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Welcome to Sirius and Pipesmoker's Elf first grow log, in which we'll be following the growth of Sagarmatha's Matanuska Tundra, Greenhouse Seeds' Arjan's Haze #3, Mandala's White Satin, and Critically Smashed, a freebie strain from Dr. Chronic. Nothing but pleased with both Dr. Chronic and Seedbay as far as shipping is concerned, Dr. Chronic very stealthy. Its the first indoor grow for both of us, and its a relief to be making this after months of dreaming and reading multiple cultivation forums with an obsession. A little about the strains for those not familiar, Matanuska Tundra is an indica that is said to develop very dense buds, have a great creeper high, and the possibility of a phenotype that smells and tastes like chocolate. Arjan's Haze #3 is a Haze with something from Laos that produces a plant with sativa characteristics in a shorter, more bushy package. White Satin is said to be a hybrid with a soaring, uplifting high. Critically Smashed is a cross between Critical Mass and White Rhino. We also have a single, two to three year old seed of a mystery strain. We also received Sam the Skunkman's Original Thai Haze x Skunk #1 as freebies from Seedbay, but will hold off until next time to germinate these.
Germination occurred on the 10th, in the evening. Seventeen rock-wool cubes were soaked in water that was adjusted to a pH of 5.8. Two of the feminized Arjan's Haze #3 were planted, and five each of the Matanuska, White Satin, and Critically Smashed. The mystery strain was placed in a moist, folded up cotton disc, since it is so old and closer observation will be necessary in case it will need help in sprouting.
Temperature for the first couple days was around 27°C/82°F, with a relative humidity around 50%. We applied more water, about a couple mL for each cube, in the area around the seed when it seemed necessary. I became concerned with having the humidity that high and have since kept the doors to the cabinet open, which brought it down to around 20-30%. In the evening on the 12th, we finally managed to nigger-rig our fluorescent fixtures in the cabinet (although without the reflector), which was just in time, because when checking the cubes the next morning, we noticed that one of the Arjan's Haze had pulled itself and the seed hull up in the air. Meanwhile, the mystery seed has cracked itself open and is starting to emerge. We've been lifting the fluffy bits of rock-wool covering the other seeds and most of them have cracked and some have nearly popped out of the rock-wool.
Now that the fluorescents are running, the temperature has risen to around 29°C/85°F and the humidity has dropped to 10% or lower. The rock-wool cubes we used are around 7cm, so we're preferring to keep the air dryer and water the area around the seeds more often, to limit the possibility of mold or fungus on the rest of the cubes. The fluorescent fixture consists of four, 60cm, 18w grow-lux bulbs, with 6400 lumens all in all.
Our main growing room has not been set up yet, but we will begin doing so in a couple days, the process of which being documented here as well. We have a floorspace of 1.7m x .85m (roughly 5ftx3ft) and a height of 2.9m/9ft, which should help with growing sativa dominant strains as well as helping keep heat away from the plants. We'll be running a 600 watt HPS lamp inside of an air-cooled cool-tube. The floorspace is a little less than optimal for the 600 watt, but the adjustment to a longer room was made to better fit our plans for the different strains we're running, and the trade-off from a more optimal light to space ratio should be worth it. The amount of light the HPS produced while testing was definitely stunning, and the ballast runs nice and quietly.
We have an in-line extractor fan for the ventilation, as well as a smaller vent fan that will help bring air into the room. The incoming air will be filtered in an effort to avoid a spider mite infestation. The extractor fan was not noisy at all, when I had figured it would have been. We have a basic carbon filter (crazy how heavy the damn thing is), and the room will be sheeted with panda film.
The plants will be grown in coco. We have 4 liter/1 gallon pots to transplant into once the larger rock-wool cubes have become filled with roots, and a final destination of 16 liter/4 gallon pots. Considering our room's setup, we've planned on having about eight to ten female plants that will be flowered. The plants will be allowed to pretty much grow naturally with little training, unless necessary. We have Atami Coco A and B for nutrients, as well as their PK 13/14 and Atazyme. We also have an individual bottle of calcium and one of magnesium just in case a deficiency of either might arise (hopefully the amount of trace elements in the coco-specific nutes will cover it).
So, in the next couple days, we should see most (hopefully all) of these seeds sprout and start their life cycle. Sitting next to the cabinet, gazing in at the sprouted Arjan's Haze #3 while stoned, feeling the fluorescents and imagining how cool it will be to sit there like that and see them transform (and, of course, document it all here for everyone ) is a great experience.
This will be updated when necessary, and all additions will be edited into this post (Edit: Ran out of room to edit into this post, so newer updates continue on page four), to help keep everything organized and efficiently accessible to those who haven't followed along since the beginning. All thoughts and constructive criticism welcome! Thanks for stopping by!
*Update*
Still the same day in which the log was created, about seven hours later. We took a couple quick pictures to show that we hung some mylar up in the cabinet that we picked up from a flower lady. I wouldn't recommend getting mylar from them because they seem stubbornly adamant about selling you flowers as well.
After putting the mylar in, the temperature shot up to around 31°C/88°F. We brought in the oscillating fan and its back down to 28°C/82°F. The first Arjan's Haze, AH #1, has risen more, the seed hull has fallen off and the cotyledons have opened. AH #2 has sprouted from the rock-wool as well now, and this one isn't carrying the seed shell like the first. After peeking at the other rock-wool cubes, it seems apparent that, when we wake up in the morning, we should have a few more sprouted, from every strain. Every seed has been categorized with a simple system, just the strain initials and a number, to help keep better track of different phenotypes for potential breeding purposes.
*Update 7/14*
This morning more seeds had sprouted as expected, and through the course of the day more have shown up as well. Arjan's Haze is definitely leading the way, followed by three White Satin, three Critically Smashed, and one Matanuska Tundra. CS #1 required a little bit of surgical assistance though, as the taproot had grown out the side of one of the ridges in the rock-wool. Apparently the plant was having trouble lifting itself up? Anyways, its straightened out now and hopefully it'll have better luck. After checking underneath fluffy bits of rock-wool, it is definite that every seed has started germinating and it is a matter of a day or two before everything will have sprouted. The three year old mystery seed had cracked open enough to be planted in a rock-wool cube as well, so hopefully it will sprout too.
The rock-wool cubes we have came with a big round hole in the middle of them, possibly because we bought bigger cubes than we should have, which is why they are turned upside down. When we soaked the rock-wool cube for the mystery seed, I tore up pieces of an unused cube to fill the holes underneath to avoid any problems the hole might provide. We also have propped the cubes up closer to the fluorescents. The way in which we had to nigger-rig the lamp fixtures is preventing us from simply moving the lights closer, but hopefully tomorrow we'll have what we need to change that, as well as being able to get the reflector on there as it should be. Other than that, it should be pretty quiet for the next couple of days, just time to wait for all of the seeds to finish germinating and then to begin putting together the grow room.
Here's a shot of the first true leaves on AH3 #1.
A closeup of the first Matanuska Tundra (MT #2) to emerge to the surface.
And, finally, three lower-quality pictures of all of the cubes, six cubes in each picture.
Update 7/18
Well, its been a few days now, so its time for an update. Once this baby hits page two, the updates will be posted in a new reply as well as added to the main page, so regular followers won't have to wait for all of the pictures on the first page to load to get the update, and people who stumble across it later will still have the efficient convenience of it in a concentrated dose.
First things first, the day after the last update, the fluorescents were properly installed with their reflector, and jerry-rigged in such a way that they can be easily adjusted. This has certainly directed more light where it needs to be. Temperature increased slightly with this, but the oscillating fan was adjusted to keep the temperature steady, still hovering at 30°C/86°F, with the humidity staying around 20%.
The two Arjan's Haze #3 were the first to sprout, and #1 in particular is the most developed seedling of the bunch. The first is a little more stretched than the second, as it spent more time after sprouting with the seed hull on. A similar thing happened with White Satin #4; the seed hull was on longer and it is slightly more stretched than the rest.
Here's a couple shots of AH3 #1:
AH3 #2 has a little bit of discoloration on its cotyledons. This has been observed on the cotyledons of some of the other plants, but absolutely nothing of the sort on any of the true leaves. Two thoughts that come to mind is that it has been a week since most have sprouted, and perhaps it is a sign that the nutrients are beginning to become exhausted from the cotyledons and it will be time to begin feeding soon, or possibly that there has been some burning from the lights, although this wouldn't make much sense, as the true leaves are closer and there is no sign. If anyone knows more about this, input would be appreciated.
Onto the White Satin. All five have sprouted and are quite vigorous, and growth has been pretty uniform and consistent amongst all five seedlings.
The Critically Smashed, overall, seem very healthy and are pretty much sharing the same consistency in growth as the White Satin. Only four of the Critically Smashed can really be considered to have sprouted, however, as we have had problems with one of them, CS #5. It was found with the taproot out and the cotyledons having begun emerging from the seed hull, but unfortunately a spot a little below them on the stem looked quite pinched together. We're not sure how this could have happened, as we've been very careful handling them. Possibly it was having trouble pop up and that point was especially weak? Anyways, it was propped up and supported and half the seed hull gently removed, but so far no real sign of improvement. Nonetheless, the other four are doing just great.
Today Pipesmoker Elf made a great discovery! Looking underneath the rock-wool cubes, she noticed that most of the seedlings have adventurous taproots that have exposed themselves. So, here is a couple examples, our first root porn, jail-bait style.
Well, that's all of the great news. Now, unfortunately, its time to cover some of the more unfortunate news.
Matanuska Tundra has been performing dismally so far. Only one of them have sprouted and seems pretty weak, one of them kind of has sprouted but has a lot of problems, and the other three have cracked with a taproot that has emerged and, from there, seems to have just stopped growing. We've heard a couple reports before of bad germination rates with the Matanuska, and with our environment seemingly right and the other strains performing quite beautifully, it definitely seems to be problems with the genetics. First, a picture of the one that managed to sprout on its own, MT #2:
It sprouted a couple days after most of the seedlings did, but when it did, the true leaves were already developed, which wasn't the case with the other seedlings. However, it has been growing slowly, and now there is a problem with its cotyledons. At one point, all the seeds that hadn't yet sprouted, this one, and the Critically Smashed with the aforementioned problems were elevated with something underneath to get them closer to the light in an attempt to help them out. They didn't get checked after that for a longer period than usual, and these rock-wool cubes dried out a lot more, so with the decreased distance between the cotyledons and the bulbs, we're thinking they just got burned on the edges, but perhaps it is something else?
The other one that has shown at least more "progress" than the rest is MT #5. We found it with the tap root out from the seed hull, the cotyledons almost completely out of the seed hull, but for some inexplicable reason (it definitely wasn't from handling), the tap root had actually become separated from the rest of the seedling, just a little ways underneath the cotyledons. A close look at both ends and there didn't seem to be any kind of fungus or rot or anything like that. It just looked completely normal, beyond the fact that it was in two.
The seed hull was removed gently and the cotyledons placed above the surface with as much of an effort as possible to keep the rest of the stem/root secure in the hopes that it will start growing down. When we checked today, it definitely appeared to have grown further into the rock-wool, but then later, it looked like the cotyledons tried to raise themselves up and open a bit, and this caused it to become "unrooted", since it just wasn't anchored well enough to be capable of moving like that.
Here's a picture of the cotyledons above the surface, the color seems to look worse in the picture than it actually does, for the most part its green. Not a lot of hope for it, but it'll get every chance it can get until its finished.
If the rest don't sprout, we'll just attempt to germinate the last five seeds. We've contacted Sagarmatha to see if we can find out if the strain has special needs that aren't being met, or really just some kind of explanation on the matter...
All in all though, we're more than satisfied with how everything is going, which definitely seems to be quite well! The taproot on the mystery strain has been growing more in the rock-wool and the seed hull slowly becomes more cracked, so in the next day or two I'd expect to see the cotyledons emerge. Beyond that, we're taking care of some work in the grow room to get it ready to be set up, tomorrow the panda film will go up, and everything else after that. Transplanting the healthy seedlings into coco shouldn't be more than a few days away, especially considering how vigorous these roots are.
Any input or guidance on everything would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for reading!
Update 7/24
Last night all the potential ladies were transplanted! The roots on all of them were covering the bottom of the rock-wool cubes, begging to be immersed in coco. Eleven 3.4 liter pots were filled with coco a couple of days before and were flushed with tap-water in the bath-tub for quite some time. Two Arjan's Haze #3, five White Satin, and four Critically Smashed made the move. The two Matanuska Tundra that made it aren't ready to be transplanted yet. One of the Critically Smashed that was having serious problems was removed, and the other three Matanuska Tundras were disposed of after we found them full of white squishiness. The mystery strain has sprouted successfully, but the cotyledons aren't looking very healthy.
After firing up and calibrating the pH meter, we ran an initial run-off test, with the tap water at 7.3, and all the pots had a run-off pH in a range between 6.6 to 6.4. After some experiments to figure out the best way to approach adjusting the pH of the coco down, we got it down to two rounds of flushes, in the end bringing the run-off of the pots to the range of 5.6 to 5.4. After that, the plants were happily transplanted into the pots, and each plant received its first dosage of nutrients, a quarter dosage of Atami Coco A & B.
Most of the plants have been showing signs of needing a good dosage of nutrients. We've been concerned that its either been a nutrient deficiency, likely magnesium, or perhaps signs of heat stress. Underneath the fluorescents, temperatures had remained pretty constant at 30°C/86°F. Up until coming to their second week without showing any signs with the temperature remaining the same, though, it seems more likely that they just started getting hungry. Tomorrow I'll be taking more detailed pictures of some of these signs to throw up in Doctor's Diagnosis and at another site to get some other opinions. Nonetheless, we've been working to bring the temperatures down, and right now its been hovering around 26°C/79°F, which is working closer towards optimal anyways.
After transplanting them, the plants went back underneath the fluorescents. Fortunately the pots manage to all fit underneath the fixture pretty well, because we went to some great efforts to get their 600 watt HPS lamp going, to no avail. After hanging panda film in their intended area, the cool-tube couldn't be installed, due to the fact that the ceiling and walls are essentially solid rock. No access to the proper tools to work with the stuff. We then tried installing it in a wooden cabinet that was about 2m tall x 1m x .5 m, with the extractor fan pulling eight times the volume of air in the space every minute through the cool-tube, but temperatures on the floor wouldn't drop below 33°C/91°F. We then went back to the room where we installed the smaller grow area, rigged up a way to hang the cool-tube (it wasn't easy, talk about improvising ), and ran it with all different ways of bringing in and extracting air, but couldn't get the temperature below 32°C/90°F. The main problem was that the ambient temperature was already in the eighties, so no real margin to work with. The plants will love the spectrum of the fluorescents more anyways until we can hopefully take care of the ambient there before they can't stay underneath the fluorescents any longer.
So, let's close this up with a few pictures. Here's the four Critically Smashed, enjoying their new home:
Four of the five White Satin:
The two Arjan's Haze #3 on the left, and the other White Satin on the right:
AH3 #1, working on its third set of true leaves:
The two Matanuska Tundra:
And here's two pictures of one of the Critically Smashed, one closer up, of what appears to be a micro-nutrient deficiency. Much better pictures will be taken later, to clearly see what is happening with these ladies...
Hopefully the first dosage of nutrients will help them out, otherwise it'll be time to take another look at the pH of the coco and possibly bump it up to a half dosage of the recommended dosage. Thanks for reading!
Update 7/27
Tonight the plants were watered. The water was adjusted to 5.8, and they were given a half-strength dosage, up from a quarter last time. The plants had a few days for their roots to grow out from the rock-wool cube and into the coco, and the ladies themselves have shown signs of growth meanwhile. The problems with deficiency haven't really gotten worse, and they were probably stemming from problems with the rock-wool cubes. Next time we germinate, we'll be planting the seeds straight into the coco. It should be a better environment for germination, as well as making it easier to manage pH and watering. A lot of the ladies have begun showing their fourth set of leaves, and tiny stipules are showing on the two Arjan's Haze #3. Adding the half dosage of nutrients, with some magnesium and calcium (also coming with other trace elements), now that the roots should be exploring the coco, should definitely knock it up a notch.
All of the plants together have been giving off a subtle but pleasantly noticeable smell of pot plants, very refreshing!
Here's the two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
And the five of Mandala's White Satin:
No pictures of the Matanuska Tundra right now, but the one is coming along all right, and the other smaller one is, well, really really small. Still alive and growing, though. Sometime soon, when the fluorescents are free from these ladies, most likely, we'll attempt to germinate the last five of the Matanuska. I have a feeling we'll have better success keeping them in coco, as opposed to the rock-wool cubes. I think the rock-wool cubes this last time through were carrying too much moisture inside of them, and although this didn't affect the other strains, since they grew very fast, the Matanuska Tundra seeds just take more time to germinate, and the same amount of water in the rock-wool affected them more adversely. Anyways, they could just be bad seeds, and the coco will tell us that for sure.
Thanks for checking!
Update 8/01
Time for a quick update. It has been a few days and the plants were ready for some water and some feed. Temperature has remained pretty steady, around 26-27°C/78-80°F, with an exception for a few hours where the temperature climbed up to 32°C/90°F. The next day we noticed the leaves felt a little dry and what could best be described as little wrinkles in the middle of some of the top leaves. I'm assuming this would be a sign of resulting heat stress? There have been little areas on some of the leaves across the board with some discolorations and little variations in shapes of the leaves, but it is pretty insignificant and is probably due to issues with the rock-wool cubes inside the coco. This should become less and less of a problem as the roots colonize the coco and the plant finds more consistent pH and moisture levels. Definitely won't be using rock-wool again when all you need is coco.
The plants show noticeable signs of growth even throughout one day, with little leaves developing in the notches between the stems of the leaves and the main stem. They are definitely developing a beautiful, more distinct aroma, some plants more than others. We're thinking they will remain underneath the fluorescents for another week before they are introduced to the HPS.
The one Matanuska Tundra that is alive is showing some signs of the bumpy road it has been on. The other tiny little runt didn't make it, but it wasn't really growing anyways. Since the Matanuska Tundra was kind of on its own and separate from the more consuming, routine maintenance that the other eleven take, it has been neglected a little more and treated a little more rough. One day it had drooped over from becoming too dry, but sprang right back up after being watered. When it showed signs of needing nutrients some time ago and I was feeling a little too lazy to start adjusting and measuring out stuff for it, it was just given a full dosage of nutrients from a bottle intended for something else. Today it finally showed some signs that it might have been a little too much for it, so it was flushed. Its showing signs since of growth. If it makes it, it makes it, if it doesn't, it doesn't, but its kind of a lab rat for us, being subjected to harsher extremes to see how it responds so we can learn from it. Sagarmatha Seeds responded to our questions about the low germination rates we had compared to the other healthy strains, and they have graciously offered to replace them directly.
On to the pictures! First, a couple that were taken two days ago, the first of Arjan's Haze 3, phenotype #2, and the second of White Satin, phenotype #3:
The full image of the eleven ladies before they were watered tonight:
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
The five White Satin:
We were just marveling at the difference after just three full days in the size of the plants after posting this update.
If you notice carefully, the rows are in a different order, but it is the same plants in each row. After each watering, we move each row forward underneath the fluorescents to make sure they all get equal light over time, since, obviously, the spot in the middle receives the most light.
The next two and a half months should be fun!
Thanks for following!
Update 8/04
Not too much new, but its been three days and the plants have been watered and fed again, so its time for some pictures. We bumped the concentration of the coco nutes up a notch and added some of the Ca and Mg as well. We're experimenting with doing some nutrient profiling of what we are working with, so later we'll have some data on that and a way of getting a better idea of how much nutrients to give them. Right now it seems like they aren't getting enough, but we're continuing to increase the dosages incrementally and let the plants tell us what they need.
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
The five White Satin:
Going to start work on getting the HPS running finally, so hopefully the temperatures will be manageable and we'll be able to start introducing these babies to some HID light.
Update 8/07
Well, a few things have been happening, and the plants were fed and watered a little while ago, so its time for an update.
A few of the top leaves had a little bit of some burnt tips after the last feeding. After taking a closer look at the formulas used, it seems that it was a Calcium deficiency, resulting from there being an imbalance in the Calcium-Magnesium ratio. There was a little bit less Ca than Mg, when its typically best to aim towards twice as much Ca as Mg. I've read that, generally, about 60ppm of Mg is optimum, and we had it at about that level, but the problem is that the bottle of Ca has some nitrogen in it as well, and it makes it more difficult to keep proper proportions between everything. An idea is to use some of the P/K booster, with less of Coco A&B, to leave more room for the N to be cranked up with the Ca. I'm tired of seeing small signs of Mg deficiency, damn it!
In the meantime, though, we just gave them 1mL/L of Coco A and B, as well as 1mL/L of Atazyme. Somehow, we completely forgot that we had it. The label says its natural, multi-enzyme stuff that should help increase nutrient absorption, enhance root activity and plant growth, stimulate micro-organism activity, and reduce chances of over-fertilizing. Hopefully it will work fine.
The 600 watt HPS is up and running, in a temporary setup, that is allowing the ambient temperatures to be controlled, so the temperatures underneath it are manageable. The cool-tube is about 16 inches above the tops of the plants, with an oscillating fan blowing across the area in between, and the temperature is staying around 29-30°C/84-86°F. Not perfect, but perfectly acceptable, and it is pretty much the temperature they have been at underneath the fluorescents. They are being slowly introduced to the HPS, increasing it a couple hours a day, to get them used to the intensity, and also to give them the continued advantage of the fluorescents' light spectrum. Here's a picture of them, underneath the HPS, after they were watered today:
Here's the signature group shot and individual shots of the plants. A few more days and I don't think it will be possible to keep going with this formula, considering how much they are growing. I'll post the three other group shots first, three days between each one, to give a perspective on how quickly they've been growing:
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
And the five White Satin:
Thanks for checking in; great to see you back, Annom!
Update 8/10
Thought it might be nice to make another update, this one a little more picture-orientated, as opposed to boring old typing.
We watered the plants today, after only two days, instead of three. Despite what Inverted says about them looking textbook healthy , there are slight problems with some of the leaves, but I think it could be chalked up to "still dialing in the nutes". Watering/feeding more frequently is an initial step to see if it helps the matter. I really think the problem is with Mg/Ca though, and next time I'll be prepared to do a more radical approach to the nutrients to try to cure it.
The plants are still growing vigorously, without stretching. Running them underneath the fluorescents for this long, I think, is really making all the difference, but its definitely time to start weaning them off, and these huge fan leaves that are developing are just begging for the HPS light, and the leaves growing in the internodes for its intensity, so they are spending more and more time with it. Hopefully, in about a week, it'll be time for a transplant (the roots are starting to show up in the drainage holes and can be seen while peaking between the side of the pots and the coco) and some 12/12. We're dying to see some buds forming!
First, here's the group shot from when they were watered:
Thought we'd try something a little different this time, and take side shots of all of the plants, back underneath the fluorescents (with them turned off, of course, to get good quality pictures ):
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
The five White Satin:
Here's another shot of White Satin #3, to show how fucking huge its fan leaves are getting:
And another shot of White Satin #2, to show some of the leaves that have six leaflets:
Here's an interesting shot of Critically Smashed #1. One of the main leaves developed with its left half mostly yellow. Now, one of the smaller leaves that has developed from the internodes has the same exact thing going on, except it is on the right half. The only explanation that I can think of for this is genetic mutation.
And, the last shot, a close-up of Critically Smashed #4, the first and only plant thus far to develop alternate nodes. This became apparent almost a week ago. Very curious why the anomaly....
Thanks for checking in, kudos to those who've given some sign of life.
Update 8/13
Gotta keep moving with the documentation. Not too much new, but a lot of pictures. The plants were watered twice in the last two days; the first time, they were flushed before being fed. What looks like nutrient burn began to appear a couple of days ago, bringing us to try some new things with feeding. After doing some analysis, it seems most likely that it was due to having too much Calcium. The Arjan's Haze #3 are looking the most worse for wear. This is thought because the leaves started going lime green at the edges, with the burnt spots (too much calcium locks up magnesium), and also due to the discovery that the label of our Bionova Calcium had a typo (1% CaO on the label, whereas it was intended to be 15%), meaning we were giving it far too much calcium, trying to keep it at the right ratio with the Magnesium. The first watering, we applied an accurate dosage of it with the dosage of magnesium. Today they were given a regular dosage of A&B (up to 1.5mL/L) and a dosage of Magnesium, absent the dosage of calcium, after the magnesium lock-out didn't improve from the day before. The thought is that the tap-water probably has a lot of calcium. I think we're starting to get everything dialed-in as far as this goes; can't wait for the RO to not have to guess about the tap-water.
Still alternating between the HPS and the fluorescents, for them to keep benefiting from the blue spectrum, as well as the light intensity that they need from the HPS. Hopefully in about a week, preflowers will start to appear. Most of the plants are working on their seventh set of nodes right now. In about a week, we'll be able to take our first shot at cloning, as well, as the side-branches are really growing.
Here's the group shot from the last watering:
AH3 #1
AH3 #2
CS #1
CS #2
CS #3
CS #4
WS #1
WS #2
WS #3
WS #4
WS #5
Thanks for checkin'!
Update Day 6 Flowering
Its been awhile, so I guess we should update this thing. The plants have been on 12/12 for six days now and are really working on their stretch (all of them are over a foot and a half right now). The plants have been suffering through some problems with the older growth getting burnt on the edges. There was an initial onset around the time they received an overdose of calcium due to the mislabeled bottle, and we've been working to figure it out and try out different things to stop it. It hasn't stopped yet, but it doesn't spread nearly as fast as it first did. It seems to be a compound problem, likely due to magnesium deficiency, too much salt buildup in the coco, something with the roots, who knows, because they don't seem to be responding too well to anything we try to that end. Starting to work with foliar spraying just this morning, and tonight the coco is going to be flushed like crazy again... Anyways, beyond the edges of some of the older fan leaves getting some burning, the plants seem to be pretty healthy, and all of the new growth on the side branches shows absolutely no problems.
Preflowers had started developing before the light switch, and as of right now, seven are confirmed female, three are unconfirmed, and one of the Critically Smashed was a male, that is no longer of this world. We took some clones from it a couple days ago, before it got chopped up, as we've never cloned and are seeking to build some experience with the essential technique. We tried three without a dome over them and three inside plastic domes, to see if it would be necessary to work with humidity domes, as some people have success without them. The three without wilted overnight, and the other three seem to be doing just fine. Tonight we'll be taking some more clones from some of the confirmed females.
That's pretty much all there is to it. Really looking forward to bud production; hopefully we can solve the problems with the old growth. Here's some pictures of all the plants. Thanks for checking in!
awesome man! It's good to see you guys getting started! That HPS is like a mini sun, surprised the shit out of me when i ran mine for the first time. I knew it was going to be bright, but not that bright
-------------------- "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
Totally . I was planning on trying my hand at the Arjan Haze #3 on my next grow. I'll defiantly be keeping my eye on this one to see how it progresses.
Uns4ne, we'll definitely give you everything you'll want to know about the man's Haze #3. Everyone else, thanks for checking in!
It is definitely great to know now that every seed has split without problems. It is especially a relief with the Matanuska Tundra, as I have read a couple reports of bad germination rates with them, and they were definitely the most expensive seeds in the group. More than that, we are really just intrigued by the strain and want to see what happens, especially since there aren't so many reports on it out there.
Hopefully tomorrow we'll be able to start building the grow room. Can't wait to fire up the HPS.
Updated. Everything is going great, beyond the trouble we're having with the Matanuska. A couple of different things that someone with a more experienced set of eyes might feel like helping us with?
i'm likin' what i'm seein' my friend, everything looks good. I'm excited as well to see your Arjan's Haze develop, mine have grew some more foliage but update on my journal is soon. keep up the good work
Hey, thanks for swinging in. Yours look about a week ahead of ours, I think.
Not enough substance for an update yet, but I thought I'd mention that, when we looked at the seedlings today, we noticed that the three-year old mystery seed made a lot of progress. The cotyledons are almost out of the seed hull and it technically could be considered to be sprouted, although we have a little bit of rock-wool over it yet to help with moisture until it finally decides to reach on up. Really excited to see how this turns out!
Other than that, panda film is in the process of being installed and some of the Matanuskas are showing signs of a little bit of progress, just have to be patient I guess...
Last night all the potential ladies were transplanted! The roots on all of them were covering the bottom of the rock-wool cubes, begging to be immersed in coco. Eleven 3.4 liter pots were filled with coco a couple of days before and were flushed with tap-water in the bath-tub for quite some time. Two Arjan's Haze #3, five White Satin, and four Critically Smashed made the move. The two Matanuska Tundra that made it aren't ready to be transplanted yet. One of the Critically Smashed that was having serious problems was removed, and the other three Matanuska Tundras were disposed of after we found them full of white squishiness. The mystery strain has sprouted successfully, but the cotyledons aren't looking very healthy.
After firing up and calibrating the pH meter, we ran an initial run-off test, with the tap water at 7.3, and all the pots had a run-off pH in a range between 6.6 to 6.4. After some experiments to figure out the best way to approach adjusting the pH of the coco down, we got it down to two rounds of flushes, in the end bringing the run-off of the pots to the range of 5.6 to 5.4. After that, the plants were happily transplanted into the pots, and each plant received its first dosage of nutrients, a quarter dosage of Atami Coco A & B.
Most of the plants have been showing signs of needing a good dosage of nutrients. We've been concerned that its either been a nutrient deficiency, likely magnesium, or perhaps signs of heat stress. Underneath the fluorescents, temperatures had remained pretty constant at 30°C/86°F. Up until coming to their second week without showing any signs with the temperature remaining the same, though, it seems more likely that they just started getting hungry. Tomorrow I'll be taking more detailed pictures of some of these signs to throw up in Doctor's Diagnosis and at another site to get some other opinions. Nonetheless, we've been working to bring the temperatures down, and right now its been hovering around 26°C/79°F, which is working closer towards optimal anyways.
After transplanting them, the plants went back underneath the fluorescents. Fortunately the pots manage to all fit underneath the fixture pretty well, because we went to some great efforts to get their 600 watt HPS lamp going, to no avail. After hanging panda film in their intended area, the cool-tube couldn't be installed, due to the fact that the ceiling and walls are essentially solid rock. No access to the proper tools to work with the stuff. We then tried installing it in a wooden cabinet that was about 2m tall x 1m x .5 m, with the extractor fan pulling eight times the volume of air in the space every minute through the cool-tube, but temperatures on the floor wouldn't drop below 33°C/91°F. We then went back to the room where we installed the smaller grow area, rigged up a way to hang the cool-tube (it wasn't easy, talk about improvising ), and ran it with all different ways of bringing in and extracting air, but couldn't get the temperature below 32°C/90°F. The main problem was that the ambient temperature was already in the eighties, so no real margin to work with. The plants will love the spectrum of the fluorescents more anyways until we can hopefully take care of the ambient there before they can't stay underneath the fluorescents any longer.
So, let's close this up with a few pictures. Here's the four Critically Smashed, enjoying their new home:
Four of the five White Satin:
The two Arjan's Haze #3 on the left, and the other White Satin on the right:
AH3 #1, working on its third set of true leaves:
The two Matanuska Tundra:
And here's two pictures of one of the Critically Smashed, one closer up, of what appears to be a micro-nutrient deficiency. Much better pictures will be taken later, to clearly see what is happening with these ladies...
Hopefully the first dosage of nutrients will help them out, otherwise it'll be time to take another look at the pH of the coco and possibly bump it up to a half dosage of the recommended dosage. Thanks for reading!
Looking good so far bro! Whats up with your Matanuska? I've smoked that bud once and they were the biggest densest buds I've ever smoked and they were amazingly resinous. They are getting to that point where they are exponentially growing due to the surface area they can absorb light with. They are going to start taking off nicely very soon, especially with all that new soil to root into! Nice my man!
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
The Matanuska Tundra seeds had the exact conditions for germination, and considering how well everything else turned out, as well as a good handful of reports I've read from others who have ran the strain, the problem lies with the genetics, or really old seed stock. The two that have made it certainly are taking their sweet time, and we'll definitely be giving them anything they ask for. The smaller one didn't even sprout on its own; we found it with the tap root actually separated from the cotyledons, which had emerged most of the way from the seed, leaving just a little tiny bit of what I guess you'd call the stem. It is developing its first set of true leaves now, and, for all we've done for it, it had better fucking be female.
We'll attempt to start the last five seeds of the strain when we have space underneath the fluorescents again. I've contacted Sagarmatha a week ago to see if they could help with any information that will help ensure a better germination rate, with no response as of yet. Any tips on that would be appreciated, if anyone knows. Everything we've read about the strain has us very excited to get the desired phenotype, so it would definitely be disappointing to miss out due to the seeds having their problems.
You're definitely right about the exponential growth thing, we've been saying as much amongst ourselves. Provided we can help them get on the right track with the nutrients, there shouldn't be any stopping them. Hopefully they'll last underneath the fluorescents long enough to buy us time to take care of the temp issue with the HPS.
so will you be growing the females to the finish? any plans to do some cloning?
-------------------- "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
so will you be growing the females to the finish? any plans to do some cloning?
Yes on both questions. The plants that turn out to be females will be flowered, and we'll definitely be making attempts to clone every female before they flower. The clones of the most desirable phenotypes will become mothers, and we'll be flowering out clones after that as well. As soon as the fluorescents are clear, we'll attempt to germinate the last five Matanuska Tundra seeds, and I'm thinking we'll try to germinate the Original Thai Haze x Skunk #1 as well. They are supposed to be older seed stock already, and since they don't require a lot of light and have a long flowering time, we'll just put them on the edges of the grow and let them do their thing. We'll get our hands into breeding as well; find some great crosses, possibly gift them to interested Growery members? We're only growing for personal consumption, but we're fascinated by growing, all the different strains, breeding, etc., and just want to have fun experimenting with everything.
Thanks for checking in blueberryd, it certainly would be disappointing to lose out on the Matanuska Tundra, because, as Inverted was mentioning, they are supposed to be one hell of a unique strain - very potent, creeper high, dense buds, chocolate aroma, pistils that stay white.... Losing out on $160 while having a lot of success with a $30 strain and some freebies would kind of sting too...
Tonight the plants were watered. The water was adjusted to 5.8, and they were given a half-strength dosage, up from a quarter last time. The plants had a few days for their roots to grow out from the rock-wool cube and into the coco, and the ladies themselves have shown signs of growth meanwhile. The problems with deficiency haven't really gotten worse, and they were probably stemming from problems with the rock-wool cubes. Next time we germinate, we'll be planting the seeds straight into the coco. It should be a better environment for germination, as well as making it easier to manage pH and watering. A lot of the ladies have begun showing their fourth set of leaves, and tiny stipules are showing on the two Arjan's Haze #3. Adding the half dosage of nutrients, with some magnesium and calcium (also coming with other trace elements), now that the roots should be exploring the coco, should definitely knock it up a notch.
All of the plants together have been giving off a subtle but pleasantly noticeable smell of pot plants, very refreshing!
Here's the two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
And the five of Mandala's White Satin:
No pictures of the Matanuska Tundra right now, but the one is coming along all right, and the other smaller one is, well, really really small. Still alive and growing, though. Sometime soon, when the fluorescents are free from these ladies, most likely, we'll attempt to germinate the last five of the Matanuska. I have a feeling we'll have better success keeping them in coco, as opposed to the rock-wool cubes. I think the rock-wool cubes this last time through were carrying too much moisture inside of them, and although this didn't affect the other strains, since they grew very fast, the Matanuska Tundra seeds just take more time to germinate, and the same amount of water in the rock-wool affected them more adversely. Anyways, they could just be bad seeds, and the coco will tell us that for sure.
I had a few of my "oddball" bagseeds grow like your Matanuska are, they lagged behind the rest by at least a 2 week gap it looked like.
The wierd thing is that when they were all outside and recieving much stronger light, they actually came back and are catching up quite nicely.
They are still behind but they did end up increasing their growth rates once they finally had a few sets of leaves, which seemed to take forever compared to the vigorous phenos I have. But like i've mentioned before, its all about the surface area a plant has to supply it with what it needs to grow, the more surface area the faster the plant will go exponentially.
I think yours will come along too! What light are you planning on using for the rest of the grow, just Flouros? Sorry I may have forgotten what you said earlier on that subject. Don't give up on the matanuska just yet, I think they are probably just a slow starter (at least 5 of mine expressed the same situation you described), and yes some of my seedlings needed to have soil that was almost completely dry to sustain growth, otherwise they kinda just sat around not getting any bigger until my soil dried up...then they really shot into a spurt... yet others did fine staying fairly moist at all times... odd huh?
well i'm glad to see you are doing very well and they look sexy and healthy! Don't you just love the smell of fresh herb? It's almost indescribable
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
We have a 600 watt HPS with a cool-tube. Ambient temperatures in the intended grow room are naturally just too high for the HPS to be used over there, one of the reasons why they are still underneath the fluorescents. It basically gets up around 91°F, with the possibility of it getting hotter on hotter days perhaps, and the ambient temps are being somewhere in the 80's. It just isn't feasible to get air conditioning set up there right now, but we do have a temporary location that can be air conditioned that we will probably go to in the meantime.
The other reason they are still underneath the fluorescents is because they seem to be loving the light they are giving off! Very little stretching and very healthy growth. There are little stipules on the internodes, and there is little bits of green growth in the notch between the leaf stems and the main stem itself. At first we were thinking preflowers, but it looks more like little leaves growing out. The plants are definitely growing with increasing speed, and we'll probably do an update when we water again, possibly tonight but maybe tomorrow, since the coco seems to be decently moist on the top yet.
Not giving up on the Matanuska Tundra, and hopefully germinating in coco will bring better success. There are a lot of reports about bad germination rates with Sagarmatha though, but I really think too much moisture could be the problem, even as the amount of moisture is perfectly fine for other seeds...
Time for a quick update. It has been a few days and the plants were ready for some water and some feed. Temperature has remained pretty steady, around 26-27°C/78-80°F, with an exception for a few hours where the temperature climbed up to 32°C/90°F. The next day we noticed the leaves felt a little dry and what could best be described as little wrinkles in the middle of some of the top leaves. I'm assuming this would be a sign of resulting heat stress? There have been little areas on some of the leaves across the board with some discolorations and little variations in shapes of the leaves, but it is pretty insignificant and is probably due to issues with the rock-wool cubes inside the coco. This should become less and less of a problem as the roots colonize the coco and the plant finds more consistent pH and moisture levels. Definitely won't be using rock-wool again when all you need is coco.
The plants show noticeable signs of growth even throughout one day, with little leaves developing in the notches between the stems of the leaves and the main stem. They are definitely developing a beautiful, more distinct aroma, some plants more than others. We're thinking they will remain underneath the fluorescents for another week before they are introduced to the HPS.
The one Matanuska Tundra that is alive is showing some signs of the bumpy road it has been on. The other tiny little runt didn't make it, but it wasn't really growing anyways. Since the Matanuska Tundra was kind of on its own and separate from the more consuming, routine maintenance that the other eleven take, it has been neglected a little more and treated a little more rough. One day it had drooped over from becoming too dry, but sprang right back up after being watered. When it showed signs of needing nutrients some time ago and I was feeling a little too lazy to start adjusting and measuring out stuff for it, it was just given a full dosage of nutrients from a bottle intended for something else. Today it finally showed some signs that it might have been a little too much for it, so it was flushed. Its showing signs since of growth. If it makes it, it makes it, if it doesn't, it doesn't, but its kind of a lab rat for us, being subjected to harsher extremes to see how it responds so we can learn from it. Sagarmatha Seeds responded to our questions about the low germination rates we had compared to the other healthy strains, and they have graciously offered to replace them directly.
On to the pictures! First, a couple that were taken two days ago, the first of Arjan's Haze 3, phenotype #2, and the second of White Satin, phenotype #3:
The full image of the eleven ladies before they were watered tonight:
We were just marveling at the difference after just three full days in the size of the plants after posting this update.
If you notice carefully, the rows are in a different order, but it is the same plants in each row. After each watering, we move each row forward underneath the fluorescents to make sure they all get equal light over time, since, obviously, the spot in the middle receives the most light.
WOW! the improvement in those few days is remarkable! seems like you have everything under control and are doing a great job. My Arjan's Haze #3 along with my others are having some animal (deer mostly) and what we think are slug problems, and aren't blossoming to their full potential. I am going to be starting up my indoor grow soon which I'll have a few questions before starting for you after seeing your plants do so well. You say you aren't going to use the rock wool before planting into the coco anymore? did you feel that negatively affected your growth? I am interested.
Sorry to hear about your problems with animals and possibly slugs. I found a good link on natural slug control here. No actual experience with any of that though. Pipesmoker Elf mentioned she's seen a slug react as if it were getting shocked or having epilepsy when it touched a copper wire.
Thanks for the compliments on the grow. We really tripped when we took a look at those two pictures side-by-side. Its been a full day since that last watering and they are definitely showing signs of further growth. Once their roots got into the coco and started absorbing the nutrients, they have really taken off.
Yeah, I have a general feeling that rock-wool is just crappy stuff. I'm sure any problems we've had with it our our own fault, and that its perfectly fine for others, but it just seems less advantageous than just using coco. One of our problems could have been with using larger than usual rock-wool cubes, but the real issue was just with the way it holds onto water and possibly some issues with the pH. I've been told it isn't really a good idea to go from rock-wool cubes to coco anyways. It just seems like an unnecessary step when one is going to be using coco anyways, since coco is exceptionally capable of providing a great environment for germinating.
Feel free to ask away! It doesn't really feel like we have everything under control, as we're always crossing our fingers that we won't wake up and find everything really fucked up, but everything in general seems to be going pretty well.
Get your log updated with some pictures! Really looking forward to seeing your AH3, especially since, despite your pest problems, it should still be looking a week or two ahead of ours.
Use beer to get rid of slugs... I use it in my flower gardens. I just take a plastic cup and cut it down to about 2-3 inches, pour in beer dig a hole place cup in hole, and wait a day or two.. slugs will drink and drown... or whatever kills them... it works. My grandfather taught me while gardening at a young age.
Not sure how you could use this method for yourself... but I have heard regular 20:1 diluted dish soap is a good deterrent... but dish soap will bring earthworms and other nutrient rich bugs to the surface as well.... I use this to catch worms for fishing actually...
Again, I am not sure if it will harm your plants, but I wouldn't think it would... you can foliar spray with the solution to controls bugs.
Not too much new, but its been three days and the plants have been watered and fed again, so its time for some pictures. We bumped the concentration of the coco nutes up a notch and added some of the Ca and Mg as well. We're experimenting with doing some nutrient profiling of what we are working with, so later we'll have some data on that and a way of getting a better idea of how much nutrients to give them. Right now it seems like they aren't getting enough, but we're continuing to increase the dosages incrementally and let the plants tell us what they need.
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
The five White Satin:
Going to start work on getting the HPS running finally, so hopefully the temperatures will be manageable and we'll be able to start introducing these babies to some HID light.
Well, a few things have been happening, and the plants were fed and watered a little while ago, so its time for an update.
A few of the top leaves had a little bit of some burnt tips after the last feeding. After taking a closer look at the formulas used, it seems that it was a Calcium deficiency, resulting from there being an imbalance in the Calcium-Magnesium ratio. There was a little bit less Ca than Mg, when its typically best to aim towards twice as much Ca as Mg. I've read that, generally, about 60ppm of Mg is optimum, and we had it at about that level, but the problem is that the bottle of Ca has some nitrogen in it as well, and it makes it more difficult to keep proper proportions between everything. An idea is to use some of the P/K booster, with less of Coco A&B, to leave more room for the N to be cranked up with the Ca. I'm tired of seeing small signs of Mg deficiency, damn it!
In the meantime, though, we just gave them 1mL/L of Coco A and B, as well as 1mL/L of Atazyme. Somehow, we completely forgot that we had it. The label says its natural, multi-enzyme stuff that should help increase nutrient absorption, enhance root activity and plant growth, stimulate micro-organism activity, and reduce chances of over-fertilizing. Hopefully it will work fine.
The 600 watt HPS is up and running, in a temporary setup, that is allowing the ambient temperatures to be controlled, so the temperatures underneath it are manageable. The cool-tube is about 16 inches above the tops of the plants, with an oscillating fan blowing across the area in between, and the temperature is staying around 29-30°C/84-86°F. Not perfect, but perfectly acceptable, and it is pretty much the temperature they have been at underneath the fluorescents. They are being slowly introduced to the HPS, increasing it a couple hours a day, to get them used to the intensity, and also to give them the continued advantage of the fluorescents' light spectrum. Here's a picture of them, underneath the HPS, after they were watered today:
Here's the signature group shot and individual shots of the plants. A few more days and I don't think it will be possible to keep going with this formula, considering how much they are growing. I'll post the three other group shots first, three days between each one, to give a perspective on how quickly they've been growing:
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
And the five White Satin:
Thanks for checking in; great to see you back, Annom!
Good grow man. Nice space. I'm having the same difficulty with temp with CFL's no less. Oh well looks like you got it all worked out. Wish you the best of grows.
Looks like you are getting everything under control! Those plants all look textbook healthy and show no signs of stretching with close internode distance... I LIKE IT! My 2 little "Gravity" babies I started a couple weeks back look like your plants, I want to see how they compare as the grow goes along, being as mine are outdoors...
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Thought it might be nice to make another update, this one a little more picture-orientated, as opposed to boring old typing.
We watered the plants today, after only two days, instead of three. Despite what Inverted says about them looking textbook healthy , there are slight problems with some of the leaves, but I think it could be chalked up to "still dialing in the nutes". Watering/feeding more frequently is an initial step to see if it helps the matter. I really think the problem is with Mg/Ca though, and next time I'll be prepared to do a more radical approach to the nutrients to try to cure it.
The plants are still growing vigorously, without stretching. Running them underneath the fluorescents for this long, I think, is really making all the difference, but its definitely time to start weaning them off, and these huge fan leaves that are developing are just begging for the HPS light, and the leaves growing in the internodes for its intensity, so they are spending more and more time with it. Hopefully, in about a week, it'll be time for a transplant (the roots are starting to show up in the drainage holes and can be seen while peaking between the side of the pots and the coco) and some 12/12. We're dying to see some buds forming!
First, here's the group shot from when they were watered:
Thought we'd try something a little different this time, and take side shots of all of the plants, back underneath the fluorescents (with them turned off, of course, to get good quality pictures ):
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
The five White Satin:
Here's another shot of White Satin #3, to show how fucking huge its fan leaves are getting:
And another shot of White Satin #2, to show some of the leaves that have six leaflets:
Here's an interesting shot of Critically Smashed #1. One of the main leaves developed with its left half mostly yellow. Now, one of the smaller leaves that has developed from the internodes has the same exact thing going on, except it is on the right half. The only explanation that I can think of for this is genetic mutation.
And, the last shot, a close-up of Critically Smashed #4, the first and only plant thus far to develop alternate nodes. This became apparent almost a week ago. Very curious why the anomaly....
Thanks for checking in, kudos to those who've given some sign of life.
So sexy! I started 2 really late outdoor plants this year, the Gravity's as you might have seen in my GL but both of them look exactly like some of your plants, I thought that was very cool, they must be around the same age, your's might be a little less stretched because of how many hours you give it but they are definately identical
Sorry for the blurry pic, do you think this looks like a Indica/Sativa mix to you, the leaves are a little skinnier than any of my other strains... I hope so, because even if they only harvest a 1/4 per plant then at least I know its coming from an absolutely amazing strain. The gravity's around here are so fucking bomb... med grade.
They are so perfect and healthy, if this is a what growing a good strain is like I can't wait to order seeds, I love how both of my plants look EXACTLY the same, must be good genetics eh?
Even though they are a month younger than the rest of my plants they show the best prominent growth characteristics... I love it, I'm too obsessed... They are the shortest bushiest plants I have ever grown I think...
Oh and here's a shot of my good ol' city I took WHILE DRIVING today...heh
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Yeah dude, those are looking really great, can't wait to see how they turn out. They definitely seem to be about the same age as ours, maybe a little bit younger or less mature, from having less hours. They definitely look like a good hybrid, a little bit more towards the sativa side. It does seem like stable genetics, considering how consistent the phenotypes are. Is Gravity just the name of the commercial buds you got them from, or something?
Nice city too, looks like it must be in Canada, clean and stylish.
Gotta keep moving with the documentation. Not too much new, but a lot of pictures. The plants were watered twice in the last two days; the first time, they were flushed before being fed. What looks like nutrient burn began to appear a couple of days ago, bringing us to try some new things with feeding. After doing some analysis, it seems most likely that it was due to having too much Calcium. The Arjan's Haze #3 are looking the most worse for wear. This is thought because the leaves started going lime green at the edges, with the burnt spots (too much calcium locks up magnesium), and also due to the discovery that the label of our Bionova Calcium had a typo (1% CaO on the label, whereas it was intended to be 15%), meaning we were giving it far too much calcium, trying to keep it at the right ratio with the Magnesium. The first watering, we applied an accurate dosage of it with the dosage of magnesium. Today they were given a regular dosage of A&B (up to 1.5mL/L) and a dosage of Magnesium, absent the dosage of calcium, after the magnesium lock-out didn't improve from the day before. The thought is that the tap-water probably has a lot of calcium. I think we're starting to get everything dialed-in as far as this goes; can't wait for the RO to not have to guess about the tap-water.
Still alternating between the HPS and the fluorescents, for them to keep benefiting from the blue spectrum, as well as the light intensity that they need from the HPS. Hopefully in about a week, preflowers will start to appear. Most of the plants are working on their seventh set of nodes right now. In about a week, we'll be able to take our first shot at cloning, as well, as the side-branches are really growing.
Are you transplanting to bigger containers? maybe i missed it, but is that coco?
-------------------- "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
Hey guys, thanks for checking in. Yup, its coco. They are in 3.4 liter pots right now, and hopefully in about a week they will be ready to transplant into 16 liter pots.
ill be keeping my eye on this one, especially the MT and CS grows, i might be going with some matanuska for my next grow, and the CS is some holy grail genetics, so there have gotta be some gems in that pack
Way stoked to see the final product from the white satin...also gonna be looking for the grow with the free seeds since they are what I got with my White Satin order.
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
so those are almost 1 gallon pots? they look much smaller than that in the pics... which means the plants are even bigger than i thought
-------------------- "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
They are, on average, about 7" tall right now. A close inspection of them underneath the HPS today revealed that most of them have started developing preflowers. Some of them only have one on the whole plant, and its definitely too early to tell sex for sure, but there's one that definitely looks like a male and another that really looks like a female... the next week should be fun, as all of them should be determined, we'll transplant, take clones, etc...
Its been awhile, so I guess we should update this thing. The plants have been on 12/12 for six days now and are really working on their stretch (all of them are over a foot and a half right now). The plants have been suffering through some problems with the older growth getting burnt on the edges. There was an initial onset around the time they received an overdose of calcium due to the mislabeled bottle, and we've been working to figure it out and try out different things to stop it. It hasn't stopped yet, but it doesn't spread nearly as fast as it first did. It seems to be a compound problem, likely due to magnesium deficiency, too much salt buildup in the coco, something with the roots, who knows, because they don't seem to be responding too well to anything we try to that end. Starting to work with foliar spraying just this morning, and tonight the coco is going to be flushed like crazy again... Anyways, beyond the edges of some of the older fan leaves getting some burning, the plants seem to be pretty healthy, and all of the new growth on the side branches shows absolutely no problems.
Preflowers had started developing before the light switch, and as of right now, seven are confirmed female, three are unconfirmed, and one of the Critically Smashed was a male, that is no longer of this world. We took some clones from it a couple days ago, before it got chopped up, as we've never cloned and are seeking to build some experience with the essential technique. We tried three without a dome over them and three inside plastic domes, to see if it would be necessary to work with humidity domes, as some people have success without them. The three without wilted overnight, and the other three seem to be doing just fine. Tonight we'll be taking some more clones from some of the confirmed females.
That's pretty much all there is to it. Really looking forward to bud production; hopefully we can solve the problems with the old growth. Here's some pictures of all the plants. Thanks for checking in!
Hey man, thanks for checking in. The pots they are in now are 3.4 liters. The reason we didn't transplant right before the switch to 12/12 is because sex wasn't very apparent on any of the plants, and not to mention wanting to avoid the work of transplanting a bunch of plants to 16 liter pots that aren't going to be female, but there simply isn't any way ten plants would fit in that space in that size of pots - there just isn't enough floorspace. We'll be transplanting in the next day or two, but I'm kind of wondering if it would be too disadvantageous to just let that slide. Coco is being used more like hydroponics than like soil, so I'm not worried about them needing watered more often or anything like that, but the only concern would be them becoming root-bound enough that the salts wouldn't be able to be flushed out. The roots aren't going to grow too much after the stretch is finished anyways, right? If that's the case, then I think we wouldn't have a problem with that, considering how the sides of the coco look now. Anyone know more about that?
I'll get those pictures up for you in the next couple hours. Also, the one thing that has remained constant in the environment despite everything we've been attempting and changing to correct this leaf-burning problem is the pH, so tonight we're going to bump it up from 5.8 up to about 6.2 or 6.3 and see if that will fix this. Based on some feedback we've been getting in our diagnostic thread over at ICMag, as well as some of my own thoughts and the process of elimination, it seems to be exactly what the problem is.... but I've had my hopes up before, and we'll just have to wait and see.
The only thing I know is that I use 30 liter of peat soil per plant in my 400 W grow box (one big soil container). I don't know how many roots a plant needs. It sure depends on the size of the plant. I would transplant to 16 liter pots if possible.
Bumping pH from 5.8 to 6.2 should not give any problems. Let's see what happens.
I think what will happen is that some of them will make the transplant and some of them won't. I found a setting on the camera that seems to filter out the red light from the HPS, so here's a couple shots as requested. The overhead shot I really love.
I was just checking out the photos of your AH #3 and just like my plants it seems that this strain prefers to put its energy into the node leaves and not its branches, at least under florescents.
I sincerely hope that your able to reach a solution to your yellowing woes. By the way, I was wondering what your using to drop your PH. I'm leaning toward citric acid(sour salt) until the last two weeks of flowering, then I'm going to switch to lemon juice.
Hey guys, thanks for the interest. We were considering doing an update today, but we're out of batteries, so tomorrow we'll probably get on making that update. Everything is going well and they are starting to concentrate on bud production.
Quote: Uns4ne said: I sincerely hope that your able to reach a solution to your yellowing woes. By the way, I was wondering what your using to drop your PH. I'm leaning toward citric acid(sour salt) until the last two weeks of flowering, then I'm going to switch to lemon juice.
We've been making a lot of progress with the issues we were having, but incredibly low humidity makes it harder. We have a bottle of phosphoric acid that we use, but its mostly gone, and we're really thinking of what we'll be using until we can get another order in (at least a month). The nice thing about phosphoric acid is the boost of phosphorous for the plants.
This is when it starts to get interesting. Our girls have came out from the stretch with a lucky number of seven, and now the bud production is really kicking off. We've made a lot of progress with diagnosing the problems we were having with our plants, thanks in large part to subjecting the males to adjustments in nutrient dosages that were a little too adventurous to want to risk with the ladies. Potassium deficiency describes the problems we were having quite well, and they have been very responsive to increased amounts of P/K booster, with the leaves darkening up and the burning almost ceasing to spread further. Some of the main fan leaves still lack a little color around the edges, and the Arjan's Haze #3 girls seem very reluctant to green up (although most of the leaves on the side branches, which outnumber older leaves by a long shot, look a lot better), but we've hit a point at which we can't increase the P/K without causing some nute burn. The reason we've found a wall like this when everything should be fine is due to the humidity being virtually non-existent. We're working with a temporary setup right now due to not being able to control the ambient temperatures in the intended area, and, unfortunately, this air conditioner dehumidifies the fuck out of the air, and we can't spring for a humidifier at the moment. The water transpires too quickly and induces a potassium deficiency, as it assists with transpiration and gets left on the tips and edges, which, in combination with the lack of water, is responsible for the burning, and also explains why increasing P/K past a certain point doesn't have more of an effect. Just have to live with it for now, and be grateful to have learned a hell of a lot from everything.
Beyond that, we'll pretty much let the pictures speak for themselves. We've highlighted bud formation on two of the plants that are leading the way, one of the White Satin bitches, and the only Critically Smashed plant that turned out to be female. The structure of CS#3 is absolutely marvelous. We didn't take a clone from it (we still have seven seeds to run of that), but we do have a clone from the WS#3.
Also of interest is the fact that most of the White Satin plants really smell like coffee.
nice job sirius, this is the kind of grow log i like to read. it's concise yet chock-full of helpful info and you really seem to know what you're talking about. the fact that you use complete sentences and proper grammar doesn't hurt either
keep up the good work and know that you're an inspiration to at least one aspiring grower here.
keep up the good work and know that you're an inspiration to at least one aspiring grower here.
Make that two!
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
We appreciate those responses, saltatory and ren. Our goal with the log was simply to make it resemble the kinds of logs we enjoyed reading and looked for the most when we were absorbing everything we could like sponges - detailed information, updates being edited into the first post as well (unfortunately the first post can't take any more updates, so going forward, we'll either have to leave a couple empty posts after the first one, or get them to change the codes...). It feels great to hear that we're inspiring other people who are looking to grow for the first time, because the line of thought we both have had is that it is pays off a lot more in the long run to take a slight security risk in posting if it means that it helps the community out and gets more people growing. The spirit of overgrowing, I guess.
Uns4ne, the Arjan's Haze #3 might look a little less bushy than they should because they were hit the hardest throughout this whole deal and they're missing some of their leaves that should be there. They are about as tall as the rest of the plants. I'd suspect that they are really going to fill in with buds really well.
Annom, they are pretty much all a couple inches over two feet tall right now, and there isn't much for stretching anymore. They are still in their 4 liter containers. While we could have made the transplant (actually its hard to say, not sure if there's enough coco for it to have happened with all of them, and we'd like to use it for the next round of seedlings), I don't suspect that they will be too negatively impacted from not doing so. They still have plenty of moisture after a full day, and while the roots are really starting to poke out from the sides of the coco, I really wouldn't expect that they will become too root-bound to cause problems with not being able to flush excessive salts from the coco. I'm sure not having more roots will create somewhat of a limitation on yield, but I think we'll still get more than we could have dreamed of getting for a first time. Next time, we'll definitely be transplanting.
Took a couple more pictures for the hell of it. This is two days since the last pictures, and not one, since we posted that update a day later than we took its pictures.
This is one of the clones we took. Someone who was taking care of them for us while we were away nearly broke the stem in half, and I was curious how the rooting was going along, so up it came (it was male anyways). I think this is closer to two weeks after taking the clones. Only one of these is actually female. We didn't take clones from everything because we aren't really setup to do anything with them right now, and were only interested in getting our experience with the process. Of the plants we chose to take clones from, only one of them actually turned out to be female.
The buds keep developing more and more every day, the pistils are getting really big, and there is trichomes starting to coat everything! This is White Satin #2, which really seems to be getting long-ass pistils on it.
Finally, two shots of the little, temporary grow area:
Got a question for you Sirius. Does that grow area have a front and top or are you just open airing it on two sides? Does this help significantly with temp? How about light leaks? By the by, Damn fine job!
The front and top are open (although the top probably doesn't need to be, but it isn't going to accomplish much to cover it anyways). Our ambient temps in our intended area were too high for growing, and there was no way to condition the air there, so now we have it set up somewhere else. The front is open so the cool air can travel straight in from the air conditioner in the other room. Before, when we had it in that temporary setup, but with the front not open, the temperatures were getting to about 32 C/90 F degrees about 18" underneath the cool-tube. Now, the cool-tube is about 8" above the plants, and the temp stays around 24 C/75 F degrees. The difference is all in the air conditioning though - we tried having the HPS set up in a completely huge, open room, but the ambients were in the 80's and it was still getting into the mid '90's.
The whole room that that little setup is in is light-proof, so having the open sides doesn't pose any problems.
Roots work as buffer for nutrients and water. Large containers/root systems provide a large buffer and you have to water less frequent. That's the main advantage of a large container for me.
I don't know how many roots they need to not limit yield.
Well, it'd really be a question of other factors, because the more roots you have, the more water and nutrients they can uptake quicker, but if the plants aren't getting enough light, or carbon dioxice, to photosynthesize more to take advantage of the increased ability to supply water and nutrients to the plant, then it wouldn't matter.... It is really hard to say where that line is, but, generally, more roots is better for yield, and flowering full-sized plants out in a 4 liter container is a lot less common than a 12 or 16 liter container. We know we have to adapt to the smaller root size by watering more frequently and everything, but it was getting a little too late for the transplant and we didn't have enough coco to transplant all of the plants at the time (before sex was determined), and possibly not enough for all of the females anyways, also expecting to not be able to get more coco for the next set of seedlings until sometime after we'd need it, so we just decided to save the rest for the next germination and plan ahead, now having a better idea of how much we'd need, to be ready to make the transplant up to the 16 liter pots next time.
Well, this doesn't really count as an update, more of a teaser for the next update (coming soon enough ), but Pipesmoker Elf was playing around with the camera and found a good way to take some nice close-ups of the resin and bud production that is occurring right now on the sole Critically Smashed female. All of the plants are really filling out with this crystally goodness, this plant really exhibiting it well... Anyways, that's about it, so here's a couple pictures:
-------------------- "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
Looking great! Those ladies are a beautiful shade of green, and I can't wait to see those buds all fill in. Keep the updates comin'!
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
Hey Sirius, I thought you might like to know that while I was searching for more information on Arjans's Haze #3, I found this thread on page 4 of my Google search. Besides the work your doing here that's an impressive accomplishment for you and the (beta)growery.
What day in flowering are those Macro shots you took because that is an insane amount of trichome production for as mature as those buds look, its usually around 4 weeks that they seem to show that much but yours are fucking coated already and I would guess they are about 20 - 25 days into flowering? I'd like to know because if you look at the shots I've posted in my Grow Journal, you can see production on a higher than normal scale for me and yours looks about the same age but have probably 50% more trichomes than mine and I thought mine were dank!
You rule man, give me some lovin' over on my side
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Quote: Uns4ne said: Hey Sirius, I thought you might like to know that while I was searching for more information on Arjans's Haze #3, I found this thread on page 4 of my Google search. Besides the work your doing here that's an impressive accomplishment for you and the (beta)growery.
That's sweet. I wish we would have done a better job with them, but we're still in the process of learning and they have been the most sensitive to nutrients and everything. I really love how short and bushy yours became with some training.
Quote: Inverted said: What day in flowering are those Macro shots you took because that is an insane amount of trichome production for as mature as those buds look, its usually around 4 weeks that they seem to show that much but yours are fucking coated already and I would guess they are about 20 - 25 days into flowering? I'd like to know because if you look at the shots I've posted in my Grow Journal, you can see production on a higher than normal scale for me and yours looks about the same age but have probably 50% more trichomes than mine and I thought mine were dank!
They were at day 27, so I guess they were closer to four weeks anyways. Its not just a really good phenotype of the Critically Smashed that's causing it either, because the White Satin #3 is even frostier, and White Satin #2 nearly as much. The Arjan's Haze #3 plants are starting to focus more on budding now and are getting frosty too. We'll update here in a day or two with all of the plants.
Last night we snapped some pictures of all of the seven ladies before they were fed and watered. Not too much to say I guess, just lots of pictures. We split the plants into two groups, with each of us make the decisions as to how to administer the nutrients for one group, due to differences regarding which direction to go in. We're still trying to learn what the plants are telling us and to respond accordingly, and trying out two different approaches will really help us learn.
The vast majority of each plant looks healthy, but there's always the older fan leaves that show loss of color and then burnt edges. It doesn't get much worse, but I think the main problem is that, since we didn't transplant into bigger pots, as Annom was mentioning, there isn't enough of a buffer zone in the coco and the roots for nutrients, so the plant sucks it all up and then takes it from the older leaves when they need more. I think the direction we will be going is watering twice a day, as soon as the lights turn on and then close to six hours later, to be able to try to help avoid this, while also not burning the plants by giving all the nutrients they need throughout the day at once.
Another problem might be that the Atami Coco A&B has NPK proportions that make it difficult to give the plants exactly what they need. It has a ton of potassium and barely any phosphorous, and getting the nitrogen and phosphorous to the right levels seems like it causes over-fertilization, due to all of the potassium (especially considering that I thought the cation exchange of coco actually released more potassium and took in magnesium). At any rate, we are really interested in trying out the Flora series of General Hydroponics next time around.
Arjan's Haze #3
Both of these ladies are focusing on producing buds now. One of them seems to have really improved in health, while the other hasn't. The odd thing is that #1 improved dramatically with the same exact treatment as #2 got. Trying to increase the A&B to bring the nitrogen up while cutting back on the P/K didn't really do anything for it, even though this helped all of the plants improve initially. Last night we cut back significantly on the A&B and boosted the P/K to see if it would respond to that, so we're just waiting to see what happened. It would almost look like a micro-nutrient deficiency, but it is pretty inexplicable, since it is the only one to show this.
#1
#2
Critically Smashed
The sole female, #3, is the one we showed pictures of a couple days ago, and here's some more.
White Satin
Oh, how I love these ladies. WS #3 and WS #2 are the more indica-dominant of the group, which really shows in their resin and bud production. WS #5 leans a little bit closer to sativa, and WS#1 is much more sativa, closer to the Arjan's Haze #3, really. WS#3 is the leading lady of all seven. It has been sucking the nutrients out of its leaves more than any of the others. Like was mentioned with AH3 #2, it was initially responding quite well to increasing the A&B, but then it hit a point where increasing it further didn't do anything for it, and it seemed like it started sucking more out of the leaves again. The A&B was cut back again and the P/K boosted, so, again, we'll wait and see.
#1
#2
#3
#5
That about covers it. Not transplanting before the lights were flipped really seems like a mistake since we're not setup to water the coco more frequently (soon we'll be automating that so it isn't a problem), but we weren't really going to be able to do it since we'd have another set of seedlings that were going to need it before we could get more. Also, having a nutrient set that gives you more flexibility over the levels of individual nutrients really seems like a must. This is what we've learned so far.
So as far as feeding, would you say that the WS requires some additional nutes as compared to the other ladies? I'm curious for obvious reasons, and also very excited about the WS, thanks for taking the path ahead of me with those, I'm happy I didn't settle for the Sadhu and that I was able to get what I wanted. The trich coverage on the smashed and satin is nice, are you gonna do any hash work with them?
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
Well, its hard to say, because it seems the Critically Smashed is pretty much similar as far as that goes, and I really wouldn't know what to say about the Arjan's Haze #3, considering how many problems we've had getting them what they want. It is definitely possible to profile the nutrients you'll be using into ppm of each nutrient, and then do some comparison from there. It'd only give a general idea though, since we're obviously not dialed in.
I'm definitely stoked that you got that situation settled with your order and looking forward to how it turns out for you. We'll definitely be trying some sort of extraction on all of our trimmings. Well, definitely have to make cannabutter too.
Quote: Inverted said: What day in flowering are those Macro shots you took because that is an insane amount of trichome production for as mature as those buds look, its usually around 4 weeks that they seem to show that much but yours are fucking coated already and I would guess they are about 20 - 25 days into flowering? I'd like to know because if you look at the shots I've posted in my Grow Journal, you can see production on a higher than normal scale for me and yours looks about the same age but have probably 50% more trichomes than mine and I thought mine were dank!
It could just be that you're over-analyzing your grow. Yes watch your plants and love them but they're like children. Some times they'll just fuck up, fall down, and suddenly not be as pretty as when you sent them out . Looks awesome to me. Keep growing.
Well, I'm more than satisfied with our results thusfar, considering this is a first-time grow and everything, but I do know enough that the leaves shouldn't be fucked like that. They don't seem to be responding past a certain point with any of the adjustments we're doing, even with feeding a second time half-way through their day cycle, so its just being chalked up to either the tap-water is kind of fucked in that we can't raise the nutrients up to the point where it covers all the needs of the plants, because the starting ppm/EC is too high, or the aforementioned point about the high levels of P in the A&B, or just the container being too small (which I don't think is it, because they would have responded better to two waterings a day, as plenty of people keep plants in that size container with coco and some kind of more frequent watering schedule). Anyways, we're ditching the Atami and trying GHE Flora as soon as we can (with the next round of seedlings), still waiting on getting our RO filter, and will be transplanting to 16L next time, so I really think we'll just try to satisfy them the best we can and let it ride.
Thanks for the encouragement man! Still looking forward to see you get everything running.
Got seeds ordered, lights ordered, soil on hand. All I need is for the stupid ballast to start shipping again. Manufacturer is on backorder for Lumatek 250's -_-
As for the RO water I've heard it's pretty much just spring water. .69 cents down at the ole Walmart for a gallon.
Quote: BlargIAmDead said: Got seeds ordered, lights ordered, soil on hand. All I need is for the stupid ballast to start shipping again. Manufacturer is on backorder for Lumatek 250's -_-
That sucks about the ballast. Do you have an idea of how long it will be?
Quote:
As for the RO water I've heard it's pretty much just spring water. .69 cents down at the ole Walmart for a gallon.
Well, spring water would have trace minerals and everything I believe, whereas RO water would be more like distilled water. The benefit of it is that you've basically reset the PPM and know exactly what is going on and can adjust micro-nutrients as necessary.
There's no Wal*Mart in Europe, but when you are giving 1L of water each to seven plants, every day, and when you prefer to flush as often as you can, requiring 5L for each plant, you can see how you'd be carrying a hell of a lot of water back and forth all the damn time.
Normal tap water should be fine in most regions. You may need to adjust the pH after adding nutrients, but there is no need for special water in most cases. Harvesting rain water can also be an option. It is however fun to start with pure water and know exactly what is going on. The expensive bottled water I can buy at the supermarket is exactly the same water that comes out of my tap, same source
Quote: BlargIAmDead said: Yeah.....that could suck >.>. How do you people SURVIVE in Europe with no Wal-Mart?!!
*sigh* I want to go back to Japan now. So many little stores there I didn't get to go into .
Well best of luck with the RO filter.
Um...Wal Mart sucks. I avoid it at all costs. Literally. I will pay more money for a product just so I don't have to go into one. Sorry to get off topic. End Rant.
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
woops...sometimes that doesn't translate well over the internet...glad to see we're on teh same page.
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
Quote: Annom said: Normal tap water should be fine in most regions. You may need to adjust the pH after adding nutrients, but there is no need for special water in most cases. Harvesting rain water can also be an option. It is however fun to start with pure water and know exactly what is going on. The expensive bottled water I can buy at the supermarket is exactly the same water that comes out of my tap, same source
I don't think we're having problems with the tap water itself, but the conclusion I'm reaching is that the nutrients we are using are very suspect. The K is far too concentrated and there's no way of adjusting levels between bottles to cut it without causing a N or P deficiency. I suspect that the ppm of the water could be higher and that doesn't leave room for those levels of K, meaning we can't get enough N or P to the plants without causing some burning. Also, the coco naturally releases K, so the possibility that more K is causing lock-outs is there. Anyways, we won't drink the tap water ourselves, and giving the plants RO water and knowing exactly what is in the water we are giving them is a plus. Since no longer having to buy bottled water will pay for the RO machine in months, and it won't need new filters for years, so it just makes sense for us. You're definitely right though, tap water is usually fine for growing.
Just a quick note for my own purposes that these pictures were from yesterday, so I don't mess up my flowering count going forward.
Time for an update. Not too much to say, just a lot of pictures of the developing buds. The last couple of days, the calyxes have really begun swelling. The next month should be very interesting with watching these things pack on weight. Still working on adjustments with how we feed to best accommodate the small pot-sizes. We no longer need to worry about running out of pH-, so we're trying to flush 5L or 10L through every plant every night to help keep the chemistry as balanced as we can. Also, the problems we were having with the #2 phenotype of Arjan's Haze #3 having a very exaggerated yellow color was due to light bleaching. The plants had stretched some and were getting close to five inches underneath the HPS, and this one was staying directly underneath the bulb. We've moved it back up to leave about ten inches of space between the lamp and the canopy and put a shorter plant in that spot, and it has been getting a nice shade of green again, with the exception of some spots that seem as though they will stay bleached.
Looking fucking frosty my friend!!! I haven't seen my main crop for a week or more so its definately going to be a suprise when I go back there to see em'... I'm damned excited to see them and show you guys the updates!
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Strange, Whilst perusing the interwebitubes I came across another thread of yours that concerns propagating a specimen already in flower. It seems by look'n at krushonkush's pics that that FIMing the top bud is the secret to success, not toping it off. I really wanted to preserve one of my Big Bang now that I see how she's flowering, now I see theres a chance.
Fuck, now I wish I had put together that thread on the FIM technique. Now I see there's a practical reason for mastering that part of the plant. All I can say now, is that my idea consisted of an artichoke, 12"s of honed kitchen steel, a cutting board, and the desire to dissect a macro terminal bud. The anatomy I'm sure is a little different, but that experience could give someone good ideas on what plain to slice the bud at (for FIMing and now possibly clone reveging). I'm glad I ran into ya, I wouldn't have put this much thought into it otherwise.
Ahem... Update? I know you're busy, but it has been two weeks.
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
I realize you said "that just about does it" up above. Sounds like you meant about statement you made above. Any more pictures to show us? I'm sure they grew a lot more than the last update.
Sorry for the disappoint Furrow, more important things stepped in and demanded more time than what would leave enough to stay caught up with this. I know first-hand how disappointing it is to read through almost to the end of a good grow-journal and then find no end.
The good news is that, while I can't really say too much, everything worked out better than expected. We're taking an indefinite break because we have too many legitimate projects that simply don't involve risk of undue injustice. Fortunately, I really feel like prohibition is almost over and we're looking forward to that time.
White Satin is some of the best and I'm really hoping that Mandala will be one of the lucky breeders and actually make a come-back after a sabbatical from seed production (although not from creating new strains! ) so that everyone can have access to the great, original genetics (and Satori!). Also, as we had both expected, Arjan's Haze #3 was exquisite genetics, a truly unique and interesting strain with a lot of cool traits, and this was with only two phenotypes. One smelled exactly like carrots and had huge tufts of orange pistils (I'll throw in a shot ), and the other one a pretty unidentifiable, unique smell that is very pleasant. Great sativa high of course, and with the renowned benefit of growing like a bushy, short indica. It'd be interesting to work with the strain, going in one direction and crossing with very short & bushy, potent indica genetics, and then another project to cross it with something like Sam the Skunkman's Original Thai Haze x Skunk #1, to get some very unique and pretty unprecedented f2's with a lot of potential for interesting hybrid vigor. Anyways, Greenhouse really delivered on that one.
Still won't be having too much spare time, but I have plans of writing some stuff up and a lot of work to get the main site organized, not to mention all kinds of other ideas that we can implement here on the Growery to take advantage of the natural advantages we have from all the experience and the existing community at the Shroomery to get a real corner on being an online marijuana cultivation forum at a time when common sense will actually guide marijuana policy. If Obama, for instance, simply holds to his campaign promise of not using the feds to intervene in state affairs would be enough to legitimize the entire marijuana industry that has developed in California and the West Coast, which will only cause a boom for that economy... stoners across the nation would be hopping into cars and airplanes to road trip to Cali. There is definitely a lot of potential to really grow this community.
AH#3 #2 (carrot pheno):
The patches of orange pistils look crazy, I bet there are millions of different, fun smelling phenotypes in that strain.
OOhh loooks good! No worries man. I worry more about everyone staying away from the law than I do about their logs. I knew you had been posting in other sections and was just curious if had been completed.
did you ever try to clone the white satin at all Sirius?
-------------------- So, in summation: The CIA, with a little help from the Nazis, accidentally helped invent hippies while they were trying to figure out how to brainwash communists.
Pour that on your granola and eat it, you zombie pinko bastards!"
you sure about that?? I was just asking if he had ever known anyone to find the mandala strains to be "easy cloners" not implying that anyone involved with this forum would ever do anything illicit. Oh goodness no. not that.
some strains are easier to clone than others. THseeds bubblegum is one that clones well but not quickly at all... like 3 weeks for full roots... a FOAF told me, not that I'd know because I've never grown any weed in my life
-------------------- So, in summation: The CIA, with a little help from the Nazis, accidentally helped invent hippies while they were trying to figure out how to brainwash communists.
Pour that on your granola and eat it, you zombie pinko bastards!"
koons isn't making a statement about security, Sirius really doesn't grow anymore...you're posting in an old thread.
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
Yeah I know, sorry if I was being testy-- it's been a long week and a half... I'm the only one trying Mandala in here I guess--- was hoping to find some neighbours doing similar things with mandala seeds but so far I'm on my own
thanks for the heads up
-------------------- So, in summation: The CIA, with a little help from the Nazis, accidentally helped invent hippies while they were trying to figure out how to brainwash communists.
Pour that on your granola and eat it, you zombie pinko bastards!"
I'll be kickin off a Mandala Satori grow, but not until January
-------------------- "So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
Hmm--- I'm veggin bonzai moms but it's gonna get really hot this summer so we'll see what happens
white satin from mandala-- so far growth is very vigorous, with side shoots beginning on the very 1st internode after only 1 week. Very amazed!
camera doesn't work with Linux so wait and see maybe I can start my own growlog in a while
-------------------- So, in summation: The CIA, with a little help from the Nazis, accidentally helped invent hippies while they were trying to figure out how to brainwash communists.
Pour that on your granola and eat it, you zombie pinko bastards!"
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Meanwhile, the mystery seed has cracked itself open and is starting to emerge. We've been lifting the fluffy bits of rock-wool covering the other seeds and most of them have cracked and some have nearly popped out of the rock-wool. 
) is a great experience. 
Looking underneath the rock-wool cubes, she noticed that most of the seedlings have adventurous taproots that have exposed themselves. So, here is a couple examples, our first root porn, jail-bait style. 
The taproot on the mystery strain has been growing more in the rock-wool and the seed hull slowly becomes more cracked, so in the next day or two I'd expect to see the cotyledons emerge. Beyond that, we're taking care of some work in the grow room to get it ready to be set up, tomorrow the panda film will go up, and everything else after that. Transplanting the healthy seedlings into coco shouldn't be more than a few days away, especially considering how vigorous these roots are. 
), and ran it with all different ways of bringing in and extracting air, but couldn't get the temperature below 32°C/90°F. The main problem was that the ambient temperature was already in the eighties, so no real margin to work with. The plants will love the spectrum of the fluorescents more anyways until we can hopefully take care of the ambient there before they can't stay underneath the fluorescents any longer. 
Looking great! 
. I was planning on trying my hand at the Arjan Haze #3 on my next grow. I'll defiantly be keeping my eye on this one to see how it progresses.
The plants that turn out to be females will be flowered, and we'll definitely be making attempts to clone every female before they flower. The clones of the most desirable phenotypes will become mothers, and we'll be flowering out clones after that as well. As soon as the fluorescents are clear, we'll attempt to germinate the last five Matanuska Tundra seeds, and I'm thinking we'll try to germinate the Original Thai Haze x Skunk #1 as well. They are supposed to be older seed stock already, and since they don't require a lot of light and have a long flowering time, we'll just put them on the edges of the grow and let them do their thing. We'll get our hands into breeding as well; find some great crosses, possibly gift them to interested Growery members? 
Really looking forward to seeing your AH3, especially since, despite your pest problems, it should still be looking a week or two ahead of ours. 
We've made a lot of progress with diagnosing the problems we were having with our plants, thanks in large part to subjecting the males to adjustments in nutrient dosages that were a little too adventurous to want to risk with the ladies. Potassium deficiency describes the problems we were having quite well, and they have been very responsive to increased amounts of P/K booster, with the leaves darkening up and the burning almost ceasing to spread further. Some of the main fan leaves still lack a little color around the edges, and the Arjan's Haze #3 girls seem very reluctant to green up (although most of the leaves on the side branches, which outnumber older leaves by a long shot, look a lot better), but we've hit a point at which we can't increase the P/K without causing some nute burn. The reason we've found a wall like this when everything should be fine is due to the humidity being virtually non-existent. We're working with a temporary setup right now due to not being able to control the ambient temperatures in the intended area, and, unfortunately, this air conditioner dehumidifies the fuck out of the air, and we can't spring for a humidifier at the moment. The water transpires too quickly and induces a potassium deficiency, as it assists with transpiration and gets left on the tips and edges, which, in combination with the lack of water, is responsible for the burning, and also explains why increasing P/K past a certain point doesn't have more of an effect. Just have to live with it for now, and be grateful to have learned a hell of a lot from everything. 
Great pics and plants!
Thanks for checking! 
and we're looking forward to that time. 
