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 phychotron
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly) 
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 Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent  [Re: murrtheblur]
#770633 - 03/01/15 08:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Spectrum king is a hard one because its a different style light. It appears to be very focused and very powerful. To the point that i've internet 'heard' they will burn your plants at 2 feet. It seems like more of a commercial/green house solution where you don't have the lights too close to the plants.
It has some cool features like being water proof, but I don't think it's for the tent growing market.
I can't make an opinion on it until I see some results.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: phychotron]
#770653 - 03/02/15 12:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The light I like right now is the XML650 that Advanced LED. Not currently for sale, but should be within the month or so. It's going to cost $1600 and they said it would cover a 5x5. I emailed them and they said that two of the new XTE400's ($2400 for both) would equal one XML650. They have different configurations of diodes, 5w XTE vs 10w XML. As much as I like the XTE400, I'm going to have to go with the XML650 next. Its two thirds the price to cover about the same area. A little less versatile, but the thing is pretty sweet.
They just started offering the lifetime warranty on the new fixtures, they will send you parts as long as they are in business. Because they're modular its going to be easy to fix and the replacement parts are relatively cheap.
I just had my DS400 burn out a bank of diodes 2.5 years into warranty. They sent the FedEx guy with the label, all I had to do was box it up and open the door and hand it to him. I had an older design from their first manufacturer they had problems with and this one only had a few patches of heat sink under the fans. They ended up replacing the whole light board and heat sink so that its full size. Basically giving me a whole new light right before my warranty ended. I asked how much for the repairs after warranty and he said anywhere between $65 and $650, and that's where he's going in and soldering in new diodes--no guarantee the diode right next to the one he just replaced isn't going to go out soon.
That's the problem with being non-modular. The Diamond Series is a good light, it produces really good bud, but the thing is not sustainable. No matter what LED you end up getting, make sure it is modular and easy to repair.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Rockahaus]
#770679 - 03/02/15 09:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know its tough finding that fixture/company to invest money in, but it really does help to get the higher end stuff. I was talking about the Mars 2 fixture on ICMAG recently and someone who has never used one was all defending them about how they're not that bad, blah blah blah, but when I pointed out that after 12 inches it no longer has enough PAR light to flower cannabis properly (@700 µmol for lowest branches) the thread just sorta died. I've never used one either, but I knew from the go they were garbage, then my friend's room mate got two and I was convinced.
And the mars 2 did sort of impress me with its heat sink, one of the most noticeable features (finned aluminum being kinda rare on those cheapies) but that's the deceptive part. It gives the illusion of quality. They even claim "5w diodes" but the whole fixture runs an average of 2.25w (180w/80 diodes) when you include fans, so its actually less without cooling. To compare, Advanced LED is running their 5w Cree diodes at 3.9w each--mars is only 57% of the wattage. My Diamond Series with 3w diodes are running at 1.95 with cooling.
With Advanced LED, sure they're still importing the lights from China, but I tell people they NEED to pay one of those types of companies that are actively developing the lights to work for our cause. They are trying to push the light to the limit, unlike other companies that really are just re-sellers of generic fixtures--Like GrowBlu (works good but too focused and overpriced for its efficiency) selling a common fixture that they most likely had no part in developing.
Advanced LED just built a machine/robot that will test the par data on individual diodes so that they can combine the best in the future generations. They've also tested a bunch of spectrum before going with their new series of lights
So here is the XML350 for $1000 (they claimed in an email will outperform a new XTE400 by about 10%)that they say will cover a 4x4 (I think that's pushing it, but again I've never used one personally). I would suggest holding out for the XML650 and spending a bit of extra cash just to get the added kick. There are more than double the amount of 10w Cree diodes on there--9 modules and (10) 10w-diodes on the XML350 vs 16 modules and (24) 10w Cree's on the XML650.
Check out the un boxing of one of the first one's.
I was looking for other LED companies to invest in (got a GrowBlu because it was modular) but Advanced put an end to that search when they started coming out with new lights. They really are working on developing the lights and making it as good as possible. If they were just a generic reseller I'd say you'd be fine rolling the dice with anyone of those companies but they offer more to their lights than just covering the 3yr warranty period other companies do.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Edited by phychotron (03/02/15 09:35 AM)
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Rockahaus]
#770788 - 03/03/15 11:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you get one I'd love to see the thing in action, are you planning on doing any grow logs or anything like that?
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Rahz]
#771652 - 03/11/15 10:00 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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That is pretty sweet looking for a home made fixture. Do you have any photos of it in action?
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Rahz]
#771682 - 03/11/15 05:28 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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I ordered a few LED's and switches for a flashlight project last night and this thread got me thinking about getting a fixture of my own started. I'm thinking about getting copper heat sink though. Then maybe putting it in a large piece of PVC and have air channel through that, although I would prefer passive cooling.
Not sure I'd go with the larger watt diodes, maybe sticking with 10w maximum to spread the light out as much as possible over the canopy. I'm thinking two or three skinny bars that are about 42" long each, separated evenly and mounted as one fixture.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Magash]
#771730 - 03/12/15 02:13 AM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Ignorance is bliss.. I love how HPS growers go around pretending you can't get dense bud with LED. 
Lets see some side by sides of an HPS beating LED in THC and terpene production
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Rahz]
#771735 - 03/12/15 04:09 AM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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I didn't realize it was that expensive and at that price I'd start to build my own.
With home made LED it seems like the best idea is to invest in a good/oversize heat sink and tap it out to receive certain size diodes, like the 20mm MCPCB some diodes are mounted on. Then as time goes on you can just unscrew and replace with newer diodes and drivers as technology improves. Once you understand the basics of driving the diodes you should be able to replace and upgrade relatively easily. But the part that should never break or need replacing would be the heat sink. I think passive cooling is the way to go, but its not cost effective for companies to sell you that huge of a block of aluminum, not in today's disposable society.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Magash]
#771736 - 03/12/15 04:27 AM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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I've tried to explain the heat concept before, but here goes:
Infra red light, emitted in excess by an HID bulb, shines on every surface and is absorbed by everything it touches, as heat. It cannot be cooled before it strikes a surface, it must hit the plant, be absorbed as heat, then shed into the air. Your HID bulbs require a cooler air temperature for plants because it needs to drive heat from hot(plant) to cold(air) via temperature differential. I'm sure you understand that the larger the difference, the faster the rate.
That IR radiation is also hitting every surface that receives light, tent, equipment, etc. which needs to be cooled to keep the air cool. IR is also hitting your thc molecules. notice the HPS has a higher delta-9 (activated) THC %.
With LED the heat is absorbed into a heat sink then transferred to the air and vented out the top. If you leave it sealed in a tent that shit will heat up, no doubt. But considerably less than a sealed HID tent. I thought my friends HID tent was hot, then I realized his ballast was outside the tent and hot as fuck as well. LED's just don't get the equipment itself that hot.
If your LED fixtures don't have an adequate heat sink they're going to run the diodes too hot and burn up. Its like my CPU. I had an OEM intel heat sink on my i5 quad core-- encoding an album to MP3's would heat my CPU up to 99C and shut down. Got a new cooler and can't get that bitch past 50C no matter what I do.
Do any of those UFO's have a finned aluminum heat sink or just a flat shit sheet?
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
Edited by phychotron (03/12/15 04:30 AM)
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Magash]
#771737 - 03/12/15 04:40 AM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Here's a larger comparison using the style light I imagine when building an LED.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Magash]
#771764 - 03/12/15 11:21 AM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Do you have a name or a brand or just straight up generic?
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Rockahaus]
#771799 - 03/12/15 05:46 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rockahaus said:
The main reason for going with LED is I'm a disabled vet on disability and have a fixed income. I have to keep my monthly bills low. My electric bill gets up to $250 - $300 a month just running A/C in the summer not growing anything. Between the watts HPS pull and the added A/C needed, it would just cost to much month to month. At this moment, I'm getting paid to go to school, and I'm using that money to pay for the light and all the other equipment I need while I have extra monthly income. Just got my tent yesterday, so I'm going to start some seeds soon.
The problem with the electric bill is that it goes up really fast after you use a set amount of electricity. Here its a second price tier after 600kwh, third after 1200, then I think the next one is only at 1500, half the power of previous tiers. My electricity ranges from 90 to 200 depending on what appliances I use. About $60 on the garden per month if I stay within the lower tiers but more if I'm using more juice around the house, as I assume the garden consumes the most costly electricity. So I'd say about $90 when in the tier that's close to 50% more per kw-h.
And what it really comes down to is if I remember to turn the sleep timer on the monitor before I go to bed. A 60" plasma TV sucks down the juice, but also heats the apartment in the winter. You might need to launch a campaign around the house to eliminate all things non essential--unplugging unused appliances, keeping lights off or on timers, always turn the TV off when your not watching it, lower the temperature of your water heater in the summer, etc... you'd be surprised how much you can shave off your bill sometimes.
I'll let the garden get to over 100 in the summer with no extra cooling other than keeping the fan on high. Like I mentioned above you have a lot less thermal energy to shed from the plant leaf. I originally got the AC for those hot days but said fuck it its better to cool my room when its 95-100 degrees out, they're plants, they could take it in the wild when its that hot. I have moderately cool summers but its known for some pretty wicked heat waves. If they lasted longer than two weeks I'd consider some sort of cooling option but the plants can take it if your set up for good air exchange.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: Magash]
#771817 - 03/12/15 07:15 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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This photo somewhat shows how the heat varies. Sorry if it came from an LED vendor, but I can attest to the fact that this is no exaggeration. With LED the heat never has to interact with the plant/environment in the same way an HPS does. That is why it is fundamentally better for the plant. It is much gentler on the plant to apply just the required energy than it is to give an excess of non-usable energy.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: newbie2shoes]
#771821 - 03/12/15 07:17 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
newbie2shoes said:
For what its worth I have a kessil H380 and its growing my cacti as well as other plants in my grow tent!!
Kessil seems like a decent way to spend a lot of money on a small area. How much did you spend and how much area does it cover?
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: newbie2shoes]
#771901 - 03/13/15 05:31 AM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Finding that perfect LED for your needs is what is critical. Its one of the reason's you can't just universally recommend a brand or fixture.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: Best LED light for 4x4 tent [Re: newbie2shoes]
#771946 - 03/13/15 12:49 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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The small grows tend to benefit the most from LED. Too small for HID, too important to use CFL (and less heat). What are those other LED's your using? I burned my kill-a-watt up leaving it plugged in to try and record how many kw-h it used over an entire grow (over 1000w or so). Best to capture it over the course of a 24 hour period and calculate your usage by number of days in flower.
HID'ers like to bash LED because the early stuff got a lot of people pissed off. They still advertise in the same way and a lot of the same cheap stuff still popular amongst newbs. The stuff you find at the hydro stores they have to frequent to get their bulbs don't stock shit worth of anything decent usually--generic with a sticker. Then people return them and they don't want to sell them.
HID growers tend to get the cheaper LED's and don't change the variables in the garden and expect it to perform the same way as the HID based garden. Its hard to realize that their entire system is based around the bulb and cooling the plants. There is so much conventional knowledge about these that people don't want to give up the math and everything they know--stuck on coverage area per light and whatnot. New things tend to scare people.
Then again, haters gonna hate...
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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