Welcome to the Growery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!
This is coming down to a matter of opinion now. You are refusing to see where gun ownership as a political activity fits into multiple points of that explanation. I could write an entire essay on this but I feel like I would be wasting my time with you. Besides, I have already shown how your facts have issues in the factual correctness department.
Hawaii has really strict gun laws. Due to this, hardly anybody here owns guns. Despite being an area with one of the densest populations in the united states, people hardly ever get killed here. When it does happen, it is a crazy huge deal and they show the same damn incident on the news for weeks after it happens. Kind of strange that when there are no guns, people aren't getting killed.
There isn't really a right or wrong solution to the problem though. Taking away all the legal guns will cause the black market to thrive. There isn't anything saying that legal gun owners aren't going to kill people, just like the illegal gun owners could do. Education for guns is a bullshit solution. You don't go out and shoot people because you haven't been properly educated about guns, you kill people because you are pissed off and you want somebody to die. Taking away the mandatory waiting period is the dumbest fucking thing ever. Now anybody that has a fight with their spouse or catches them cheating can go buy a gun while filled with raw emotion from the shock of an event. This is worse for people under the age of 25, where the brain isn't fully developed and anger causes severe lack in judgement.
What people don't understand about taking away American guns is that gun ownership is that is deters other countries from attacking us. Now we have people that kill themselves to do damage because they don't stand a chance to survive the attack. It's one big, never ending cycle.
There does need to be more laws regarding gun control, but I don't think they should be completely taken away. It's not like owning guns would ever help us if our government turned on us. An AR15 has no chance against drones, planes, ships, nuclear bombs, ect. Or are we saying that citizens should be armed well enough to take on our government like our 2nd amendment was intended. Let's give everybody tactical nukes. Celebrate your second amendment rights buy buying 2, get one free!
Maybe if police shifted their budgets to fight against violence and illegal firearms instead of cannabis, we might get somewhere. Instead, they are just using the easiest means possible to maximize their budgets. There is a way to fix all of this, but there are too many opinions to get anything productive done on the matter.
Quote: cheezymold said: Hawaii has really strict gun laws. Due to this, hardly anybody here owns guns. Despite being an area with one of the densest populations in the united states, people hardly ever get killed here. When it does happen, it is a crazy huge deal and they show the same damn incident on the news for weeks after it happens. Kind of strange that when there are no guns, people aren't getting killed.
There isn't really a right or wrong solution to the problem though. Taking away all the legal guns will cause the black market to thrive. There isn't anything saying that legal gun owners aren't going to kill people, just like the illegal gun owners could do. Education for guns is a bullshit solution. You don't go out and shoot people because you haven't been properly educated about guns, you kill people because you are pissed off and you want somebody to die. Taking away the mandatory waiting period is the dumbest fucking thing ever. Now anybody that has a fight with their spouse or catches them cheating can go buy a gun while filled with raw emotion from the shock of an event. This is worse for people under the age of 25, where the brain isn't fully developed and anger causes severe lack in judgement.
What people don't understand about taking away American guns is that gun ownership is that is deters other countries from attacking us. Now we have people that kill themselves to do damage because they don't stand a chance to survive the attack. It's one big, never ending cycle.
There does need to be more laws regarding gun control, but I don't think they should be completely taken away. It's not like owning guns would ever help us if our government turned on us. An AR15 has no chance against drones, planes, ships, nuclear bombs, ect. Or are we saying that citizens should be armed well enough to take on our government like our 2nd amendment was intended. Let's give everybody tactical nukes. Celebrate your second amendment rights buy buying 2, get one free!
Maybe if police shifted their budgets to fight against violence and illegal firearms instead of cannabis, we might get somewhere. Instead, they are just using the easiest means possible to maximize their budgets. There is a way to fix all of this, but there are too many opinions to get anything productive done on the matter.
this is invalid. you would have 0 deaths a year if you were armed.
--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
Thank you for proving my point with the video. Just owning a gun in the United States is not making a political statement. Owning a gun in England is making a statement but that is cause they are illegal there. They are not here so there is no statement to be made. In fact according to your video in England at one time they we're required to own a gun 2:50 minutes in. In that case not owning a gun would be the political statement would it not? Now if they are ever made illegal and the owner of the gun decides he's not going to turn it in then owning the gun is making a statement but we are not at that point here in the US so the only statement being made by just buying a fully legal gun is "I like guns" which is no more of a political statement at this point then saying "I like bananas" when you buy fully legal bananas.
Like you said
Quote: Logic and common sense win out again.
As far as how many people want stricter gun laws and how many don't I've seen 4 polls and got 4 different answers but here's the thing none of the polls matter because unless you come out and ask us 95% don't give a shit either way. Until we clicked this thread 95% of us here didn't give a shit and as soon as 95% of us post a answer we won't give a shit when we click away. One thing for sure is we don't give a shit enough to get up and vote on it. That's why the NRA gets there way when they only have 5 million members. Thats why everybody bitches about Obama as President but nobody gives that much of a shit. Not enough to go and vote on it. Only 54% of the registered voters voted in the last election.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
I'm gonna buy another gun so I can take my old gun out back and put it out of its misery....
Such is the way of a Southerner
But in all seriousness...guns and their use for non-lethal purposes are fun as hell, along with archery and whatnot. Perhaps we need to re-examine the environment that we cultivate in the US, and how said environment seems to breed excessive violence lately.
Maybe the countries that are progressive enough to try strict gun control are also progressive enough to invest more in the quality of life for all citizens, rather than focusing on the average median income and not worrying about how the money is used, or the outliers of the population. Banning tools that have a demonstrated history of violence is too simple of a solution, and like many controversial issues in the US, seems to be more of a scapegoat that distracts from the real issue...while being simple enough for even the dumbest individual to get mad about and feel like they know the answer to a more perfect world.
-------------------- “The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
Quote: It's not like owning guns would ever help us if our government turned on us. An AR15 has no chance against drones, planes, ships, nuclear bombs, ect. Or are we saying that citizens should be armed well enough to take on our government like our 2nd amendment was intended. Let's give everybody tactical nukes. Celebrate your second amendment rights buy buying 2, get one free!
A "tyrannical government" need not be the entire government involved in a military operation against their own citizens involving drones and tanks etc... We do govern ourselves and our government is made up of other citizens. Citizens with power and influence. Lets not forget a modern example of a citizen exercising their 2nd amendment right against a tyrannical splinter of our own government and effecting change that has likely prevented this tyranny since the Ruby Ridge incident (and WACO also soon after).
"The controversial standoff spawned a nationwide debate on the use of force by federal law enforcement agencies, and a U.S. Senate panel accused the federal agencies involved of “substantial failures” in their handling of the Ruby Ridge operation. Of particular controversy was an FBI “rule of engagement” implemented at the beginning of the Ruby Ridge siege that stated “any armed adult male observed in the vicinity of the Weaver cabin could and should be killed.”" So the first person the FBI shot and killed (after shooting the dog) was a 14 year old boy (armed), followed up by shooting his mother holding an infant...
That seems clearly unconstitutional and yes, even tyrannical and by our own government, hmmm. It was because Weaver stood up and defended himself by way of the 2nd amendment that enabled the first amendment via public outcry through the press to change the government policies and personnel that allowed this to happen via senate committee hearings and a task force.
My interpretation of the intent of the 2nd is basically the same as the 1st, to protect the rest of the bill of rights in a situation that is so extreme that the right to use the power of free speech just is not enough. I believe it was meant to be a sort of last line of defense against tyranny in general from those who govern us, this does not need to be the entire US Army or a squadron of mini gun laden blackhawks - it could be just a couple of feds on a power trip like Kahoe, chief of the FBI violent crimes division who was responsible for the Ruby Ridge incident and went to jail for it. I think this makes the 2nd amendment very relevant even in modern times.
I think it was also meant to deter the Brits to some extent certainly giving the impression that all new Americans would be armed. This type of deterrent can be very effective, just look at Switzerland during WWII - the Germans abandoned that small country because every citizen was armed and trained to shoot BY LAW, yes the damn Nazis were afraid to mess with them. To this day the Swiss are a proud gun owning people, In fact I have a Swiss K31 rifle that has the name and address of its original owner in Switzerland written on a card underneath the buttplate from over 50 years ago. Anyone know what the violent crime rate is in Switzerland???
Oh, one more thing the Ruby Ridge incident illustrates nicely - the guy was in trouble for selling illegal sawed off shotguns! Those gun laws didn't keep him did they...
molon labe (and yes I do like legally owning guns and yes i do vote...)
-------------------- Opinions WILL vary!
This is all just an internet fantasy, ruse, delusion, fabrication etc...
Let's all just quietly go back to our 5 word zingers and jokes. Let's be honest... No one actually wants to come here and read, "yada yada yada" 4,000 times.
My opinion is better than your opinion!!!
--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
I'm all for strict gun laws. Just don't take my guns
If people want to kill they're going to. Guns or not. The people involved in these mass shootings planned these events out. If guns were not available to them they would have found another way.
just my opinion on the matter.
I'm up in the north east. My town has 1 grocery store, 2 gas stations, and 4 gun stores
the government will never take our guns. they may continue to scare us with threats, but those threats are only distractions from more pressing issues.
-------------------- "Marijuana may not be addictive, but growing it is" - ED Rosenthal
Maine Caregiver In 100% compliance with Maine state laws.
Quote: poor boy said: Let's all just quietly go back to our 5 word zingers and jokes. Let's be honest... No one actually wants to come here and read, "yada yada yada" 4,000 times.
Really, there is no way I am reading these long ass fucking posts on subjects that have been beaten to death already.
At first I thought the OP was genius because it was a great troll post that got you guys all riled up, but now this shit is just annoying.
Quote: Magash said: Thank you for proving my point with the video. Just owning a gun in the United States is not making a political statement. Owning a gun in England is making a statement but that is cause they are illegal there. They are not here so there is no statement to be made. In fact according to your video in England at one time they we're required to own a gun 2:50 minutes in. In that case not owning a gun would be the political statement would it not? Now if they are ever made illegal and the owner of the gun decides he's not going to turn it in then owning the gun is making a statement but we are not at that point here in the US so the only statement being made by just buying a fully legal gun is "I like guns" which is no more of a political statement at this point then saying "I like bananas" when you buy fully legal bananas.
Like you said
Quote: Logic and common sense win out again.
As far as how many people want stricter gun laws and how many don't I've seen 4 polls and got 4 different answers but here's the thing none of the polls matter because unless you come out and ask us 95% don't give a shit either way. Until we clicked this thread 95% of us here didn't give a shit and as soon as 95% of us post a answer we won't give a shit when we click away. One thing for sure is we don't give a shit enough to get up and vote on it. That's why the NRA gets there way when they only have 5 million members. Thats why everybody bitches about Obama as President but nobody gives that much of a shit. Not enough to go and vote on it. Only 54% of the registered voters voted in the last election.
Then go ahead and tell me it's a political activity then cause it's not for the exact same reasons.
Go head and explain the political activity if guns aren't illegal yet. Go head tell us how the political activity is different then the statement made when buying a gun.
Comon man back it up. Tell us the what the political activity is in a country that guns are legal in.
I'll make the same statement I made before with your words put in.
Buying a fully legal gun is no more a political activity then buying a fully legal banana. Guy goes to a store buys a gun takes it home puts it away till the next hunting trip. Please explain the political activity in that. In this country buying a gun cause you like to hunt is no more a political activity then buying car cause you like to drive.
Quote: Can you not differentiate between the two?
Quote: My words were 'Political activity'
Then maybe it will help you to know what the words mean before you say them. Here I'll help ya.
POLITICAL ACTIVITY " “Political activity” is defined as follows: 1) contacting, or urging the public to contact, members of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting or opposing legislation; or 2) advocating the a doption or rejection of legislation; or 3) the recruiting, supporting, or hinderi ng of political candidates. “Legislative body” means any civil government or any agency of government, any decision- making body within the community or a co llege or university or school, and the general public/university/school community making a decision in a referendum. “Public” means the persons in the gene ral community or any part of it. “Legislation” includes any action by Congress, by any state legislature, by any local council or governing body, by the public in a referendum, initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure, by any multi-state or multi- national or international body, or by any governing body of a college or university or school or a college or university or school system, including student government, except insofar as the legisla tion of such college or university or school governing body directly affects the associated grou p. The term “candidate for public office” means an individual who of fers himself, or is proposed by others, as a contestant for an elective pub lic or other office, whether such offices be international, national, state, local, re gional, or special district, or within the college or university or school or stude nt government. Activities that constitute participation or intervention in a political campaign on behalf or in opposition to a candidate include, but are not limited to adver tising, or the publication of distribution of written or printed statements, or the making of oral statements on behalf of or in opposition to such a candidate."
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Quote: drawde said: A firearm is a political instrument because of how it changes interactions between people.
For example, your ownership represents a statistic by which politics are influenced. Therefore simply owning influences the political spectrum. How could you possibly deny that owning does not do this? Do you suggest that if all the laws in the United States were the same, but nobody actually owned a firearm, that laws would not be influenced?
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
[Re: 
Edit 
Reply 
