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 Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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 Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves?  [Re: captain.koons]
#789477 - 08/13/15 12:32 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Anything but angry or little.
Can you tell me a bit more about how to conduct a double blind study? I'll dedicate my resources to coming to conclusion. Must be double blind, as you requested as that's the only time you will be a believer.
Well you obviously wouldn't be doing it yourself. Get 4 plus growers, apply same grow method, nutes all the environmental shit. Now we those 4 growers decide among themselves to do a method of not trimming, some apply your method.
Repeat the process a few times, compare quality and quantity.
I was never advocating no removal of leaves whatsoever. But it's extremely minimal for me. Usually only yellowing ones that already want to come off. I will tuck them so they don't cover a bud though
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: Hawksresurrection] 2
#789483 - 08/13/15 12:51 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sorry, you must be trolling me as this doesn't fit the criteria for a double blind experiment. You design the double blind experiment, I will conduct it.
For the record the defoliated plants would be the control variable, the non defoliated plants would be the control variable. A double blind experiment is where the researchers and participants don't know who belongs to what group. That would be pretty fucking hard to pull off in this situation.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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 H J Farnsworth
Stranger
Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 112
Loc: Colorado 
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: captain.koons]
#789504 - 08/13/15 03:37 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think you can do a double blind study with leaf trimming because the grower knowingly has to trim the leaves.
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Officially a Colorado medical marihuana patient
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: H J Farnsworth]
#789505 - 08/13/15 04:14 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Correct, I was just amusing myself. As Hawk said he won't believe me until he sees the double blind trials.
Blind is where the volunteer or subject has information kept from him or her often times if that person falls into the placebo/control group or not.
Double blind is where neither the participants or researchers know to further remove bias.
Neither is appropriate for this sort of test as we're working with quantitative values.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: captain.koons]
#789509 - 08/13/15 05:12 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well then lets just have it at some side by side results then. It can still technically be a blind study, just not a double blind.
You would be reading the results but not knowing which group is the method that you would prefer.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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H J Farnsworth
Stranger
Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 112
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
#789510 - 08/13/15 05:31 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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May 2016 be the year this debate is put to rest.
Cause I want to know.
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Officially a Colorado medical marihuana patient
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SmokeSomeHash
Littlest pee pee on da block
Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 1,555
Loc: murica
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: H J Farnsworth]
#789524 - 08/13/15 09:04 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just plant a bunch of clones from the same plant next to each other under the same light with same nutes and defoliate some and not the others. Repeat it with a few harvests and compare results each time.
Science doesnt have to be overly complicated just do side by side trials and compare results over time to see if a noticable pattern occurs. One grow wont suffice, do it a few times and with different varieties as every variety will respond differently. Plants will always adapt to the weirdest shit, there will always be exceptions to any rule, so just do a bunch of trials and see what happens.
And quit arguing like lil bitches.
Personally though...if the leaves arent yellow or sickly, i would leave them.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: Hawksresurrection] 2
#789553 - 08/14/15 08:29 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well then lets just have it at some side by side results then.
I have no intention of doing a side by side. I said I would do a double blind to please you, because I thought you must of known what's up. Turns out you like using big words you hear on discovery. You rather indicate someone is angry or wrong than contribute something productive.
I have little desire to investigate something that will 1. cost me money 2. not prove anything to me. 3. it's also very easy to obtain specific results in favor of defoliation or in favor of no trimming. To be effective it has to be experimented with and there's no method that will work for all plants. Fact of the matter is, it's easy to find several commercial operations which defoliate and break the 2lb a light margin with average yielders at best. They're out yielding 99% of the online community and growing on a 100+ light scale. Do you think they would be using these techniques to their detriment and still be killing it?
If I wanted to be in favor of no trim I'd just defoliate in a high light low plant density environment. This has been done on a side by side.
If I wanted to be in favor of no trim, I could also just defoliate too much and it's game over for the plant.
If I wanted to favor defoliation, I'd reproduce the results I explained above regarding my pheno of OG KUSH x NLhz.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: captain.koons]
#789683 - 08/15/15 09:54 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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So you don't have confidence that your way is more productive? You can sit there and shit on me for using the wrong terminology, that's fine. But when it comes down to it you are just upset that someone who has been growing for quite a long time, with great results, disagrees with your methods. And will say so.
For all the talk about how amazing you defoliated plants do, we haven't seen shit from you as far as proof.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
Edited by Hawksresurrection (08/15/15 09:58 AM)
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: Hawksresurrection]
#789690 - 08/15/15 10:45 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not angry, I couldn't be angry with someone disagreeing with me on such a general level. As said there's many variables as such defoliation isn't going to benefit each and every grow, especially done incorrectly ie. too much too soon. I could easily design a side by side experiment that would appear unbiased to the those who haven't used defoliation successfully either to support defoliation or no trim, which I explained above. I can direct you to a defoliation experiment where the plants had an abundance of light in either situation and they defoliated too much too soon and the defoliated plants suffered. I can also direct you to a 148k grow where the user defoliates to great success. Besides, how could I be angry with someone for disagreeing with me when they simply say that I'm wrong and request a double blind experiment. Never to be caught after continuous prodding. I have nothing to prove. Disagree all you want.
I'm not here to dedicate my resources to the benefit of people I'm not particularly fond of (you) only to lead to financial loss on my end (loss of yield).
Again I don't know why you feel the onus is on me to prove anything. You all the same could design an experiment to display why defoliation is at the detriment to yield.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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H J Farnsworth
Stranger
Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 112
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: captain.koons]
#789715 - 08/15/15 02:05 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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After thinking on this for a while and looking at how light hits some plants I've concluded that in an outdoor situation light my own removing the leaves won't matter because the sun is always moving so just because something is shaded by a leaf doesn't mean it will be in 30 minutes. Indoors I have no opinion.
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Officially a Colorado medical marihuana patient
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: H J Farnsworth] 1
#789734 - 08/15/15 05:06 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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You're also not packing as many plants as possible into a small area.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: captain.koons]
#789760 - 08/16/15 02:10 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Take off the side branches leave everything else.
   
There ya go homos
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: Magash] 1
#789761 - 08/16/15 03:25 AM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sweet 16 is a bad bitch, you've bred for low branching. Defoliation/debranching is strain dependent. Still waiting for you to get those beans going.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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hobowizard
growling grower
Registered: 05/16/15
Posts: 43
Loc: Baltic region
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: captain.koons]
#790063 - 08/17/15 06:56 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, trimming leaves outdoor would be a waste of plant's energy.
But trimming leaves indoor could actually help a little, but only if:
1. Grow box isn't big (not tent or room), I'm talking about one plant box.
2. You LST like crazyyy.
3. You defoliate only the lower part of the plant, never defoliate the top branches' leaves.
One grower grows like that, he uses hydroponics, leds, p. small growbox. He gets really good yields in the context of g/m2. He developed this way of growing within practical way - he grew like that many times.
Anyway, I can't remember much, but he starts by topping as soon as possible, a very little plant, then he does shit with it like tops it 5 times... While LST... Oh, and, he grows only one plant.
Thoughts?
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Feeling real good
Edited by hobowizard (08/17/15 06:57 PM)
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loco801
Stranger
Registered: 04/07/14
Posts: 31
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: hobowizard]
#790065 - 08/17/15 07:15 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've heard of tucking leaves in outdoor scenarios, and also cutting small bottom branches off and lower leaves up the plant a bit during veg.
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hobowizard
growling grower
Registered: 05/16/15
Posts: 43
Loc: Baltic region
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: loco801]
#790232 - 08/19/15 01:17 PM (9 years, 4 months ago) |
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trimming the small branches from the lower part is truly a great idea. also, you could make some clones out of those branches, as I did recently
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Feeling real good
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ello619
Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 33
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: H J Farnsworth]
#794705 - 09/26/15 04:50 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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A mature plant will pretty much defoilate herself when ready. Dont cut the leaves
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: H J Farnsworth]
#794731 - 09/26/15 08:23 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
H J Farnsworth said:
That is the question. The plant is an auto that's three weeks or so into flower. Thanks everyone
Okay, here's the Facts;
Contrary to myth, most sun or fan leaves shot not be removed from the plant during the vegetative stage. These leaves are costly for the plant to produce, and they are sugar factories that turn the light into chemical energy. These sugars are used to power metabolism and are also used for tissue building by combining them with N and P to make amino acids and proteins. When a leaf is removed, the plant loses a source of energy, and its rate of growth slows. Gardeners who routinely remove the fan leaves from their plants outdoors slow growth and lower yields.
If you don't believe this, try an experiment with a small branch growing from either side. Remove one of the leaves and see which branch developes faster.
Sometimes a few fan leaves block light from a large section of a plant. These leaves can be removed if, on the whole, the plant receives better distribution of light.
Similarly, leaves that are constantly in shadow such as leaves below the canopy indoors are not contributing to plant growth, so they should be removed. Similar to "lollipop" pruning, this eliminates the risk of infection, improves air circulation, lowers humidity, and reduces the demand for nutrients.
Leaves that are directly blocking light from getting to buds or the cola should also be removed. This becomes more prominent. However, leaves near the buds but not blocking light should be left in place.
Remove yellow leaves, as well as any infected or infested material.
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AGrower
Hydroponic Enthusiast
Registered: 09/20/15
Posts: 123
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Re: To trim the fan leaves or to not trim the fan leaves? [Re: AGrower]
#794732 - 09/26/15 08:31 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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There does not need to be a double blind anything, or any kind of contest, or experiment. They have already been done at oaksterdam university. Your answer is now 1 above this comment^^^
Your Welcome.
Good Luck
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