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 dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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 mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? 
#772201 - 03/15/15 01:14 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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for some odd reason I cant recover a temp password for the shroomery so im gonna ask some of you guys ,
last summer I shut down my mushroom farm due to to much contamination !
this summer im planning to use a 8x8 tent inside a bedroom to do my growing,
what do you guys think of running a couple 100 cfm fans hooked up to hepa filters to clean the air and blow it into the tent ,anyone have some experience with a similar situation ? I was also thinking about using an ozone generator ,any thoughts on this ?
thanks
ps I would have posted in other growables but I don't see much traffic through there
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 drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772203 - 03/15/15 02:16 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think you are looking too far down the line for your source of contamination.
Also need more info on your process.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: drawde]
#772206 - 03/15/15 02:48 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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are you saying im planning to far into the future ?
for my process I use rye grain to coir and verm that goes into large roast pans in a bin .my process is down pat with great success.
winter time is no problem but as the seasons change there has been to much air borne contams and im loosing %50 to %70 of my yields which aint cool .
everything is down other then being able to deal with the high volume of shit floating in the air in summer.
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772212 - 03/15/15 03:53 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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No I'm saying that if you are having problems with contamination that the air surrounding your fruiting chambers likely isn't the problem.
Or at least the main problem.
Chances are your jars aren't coming out totally clean.
If you have 100% clean, fully colonized jars, you should be able to fruit in relatively dirty conditions with considerable success.
That isn't to say that you shouldn't have the environment that surrounds your fruiting chambers nice and clean.
Poor conditions around the fruiting chamber can definitely stress your grow.
But like I said your main problem is likely somewhere earlier on in your steps.
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cheezymold
That Guy
Registered: 12/26/13
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: drawde]
#772214 - 03/15/15 04:15 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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What he said. You are spawning in open air already. If your jars are clean, the mycelium should already have a foothold in the substrate and will usually eat any contaminant that lands on top.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: cheezymold]
#772216 - 03/15/15 04:52 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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if the jars were not coming out clean would it not show the signs through out the winter months as well ?
I don't understand why it would express contamination in spring ,summer n fall .. and not winter with the exact same method.
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Edited by dmtcorey (03/15/15 04:54 PM)
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cheezymold
That Guy
Registered: 12/26/13
Posts: 595
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772219 - 03/15/15 05:39 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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There are likely more contaminants in the air during the warmer months in your household. Many contaminants thrive in the same environment as the mushrooms so the heat causes more problems. It is most likely that you are getting your contamination during inoculation.
I cannot avoid a hot environment where I live during any time of the year so I have to take special precautions. I make sure the room I am working in has no air movement and I mist water throughout the room and inside the still air box so it pulls the particles out of the air.
Also, I would not worry about a room with a hepa filter. Unless you are going to decontaminate your clothes every time you go inside, this is just a waste. Instead, I would use the filter to make a laminar flow hood. Also, you don't really want to use ozone in a living space. It will irritate your lungs badly.
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thedrake
N00B
Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 101
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: cheezymold]
#772221 - 03/15/15 05:42 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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are you pasturizing your coir? or just mixing it with hot water?
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: thedrake]
#772226 - 03/15/15 06:06 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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What these two guys said.
There's a lot better things you can be doing to achieve a cleaner grow than filtering your fruiting room.
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oeric mckenna
Pure Indica
Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: drawde]
#772343 - 03/16/15 05:49 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've grown in some dirty environments with minimal issues.
Its all about the race to full colonization of you bulk...
Most often, any contaminants that show up were there from the beginning.
The key is to start clean.
I have many good tips for you if you run into trouble again.
You can always play the ph game too and give molds a parameter problem
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***Handing someone your life's work....in a single seed =  ***
HIGHER THAN A GEORGIA PINE
Oeric's Winter Grow Projects
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: oeric mckenna]
#772380 - 03/16/15 07:46 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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well ill take all the tips I can get ,I think my game is pretty tight ,out of the last maybe 60 jars of spawn only one got contamination ,
im working with the z strain one of the fastest colonizers ,and im getting contamination on fully colonized trays as well as some that are colonizing of course .
I just don't know what im over looking and its funny its only happing in the spring summer fall ,all I can think of is its from the extra heat and air borne contams,spawn is getting zapped for an hour ,only one jar out of 60 got hit this winter I mean what eles can I do ...where are these contaminations coming from ?why is it smooth in the winter ? im lost ,what else and where else could I look?
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: drawde]
#772386 - 03/16/15 07:52 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cheezymold said:
There are likely more contaminants in the air during the warmer months in your household. Many contaminants thrive in the same environment as the mushrooms so the heat causes more problems. It is most likely that you are getting your contamination during inoculation.
I cannot avoid a hot environment where I live during any time of the year so I have to take special precautions. I make sure the room I am working in has no air movement and I mist water throughout the room and inside the still air box so it pulls the particles out of the air.
Also, I would not worry about a room with a hepa filter. Unless you are going to decontaminate your clothes every time you go inside, this is just a waste. Instead, I would use the filter to make a laminar flow hood. Also, you don't really want to use ozone in a living space. It will irritate your lungs badly.
I turn the shower on to fog the bathroom ,I bleach spray in my still air box ,I wipe my spawn jar with alcohol .Quote:
thedrake said:
are you pasteurizing your coir? or just mixing it with hot water?
im pasteurizing ,Quote:
drawde said:
What these two guys said.
There's a lot better things you can be doing to achieve a cleaner grow than filtering your fruiting room.
what are the better things I could be doing ?
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772406 - 03/16/15 08:39 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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You could be using a flow hood like another poster mentioned.
You could be not wiping down your jars with alcohol, not sure what you are trying to achieve with that but it's certainly not sterilization.
Do you pressure cook your jars before inoculation?
Even if most of your jars appear to be clean, they are not necessarily clean.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: drawde]
#772410 - 03/16/15 09:17 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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flow hood I will add to the arsenal...
I wipe the spawn jar down to help remove any contaminant it may pick up in the room where they colonize ,the jars that come from the pc go right into the still air box so I don't wipe them down .
yes I pc my jars for 1 hour,and I guess letting the hydrated substraight sit for 24 hours may help to kill contaminants to.
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oeric mckenna
Pure Indica
Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772448 - 03/17/15 12:08 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Watch your pasteurization temps too... too hot is bad mmkayyym. longer at lower temp is ideal.
Not sure what coir you're using but eco earth is sketch...
I recommend hydrofarm coir.
Also, yeah.. alcohol doesn't kill mold spores. Bleach/water mix does though.
When you have issues again, test your spawn.
Use a little garden lime to raise the ph of your coir and case have a grain jar and fruit it.
If that jar contaminates during fruiting, you have bad spawn.
like Drawdeis saying, sometimes contaminants are there since the beginning and don't show their ugly heads till fruiting
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***Handing someone your life's work....in a single seed = ***
HIGHER THAN A GEORGIA PINE
Oeric's Winter Grow Projects
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cheezymold
That Guy
Registered: 12/26/13
Posts: 595
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772451 - 03/17/15 12:47 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I haven't tried the shower technique before, but how are you scrubbing the air that way? If you keep the door closed during the steaming and the room is airtight, the steam stays in the air with the particles you are trying to get rid of. The steam wont sink until the temperature is reduced, which could take a long time in a sealed room. Either that, or you are opening the door to go in and out and then you have contaminants in the air again. Combine the heat from the shower and your alcohol burner, that would be one hot fucking bathroom to work in.
Do you work with agar or multispore? I have much better success with agar overall. Plus, it will get a foothold on the grain faster which will help prevent contamination. I wouldn't bother with G2G either unless you are doing a shitload of jars. Just cut however many wedges you need for your amount of jars. One thing that is worth noting for cubes specifically is that the genetics kind of degenerate after a couple of generations unless you change what you grow it in. The easiest way is to get a few different types of agar, and rotate out which one you use each cycle. Another thing you will notice about agar is that you will notice any contamination almost immediately. This is a good way to test your sterile technique.
These days, I only grow reishi. I don't even bother with the still air box unless I'm working with agar because the reishi grows so strong and fast, it eats any contaminant for a snack. Pretty cool to observe actually lol.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: cheezymold]
#772490 - 03/17/15 10:00 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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oeric,
I am adding gypsn to the coir but I will try using the lime and see what happens ,ill also try testing a couple different coir sources to .
I will wipe the spawn with bleach instead of the alcohol ,didn't realized the alcohol didn't kill contams..
cheezymold ,
I had assumed that steaming the room would drop most air borne particle out of the air ..
I don't use an alcohol burner I had always had good success wiping my syringes with alcohol I will use maybe bleach instead if you guys are saying about the alcohol not killing contams .
Im not set up with agar yet im just going multispore and cloning ,agar is the plan once I get my flow hood built .
thanks guys 
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Edited by dmtcorey (03/17/15 10:01 AM)
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CrushNazT
Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 927
Loc: Colorado 
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772493 - 03/17/15 10:17 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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i think you're making the grow more difficult than you need to. just use tubs instead of a tent. way easier to control every aspect of it. if you have everything in a tent, if you get a contamination, the whole place is probably fucked. if you use tubs, you can just isolate the problem tub, as long as the contamination isnt throughout ALL of the spawn... which is where it always comes from if you're just using the plain coir/verm tek like i did.
hydrofarm coir is SHIT - use Botanicare's Coco grow. cheap and very easy to break up by hand. use a knife to split the brick then go from there with your hands.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: CrushNazT]
#772550 - 03/17/15 02:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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botanacare is one make I have used ,and I do use a knife to process it .
I use large enough bins to host 8 separate trays each so if one tray gets hit I can remove it only instead of the whole main bin being destroyed .
my theory is using a tent inside of a room which will give me a more controllable environment where I can pull a percentage of contamination out of the air ,with just an open room the contamination comes in every time the door gets open so I cant see how pulling air borne particles out of the air in a double chamber set up is something that is not an asset .
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772552 - 03/17/15 02:15 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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since you guys seem to be implying its an issue with the spawn not being fully clean and the contamination being more active with the summer heat I may try cooling the environment but then theres the factor of shit being pulled in through the ac, have to think more yet I guess
maybe a portable ac unit could work that pulls air from inside instead of the outside
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Edited by dmtcorey (03/17/15 02:16 PM)
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Deadkndys420
Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 8,703
Loc: █████
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772553 - 03/17/15 02:21 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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You are not really "pulling" anythig out unless you use a hepa filter. Imo your problem is your temps. Ideally you want it around 73-76. Contams like trich thrive when temps are.in the 80s. How many flushes do you get before you see green?
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CrushNazT
Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 927
Loc: Colorado
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: Deadkndys420]
#772561 - 03/17/15 02:52 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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make sure you PC your rye long enough. if you get any contamination from rye/coco/ver, it definitely came from the rye. i tossed out 2 bags recently that were almost fully colonized but had just started growing green/black shit after i had mixed the bags up, it was hiding inside! i knew it was cause i slacked off and didnt PC long enough, so i did it again and PCd for 2 full hours and had zero problem with contam.
i think you're too worried about "outside" contamination. the coir is pretty resistant to contamination and so is any completely healthy fully colonized grain. so if you get contamination, i'd say that its 99% likely the grain wasnt sterilized long enough, and thats where it came from.
can you post a pic of your grow? im curious to see how this thing is set up.
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cheezymold
That Guy
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: CrushNazT]
#772575 - 03/17/15 03:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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At the very least, use a lighter and torch your needle until it gets cherry red. do not wipe the needle after. Remember, alcohol sanatizes, not sterilizes. I really don't think the problem is coming from your fruiting environment. It never gets below 85f in my apartment,and usually stays around 95f during the day.
Seriously, you should start working with agar. I got everything I need to make it for less than $10, and I won't be running out anytime soon. Not only can you isolate a genome, you can also clean up your culture. Your jars will colonize much faster and your crop will be more uniform so the space you are using will be more efficient. After I started using agar, I could never go back to crapshoot multipurpose again.
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CrushNazT
Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 927
Loc: Colorado
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: cheezymold]
#772592 - 03/17/15 04:55 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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jesus thats hot as balls in your apartment. where do you live?
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: CrushNazT] 3
#772593 - 03/17/15 05:06 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think our OP just need to get a better grasp on sterile technique in general, then he can start to zero in on his specific issues.
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cheezymold
That Guy
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: drawde]
#772608 - 03/17/15 05:50 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hawaii. I live in a concrete building, so it never cools off in this place. Just started growing buds and I have to run an a/c 24 hours in the tent.
Drawde is right though. It seems like you are getting lucky during the winter due to environmental changes. You are indeed getting the contaminants to stick to the steam, but the steam stays in the air while it is still hot, so that means contaminants still in the air.
Since I haven't seen how you do your work, I cannot say for sure what is going wrong, but I can list a few things that should help.
-Always flame your needle every single time it touches anything. This includes after the alcohol and the jar itself. I almost guarantee this is where your problem is coming from.
-The still air box is designed as it sounds. You want to make sure that your movements are slow and steady to disrupt the still air environment as little as possible.
-In my opinion, If you are going strait from PC to SAB, you shouldn't need to wipe the jar down. It just seems like you are adding more contaminants to it. Just use 70% iso on your gloves.
-Too much moisture in your grain is a huge issue too. I wouldn't inoculate unless you can slowly turned upside down without the grain sticking together. Putting too much water in the PC usually causes this.
Since you are using needles still, you might invest in some self healing injection ports for your jar lids.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: drawde]
#772712 - 03/18/15 09:10 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deadkndys420 said:
You are not really "pulling" anythig out unless you use a hepa filter. Imo your problem is your temps. Ideally you want it around 73-76. Contams like trich thrive when temps are.in the 80s. How many flushes do you get before you see green?
hey,using a hepa filter is part of the plan to capture air borne particals ,I ussaly pull 2 flushes. Quote:
CrushNazT said:
make sure you PC your rye long enough. if you get any contamination from rye/coco/ver, it definitely came from the rye. i tossed out 2 bags recently that were almost fully colonized but had just started growing green/black shit after i had mixed the bags up, it was hiding inside! i knew it was cause i slacked off and didnt PC long enough, so i did it again and PCd for 2 full hours and had zero problem with contam.
i think you're too worried about "outside" contamination. the coir is pretty resistant to contamination and so is any completely healthy fully colonized grain. so if you get contamination, i'd say that its 99% likely the grain wasnt sterilized long enough, and thats where it came from.
can you post a pic of your grow? im curious to see how this thing is set up.
gonna so 2 hours in the pc to try and get cleaner grain jars ,and I took my set up down due to im gonna be moving to a new location shortly or I would post a pic for you .Quote:
cheezymold said:
At the very least, use a lighter and torch your needle until it gets cherry red. do not wipe the needle after. Remember, alcohol sanatizes, not sterilizes. I really don't think the problem is coming from your fruiting environment. It never gets below 85f in my apartment,and usually stays around 95f during the day.
Seriously, you should start working with agar. I got everything I need to make it for less than $10, and I won't be running out anytime soon. Not only can you isolate a genome, you can also clean up your culture. Your jars will colonize much faster and your crop will be more uniform so the space you are using will be more efficient. After I started using agar, I could never go back to crapshoot multipurpose again.
hey cheezy ,gonna ad the burner to the arsenal as well plus a flow hood to so I have a space to work with agar and take my tech to the next phase.i just wiped down the jar of spawn that comes from the room I store my spawn I don't wipe the jars that come from the pc and thos lids are a good call to .Quote:
drawde said:
I think our OP just need to get a better grasp on sterile technique in general, then he can start to zero in on his specific issues.
thanks drawde you hit that shit from the start ,gave me a push in the right direction ,thank you
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Deadkndys420
Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 8,703
Loc: █████
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: dmtcorey]
#772730 - 03/18/15 12:34 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hm. Well it's not like you are getting it on your first flush so I'm thinking your jars are not the problem. As the mycelium produces "flushes" it will get weaker and weaker. And eventually starts succumbing to the contams that are present. It makes sense to me that it is colder in that room in the winter. So the contams take longer to germinate and eventually sporulate, so you get more flushes (trich is white before it releases its spores fyi). Hence why in the summer you only get two flushes. So I am sticking with my orginal idea that temperature is the reason why you see green before flush #3.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: mushroom farmers ,dealing with summertime contamination ? [Re: Deadkndys420]
#772819 - 03/19/15 10:01 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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in the summer I sometimes do get hit on the first flush,im lucky to pull 2 flushed per tray ! but like you say about the heat ,winter I keep the room 70 ,summer time its at least 80 so the 10 degrees difference is a huge difference ,but like these other guys say to I could do more to better my sterile tech as well .
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