. An enzyme product will keep the root zone clean so the nutrients you feed will be more accessible and will make it easier for the water to soak in properly. Big Time Enzyme is what I use with good results.
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Macky
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Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 57
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Cool, I'll have a look at those, what about the raw silica, you think I should keep using it?
I've checked my local water and it's classed as moderately soft with 35mg/l of calcium and 2mg/l of magnesium. You think it's worth adding some cal mag too?
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 Theman
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Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 344
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: First grow [Re: Macky]
#826561 - 06/19/17 11:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Does the raw silica dissolve?
Silica cant hurt some debate on level of effectiveness. Does raise ph so can use for that. The way I look at it is if plants use so much silica wouldnt the coco have decent amount? Soiless mix have perlite which is silica... silica in nature is basically insoluble or glass would disapper and beaches wouldnt be sand as silica is the least soluble common element on earth. Some plants like horsetail do have silica. Silica is generally stable isotopically so doesnt even exchange O2 ie can do stable isotope readings on 50thousan year old silicious diatomes. Furthermore silica is utilized more in grass tyle plants like monocotyledon ie 1 seed leaf and mosses amd the like that live on rocks where there is a reason why they want to break down sand and rocks.. speculation. Sorry for rant.. anyway use it if you have it. Next time can just add diatomacious earth and perlite and see if you notice a difference. Dont use to much or inhale glass lol jk..
Since not really much science it sort of appears it has similar action as SAR and probably functions similarly.by Causing damage reaction in plants. But dont think anyones figured it out ezactly. Evidense it does work particularly in corn or bamboo type crops. Which like horse tail sorta makes sense as animals dont like chewing sand...although native americans uses horsetail as a toothbrush.
You can still use calmag as having 25ppm is low and not sure if using nutrients that have ca in them?? If not 150ppm of calcium i think is about normal range for hydroponics so adding more is cool.
Edited by Theman (06/19/17 11:40 PM)
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funky
Smoker
Registered: 10/13/14
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Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: First grow [Re: Theman]
#826562 - 06/20/17 02:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Diatomaceous earth works. I use it if I notice the branches sagging to much. It thickens the stems and not just the main stem even the stems in the buds . I'm not a big fan of smoking stems so I don't use it much. To much will cause lock out issues. good luck
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Macky
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 57
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Re: First grow [Re: funky]
#826568 - 06/20/17 10:53 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input guys, some food for thought on the next grow, might get a little experiment going then. Don't worry about the tangent theman it's cool.
The silica makes the water a tad cloudy and forms some grit on the bottom, still haven't added it in, not really sure the best way to go about it, either spray it or add it to the water when feeding. I've read quite a bit on people raving about it so thought I'd give it a shot, apparently it's good for pests and I've had a lot of them on some of my chillis and herbs recently.
So I took phycs advice and upped the feed and she's looking better today.
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Theman
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Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 344
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: First grow [Re: Macky]
#826620 - 06/21/17 08:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ahh ok so you dont have the soluble silica. What you have is just diatomaceous earth esp since says good for pests  25 kg bags are 15 bucks at seed and feed just fyi for next time.
Dont have to use that diatomaceous earth every water or even every feed. Few times will be lots and can sprinkle on surface. If you use to much it will clog up the surface and make it harder to water.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,050
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: First grow [Re: Theman]
#826666 - 06/22/17 07:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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The raw silica is 60 to 70% soluble. Can be used folar or root. It's also Ph neutral. It can be used right up to flush.
I personally wouldn't use more than 1/4 teaspoon per gallon with feed and 1/32 teaspoon. per gallon in Folar spray.
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Theman
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Registered: 10/06/16
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Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: First grow [Re: Stoneth]
#826670 - 06/22/17 09:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ahh just checked website and its not soluble as its diatomaceous earth. Says its suspendable.. where did u come up with that number its 70% soluble? Again diatomaceous earth is same as ant dust or added to animal feed or used ro clean up oil/chem spills.and is not soluble well not more soluble then beach sand. Please dont post misinfo there mr mod everything insoluble doesmt change water ph soluble silica is acidic so that should be ur second clue. Lol me thinks u got suckered and dont want to believe u bought DE for waay to much money and just feel 60% dissolves lol.. man i wish i could sell u a kilo for 80 bucks...
Diatomaceous earth or raw silica can be sprayed on leaves which may help a little in bug control but wont be absorbed. And u do not want to spray that on your flowers so just clearing tgat up!! Can add to watering forsure if u want. Prob best just to use as amendment instead of watering with it.
Edited by Theman (06/22/17 09:47 PM)
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,050
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: First grow [Re: Theman]
#826676 - 06/22/17 11:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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You got me this time. I should have checked my sources first. Also note I'd never Folar feed any plant passed the third Week of flowering.
Quote:
RAW Silica contains 45% Silicon Dioxide which is the highest concentration of silicon dioxide available t-o the home gardener. RAW Silica is flowable and suspend-able in water and naturally available to the plant. Since RAW Silica is a natural form of silicon dioxide, it is PH neutral and does not cloud when added to water. RAW Silica can be used during all stages of growth and bloom for optimal stem and cell wall strength. It is a beneficial supplement to all feeding schedules. Works in conjunction with all nutrient and feeding programs./quote]
Quote:
Diatomaceous Earth. Diatomaceous Earth is a silica hydroxide sedimentary rock , is amorphous, (which means it does not have a definite crystalline structure and is therefore not a mineral) is a porous, earthy chalk like mineral, composed primarily of the remains of silica skeletons of diatoms./quote]
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Macky
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 57
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Re: First grow [Re: Stoneth]
#826731 - 06/24/17 08:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ahhh! Thanks for clearing that up guys. I was really confused about the solubility as they say it's non cloudy and soluble and also say it's suspendsble in water, however it is ph neutral which I've checked. To be honest i should have looked into it more and done some research.
After using it it does look like it's got a coating over the leaves and they've got the faintest shine to them, definitely going to experiment with and without on my next run. I added juuuust under 1/8th of a teaspoon to a gallon.
So it looks like it's taking off now just for reference I've added to the base nutrients per gallon;
1.5ml shogun calmag, was a bit dubious about using it as it has added nitrogen and iron and the store didn't have anything else. (Wasn't sure if it works well with canna nutes)
0.5ml cannazym might up to 1ml next feed
2ml rhizotonic
Decided to add the silica once a week
The very tips of a fan leaf look like they got burned so I think I'll reduce calmag to 1ml.
Other than that she's not looking too bad since last week. Still some things to sort out climate wise.
I have it about 15" away from the light, you can see the leaves slightly curling up, there's been a few hot days so I'm wondering if it's the response from heat stress or adding the calmag.
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Theman
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 344
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: First grow [Re: Macky]
#826752 - 06/25/17 12:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorta looks deficiency there. Ur ph good still i guess is looking better eh.
Just curious how you have been mixing ur nutes? Mix a and b then add water. Calmag into a and add water?
All cal mag will have nitrogen its epsum salts and calcium nitrate. Nitrate gicing that nitrogen. Its standard in hydro nutes and why hydro nites come in 2 part formulas. Calcium nitrate in micros would react if mixed together in concemtrarion.
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Macky
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 57
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Re: First grow [Re: Theman]
#826755 - 06/25/17 03:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Duh  yea that's obvious now you say it. You will have to bear with me as I'm clueless.
The method of mixing is gallon of water, add a, then b, cal mag, cannazym, rhizotonic, ph down.
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KenInVic
Tuk U 4:20/24/7/365
Registered: 06/04/17
Posts: 132
Loc: 3rd Rock from the Sun 
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 Re: First grow [Re: Macky]
#826762 - 06/25/17 11:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Theman
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/16
Posts: 344
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: First grow [Re: KenInVic]
#826780 - 06/25/17 05:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok just wanted to make sure u were mixing directly into large amount of water. And no cloudy precip forming.
You prob dont have to mix cannazyme until large plants in flower.
Not sure what rhizotonic is about but imagine mycoryz type product. Again once innoculated shouldnt need it more then few times. Also be sure to dechlorinate your water as often has enough chlorine to kill alot of the bennies. Best is let sit out overnight. Do not use fish dechlorination products.
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KenInVic
Tuk U 4:20/24/7/365
Registered: 06/04/17
Posts: 132
Loc: 3rd Rock from the Sun
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 Re: First grow [Re: Theman]
#826786 - 06/26/17 08:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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You might have to use chems to remove chlorine if the local water supply is using chloramines to do their water purification. It doesn't gas off like standard chlorination. The better products remove the chlorine and the resulting ammonia by-product of the process.
At least that is my understanding as it goes from information I have gathered from cultivation sources, as well as from my old fish tank days.
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Macky
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 57
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Re: First grow [Re: KenInVic]
#826937 - 07/01/17 09:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't usually let water sit out, if i do it's only for a few hours, always make sure it's luke warm though. I've herd mixed things about letting chlorine evaporate, yea I've herd it depends on the type of chlorine added in drinking water, also does anyone know the toxicity levels of chlorine for plants per litre of water?
So I'm switching to flowering today, she's showing a bit of nitrogen toxicity I think judging from the curling of the leaves.
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funky
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Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 195
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: First grow [Re: Macky]
#826945 - 07/01/17 01:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It looks like a mobile nutrient problem, how much runoff? You can probably just up the runoff and be fine or you could run a few quarts of r.o through her then follow it up with fresh nutrients. It doesn't look bad tho. Chlorine will turn her a bronze color . Hope that helps
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Macky
Stranger
Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 57
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Re: First grow [Re: funky]
#827155 - 07/08/17 06:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks man, I usually water to 20% runoff, I flushed and gave a light feed. I've started to leave the water to sit out over night and looks like it's responded quite well to it, also I think I've been watering too acidic so might explain some issues.
First week of flower is over, I burnt it a little mid week after not paying attention to my measurements, thought it was a gallon but turned out to be 3 litres!
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funky
Smoker
Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 195
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: First grow [Re: Macky]
#827211 - 07/10/17 03:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dam she is bushy! Looking good don't sweat a little tip burn . She looks pretty green too so you could probably cut back a little on nutrients (make it weaker) . But don't cut back on watering tho. I will increase my runoff to 50% very few waterings just to keep the media clean .
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