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Stoneth said:
Quit bullshitting the guy.
It's TSL, play nice.

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Bumble_Dick said:
Thoughts?

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I can't believe I didn't see that sooner...

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ninjapls said:
And what's her agenda exactly?

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ninjapls said:
I'd love to see your sources, can you provide some links?

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I'd like to see a list of your (or her) sources before I'll spend the time and effort drafting up a list for you. This is standard protocol for anyone claiming anything contrary to the consensus of the scientific community. In the meantime, you are welcome to google such obvious terms as "OX315a", "GM Mosquitoes", "Flavivirus", "Dengue", "Zika", etc. Most of this information is freely available within the first results page if you know how to use google.

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ninjapls said:
It's very possible you might not have any idea what you're talking about too. Seems you're just trying your hardest to discredit the lady to be quite honest.

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I might not know what I'm talking about, but that would be under the assumption that a broad range of peer-reviewed essays, FDA reports, and decades of virological and epidemiological studies on flavivirus species are all fundamentally wrong. Now, are you willing to tell me that your video,  that appears to be a conglomeration of questionable online news article excerpts, quotes taken out of context, and wild speculation...is less likely to contain erroneous information or wild leaps of false logic than my write up, which is based on peer-review articles and the consensus of the scientific community? If so, then I'm willing to tell you that your ability to properly research and logically break down any issue of substance is sorely lacking. In fact, your statement of "herpes and E.coli infected mosquitoes" tends to support this statement, as you have clearly failed to read up on the publicly available literature on OX315a mosquitoes.

And yes, I feel as though people like this (spreading stupidity, illogical thought processes, and misinformation built from the fragments of shitty news outlets) should be properly discredited. She is beyond helping, but I can at the very least offer up some sort of counter-argument to try and save you from drowning in her stupid, since you seem to genuinely want to know the truth. I hope you'll realize that I'm not trying to shit-talk you (well, maybe a little...but only because you seem like you can take it), but rather trying to help you better your abilities to see bullshit and paranoia for what it is. If I was mistaken, and you just want someone to pat you on the back for blindly following an idiot, then please disregard my posts.

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ninjapls said:
You didn't tell me what you think about the deadly neurotoxin being sprayed over some people in Florida.
You'd be okay with a deadly neurotoxin being sprayed over you?

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I never said anything about the "deadly neurotoxin", because I don't know enough about it. I don't claim to known anything that I haven't researched thoroughly. The research that I've done did suggest that any attempts at using selective chemical population control on the adult mosquitoes is not advisable, as the adults tend to be resistant or become resistant to most of the common selective insecticides (which is the driving factor behind the development of GM mosquitoes). Knowing this, my opinion is that spraying any type of chemical is probably not a good idea, unless I am presented with information that suggests otherwise.

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ninjapls said:
Are you also implying that you'd be ok with officials knocking at your door asking you to piss in a cup as opposed to maybe going to a clinic on your own time?

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ninjapls said:
Please don't make me laugh, this is a serious issue.

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I agree, this is a serious issue...just not in the context that you are implying.

Good to see you again, Thoughts...that's a nice puppet you got there

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agmotes165 said:
This woman is obviously cherry-picking information and taking quotes out of context to support a very obvious agenda.

1st Video:

Zika virus is in the viral genus Flavivirus, who's members include West Nile, Dengue, Japanese Encephalitis, Yellow Fever, and several other encephalitic vector-borne viral species. Most are transmitted by one specific species of mosquito (Yellow Fever Mosquito), which has been introduced to all continents with the obvious exception of Antarctica. In contract, Zika can be transmitted by both the yellow fever mosquito and the Asian Tiger Mosquito, a much more active and persistent species of mosquito that out-competes most endemic species of mosquitoes when introduced. Most of the time, Zika is confined to monkeys in tropical settings, occasionally spilling over to small populations of humans, who endure a single infection and usually recover. However, it does share much of the genetic information with its highly fatal relatives. Additionally, while other flaviviruses tend to only reproduce in the cytoplasm of the host cell (where all of the cell machinery is contained), Zika subunits and antigens have been located in the nucleus (where all of the genetic information of the host cell is located, drastically increasing the likelihood of direct genetic damage by viral proteins and subunits).

GM mosquitos were originally designed to combat the effects of the Zika relative Dengue, which has 5 unique serotypes (or just varieties if you want to think of it that way). Initial infection of Dengue is usually mild (flu-like symptoms, rash, etc.) and a low fatality rate. Subsequent infection by the different serotypes results in progressively more severe infection symptoms due to a complex interaction known as antibody-dependent enhancement. This will lead to Dengue Hemmorhagic Fever by the 2nd or 3rd infection, and Dengue Shock Syndrome by the 4th infection, both of which result in increasing severity of internal bleeding, blood abnormalities, brain damage, and organ failure. Dengue Virus is thought to have evolved into a human-transmissible form in the 19th century, and has since mutated into multiple serotypes that we see today, with the 5th serotype being isolated as lately as 2013. This virus has been empirically proven to mutate at a quantifiable rate, and subsequent studies show that most RNA viruses (all virus in the Flavivirus genera, including zika) mutate at similar rates (a per-generation basis, meaning that the more replications the virus makes, the higher the total rate of viral population aggregate genome mutation). It should also be noted that the entirety of its genetic mutations occurred (for the most part) in the human population limited to tropical portions of certain continents, and thus a limited portion of the world population.

Now, we have a similar virus (Zika) that currently shows similar symptoms of initial infection (flu-like symptoms, rash, etc)...that can be transmitted by not one, but TWO species of mosquitoes with a world-wide distribution, with a known rate of mutation that is dependent on the number of replicating viral units (and thus dependent on the number of people infected) and who's closest family relative has a known mutation history (within the last 100 years, utilizing a much smaller population of people than what is currently opening up to the zika virus) of splitting into multiple serotypes that enhance the symptoms of subsequent infections, and also has the unique ability to breach the wall of the host cell's nucleus, thus increasing the chance of causing permanent changes to the genome of infected cells.

The nervousness towards the Zika virus seems pretty fucking obvious to me, even if you omit the unproven yet strong correlation between fetal infection and microencephaly, or the chance of developing post-zika guillain-barré syndrome, a degenerative neurological auto-immune syndrome that slowly paralyzes and kills you. 

So onto the GM mosquitos.

The GM mosquitoes are not "infected with herpes and E.coli". Instead, they contain small snippets of genetic code from the genome of these (and other) species (not the entire genome, just the 100 or so bases necessary for the tetracycline-dependent expression mechanism). The genes used are fairly common in nature, but they selected code from E.coli to make it easier to replicate the complete gene in a bacterial culture, so they can have more copies of the gene to work with. The only thing this gene does is divert resources towards coding its own promotor to the point that the host cell can't survive. When the presence of tetracycline is below a certain concentration, the gene is expressed much more highly than any other genetic expressions required for the host cell to grow and multiply, and the cell essentially starves. The video claimed that some of the offspring can survive in the presence of trace amounts of tetracycline, but the reality is that gene itself codes for a protein that pumps tetracycline out of the cell, further reducing the chance of survival of the gene across more than 10 generations (each generation lasts about 5 days). You have to remember that this mutation presents a very significant (minimum 85% mortality rate per generation, with average closer to 95-98%) genetic disadvantage to the carrier mosquitoes. Even if a carrier manages to hatch, it will be severely weakened by the constant energy drain and disruptive protein accumulation,  and will be much less likely to pair and successfully mate prior to death, ultimately leading to natural selection phasing the gene out of the gross population.

Additionally, while their is evidence that parasitic insects can contribute genetic material to their hosts, the occurrence is so rare that only 2 species of parasitic insects have ever been documented of transmission to their hosts. Additionally, the type of genetic transfer is extremely limited (excludes the OX513a gene), and if such a transfer were to occur, it would have the same self-limiting effect on the host and host's progeny as it does on the mosquitoes themselves, ensuring that long-term incorporation of the OX513a gene into a mammalian species is practically impossible.

So, while I don't necessarily support the current approach, and may think that more research would be prudent prior to introducing a GM organism into the wild, I know for a fact that the woman in the video has no idea what she is talking about. I can also see why the WHO and CDC would be very interested in limiting the prevalence of the virus, and why most of the scientific community would not be too worried about this particular variety of GM organism. You can also console yourself on the worry about catching herpes or E.coli from a mosquito, and I'm just going to chalk up the whole "government demanding your piss" comment to the same silly superstition and paranoia that tribal people had when WHO was trying to protect their villages from an Ebola outbreak. That kind of ignorance further contributes to the growing list of global threats to humanity. In reality, the only real concerns I have at this point are the effects of mass mosquito population reduction on the surrounding ecosystem. But even that is irrelevant in this context, as the mosquitoes being killed are non-native species in north america...and their presence in general is a disruption of the original ecosystem.

2nd Video:

This concept has been around for centuries, its called marketing and advertising...and it will continue to evolve with the various methods with which we communicate information. And just like people having to re-learn how to sniff out a scam (say from a newspaper classified ad or a telemarketer, to an infomercial, to a phishing email), people need to take it on themselves to do their own research, logically eliminate misinformation or bias, identify and learn from mistakes, take a deep breath before acting on some news article, and think for their damn selves when gobbling up information from online sources.

Education is the key. Learn a good health foundation of well rounded topics, learn to use logic when breaking down a claim or an argument, learn how to avoid bias in your research, learn the limitations of what can currently be known about a particular subject (some claims cannot be backed up by current empirical evidence or conclusions built on said evidence). It doesn't have to be public education, there are still plenty of good people posting good, solid content online that one can use to teach themselves the basics of logic, and gain a foundation of peer-reviewed knowledge base. Finally, be THAT parent....learn as much as you can for yourself, but then train and educate and support your children such that they grow up to question what doesn't make sense, to feel like they have the skills to logically think something through, and to have the humility to realize that some very very complex topics cannot be solved using very simple thought experiments (one of the most common mistakes semi-intelligent people make).

Thats on this thread.

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ninjapls said:

That's what it all boils down to. Who the fuck can you trust.

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