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 phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly) 
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 enzym products 
#761514 - 12/13/14 06:55 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm looking to buy some more Cannazym but was thinking it'd be nice to find a cheaper alternative if there is one. Just wondering what brands have good reputation and what everyone prefers. Cannazym is $116/5L @ 9mL/gal, it comes to about 21 cents per gallon. Its the most expensive part of my nutrient regiment now that I've replaced Canna Boost with MBFerts' hormone booster (which also cuts out Canna's Rhizotonic as well.)
The zym is costing about 45% of my total nutrient costs.
I usually get my stuff from ebay, as they're usually the cheapest and fastest shippers.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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CrushNazT
Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 927
Loc: Colorado
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Re: enzym products [Re: phychotron]
#761516 - 12/13/14 07:06 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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i personally use ANs sensizym. i recently started using it about 2 months ago, so i cant really give a review for it. its the first enzyme product ive used. everything ive read about it sounds good, and the people at the grow store said it was some good stuff.
http://www.greners.com/i/nutrients-additives/brand/advanced-nutrients/advanced-nutrients-sensizym.html
we use hygrozyme at work. i dont know how i feel about it. the company seems kinda shady and the website looks like something from the 90s with zero help or information about whats in hygrozyme.
http://www.hygrozyme.com/
Edited by CrushNazT (12/13/14 07:07 AM)
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: enzym products [Re: CrushNazT]
#761519 - 12/13/14 08:00 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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The grow store will tell you everything is good stuff.
To the OP and whomever concerned.
MutliZen from HG is $55.95L it's very concentrated too @ 3.8 ml/ gal dosage.
You can free yourself for the "need" of enzyme products if you make a bio filter ie. bioponics, this can be done by adding a wet/dry filter to your reservoir, and the occasional inoculation of compost tea. This IMO is a better investment than enzyme products.
On numerous occasions I've eliminated additives and run them against a very basic nutrient regiment as a control and received varying results. Enzyme products were the sketchiest of the bunch.
One experiment I remembered was 4 different 4x8' tents running 2 4x4' on different reservoirs they were admittedly run at different times and I lost the exact data. The base nutrients were one part Dutch Master one, One part FNG, something very similar to the 8/16 Lucas, and 2 part Aqua along with a bloom booster combo side B had root stimulation concoctions added I believe roots excel from hg, whatever from canna (clearly wasn't a winner), hydrozyme + advanced B1, and roots + multizen.
Results as I vaguely remember, the stuff from canna shit the bed completely and was nearly identical to the control, the hydrozyme and b1 was close enough to the control to not be worth the additional money spent, and the HG stuff paid off handsomely. However the HG roots was suspect to PGRs or hormones as no one could find anything alive in it when it's supposed to be a bacterial inoculant so I ran the Multizen alone against a control with just B1 and it didn't do much at all. Root Mass, root vigor, overallm plant health were all about the same.
Having experience with bioponics, aquaponics, and bacterial inoculants I feel comfortable saying they're 1. cheap as fuck 2. will actually boost plant vigor as much as if not more than any bottled/powdered inoculant for a fraction of the price.
DISCLAIMER:
Root Rot is just something I don't experience, I'm in Canada and I also primarily use Ebb and flow coco and Aquaponics both of which are not subject to root rot, so I can't really speak for the enzyme products effectiveness in that regard. If you're using an enzyme product to 1. increase vigor 2. break down roots/death to reuse coco 3. increase root health all I can say is under my conditions the products are useless as far as I can tell.
I do have a "no bullshit" hydroponics store owner friend who uses MultiZen which he replaced Hydrozyme with and swears by it. He says it does in fact make a HUGE difference when using PEAT because peat breaks down and creates a low oxygen environment for your roots which often times leads to root rot.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,048
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: enzym products [Re: phychotron]
#761535 - 12/13/14 11:07 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm a fan of hydrozyme myself.
Tho I won't use it in the res, unless I see some kind of root issue starting. Much like Koons, I feel it's a waste if the plants aren't in neeed of it.
However, I clean all my hydroton. I just dump all my root balls into a a barrel with an air stone. Then fill with water add 4ml hydrozyme per gallon till the hydroton is covered. With in two weeks even the rapid rooter plugs are clean.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: enzym products [Re: Stoneth]
#761536 - 12/13/14 11:47 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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You can just use peroxide, rinse, boil, repeat to clean hydroton. You might even be able to pressure cook the stuff.
Whatever the case, always ask yourself what you're getting out of these very expensive plastic bottles of stuff.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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CrushNazT
Registered: 07/23/13
Posts: 927
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
The grow store will tell you everything is good stuff.
sounds like you have a shitty grow store.
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: enzym products [Re: CrushNazT]
#761547 - 12/13/14 02:38 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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I reuse coco so there are a lot of dead roots in it after first use. I need something to break those down. Canna recommends a double dose of zym for the first two weeks. Maybe I'll just stick with Cannazym since I know it works. I've tried getting cheap with it and there is a noticeable difference in vigor and slowed growth at first.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: enzym products [Re: CrushNazT]
#761549 - 12/13/14 02:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nothing is wrong with my hydropshop, I've known the family since I was in grade 7. If you ask a question about a product and they don't know they shrug their shoulders and say they just sell the stuff. Beyond that I can't complain with my very near wholesale pricing and to date thousands upon thousands of dollars of free nutrients. The fact of the matter is most grow store owners are sales people, very few of them know shit about chemistry or plant physiology. Most people aren't in the know and add a concoction of nutrients and additives to their reservoir not knowing what's going on or how they may or may not be benefiting this is the case with 90% of hydroshops or they just shameless sell whatever products have the highest markup. Obviously not the case always but it's quite often the case.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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psychoton:
I reuse my coco for 8-24months before replacing it when I take it outdoors.
I do ebb and flow, usually 1.2 EC, added compost tea @ 2-5%, often times roots excel and a combo bloom booster when I harvest I pull the bulk of the roots, trash the root ball against the inside of a garbage can, sift all this to remove the bulk of the roots, plant clones and hit it with compost tea. I've found next to no benefit using cannazym, hydrozym, or multizen.
Perhaps I don't need it because of the AACT.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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 Mrshroom
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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i use mbferts as well. i use there whole line up. As far for micro stuff i been using orca ...made by the people who make great white. its been working good for me and u dont need much of it. i think its either .5ml to a gallon of water or 1ml per a gallon.
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TribalSeed
SoulJah
Registered: 06/22/13
Posts: 1,699
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Nothing is wrong with my hydropshop, I've known the family since I was in grade 7. If you ask a question about a product and they don't know they shrug their shoulders and say they just sell the stuff. Beyond that I can't complain with my very near wholesale pricing and to date thousands upon thousands of dollars of free nutrients. The fact of the matter is most grow store owners are sales people, very few of them know shit about chemistry or plant physiology. Most people aren't in the know and add a concoction of nutrients and additives to their reservoir not knowing what's going on or how they may or may not be benefiting this is the case with 90% of hydroshops or they just shameless sell whatever products have the highest markup. Obviously not the case always but it's quite often the case.
Whats worse is when you have the salesman attitude with the knowledge of the way around a garden. You get good sound advice, but also get directed towards marked up products.
The mark up on some of these products is horrifying, but I guess somebody gotta make money.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: enzym products [Re: TribalSeed]
#762613 - 12/21/14 03:59 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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The highest markup I've seen on hydro nutes at my friends shop is 450%. Many quality products are marked up anywhere from 50-200%. This is comparing retail to wholesale. If you look at what many of these fertilizers contain and compare them to powdered fertilizers from Jack's or Peters or whatever it's absolute robbery. It's almost like bottling tap water. AN is roughly a 200% markup which is why people push AN over other nutrients, AN are worth while when you get wholesale pricing, otherwise you're spending so much money on marginal if any return.
In the case where you're getting good advice but being directed to the money maker products, I'm cool with that. If they tell you to use AN by the recommended dosage to make a shit ton of money and ruin you're crop I'm not cool with that.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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im running dwc,s and the first time i used the grozyme it whitened my roots up but i have used it after that without noticing the whitening up of my roots .
im still kinda testing myself so i cant realty say much ,im thinking about adding it to my rez for the last couple days before the nutrient change out just as an aid ,im also thinking of swapping the grozyme out for beneficial bacteria .
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: enzyme products [Re: dmtcorey]
#762621 - 12/21/14 07:39 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not having white roots in hydroponics is usually indicative of a lack of oxygen or in some cases a lack of circulation causing dead spots in your root area. Temperature can also be a culprit, too high of temps is the best way to get root rot in DWC. This is root rot in the making which enzyme products are good for.
When you have a dialed in hydroponics setup where your reservoir temps are in check, aeration is maxed out, and there's circulation in the reservoir your roots are going to be healthy and white. In such a case I've found very little use for enzyme products.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Mrshroom
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Not having white roots in hydroponics is usually indicative of a lack of oxygen or in some cases a lack of circulation causing dead spots in your root area. Temperature can also be a culprit, too high of temps is the best way to get root rot in DWC. This is root rot in the making which enzyme products are good for.
When you have a dialed in hydroponics setup where your reservoir temps are in check, aeration is maxed out, and there's circulation in the reservoir your roots are going to be healthy and white. In such a case I've found very little use for enzyme products.
well enzymes still have there place even beside helping keep roots white. The enzymes cover the roots and help break done nuits in the water to help it make it more bio avialbe to the plants.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Not having white roots in hydroponics is usually indicative of a lack of oxygen or in some cases a lack of circulation causing dead spots in your root area. Temperature can also be a culprit, too high of temps is the best way to get root rot in DWC. This is root rot in the making which enzyme products are good for.
When you have a dialed in hydroponics setup where your reservoir temps are in check, aeration is maxed out, and there's circulation in the reservoir your roots are going to be healthy and white. In such a case I've found very little use for enzyme products.
im sure my air pumps are supplying enough oxygen ,in the summer i controlled each bucket individually so it should nt be a lack of curculaion so im certain it was the temp of my nutrient solution .
now im running an rdwc set up and the buckets are on a cool basement floor but i am not running my pump continuously because it over flows the control bucket as well as im not running an oxygen supply to the control bucket ether but with this set up it is not as much of an issue like it was in the summer ,maybe tightening my game up with a chiller and an oxygen supply to the control bucket is the thing to do .
thanks c.koons
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Edited by dmtcorey (12/21/14 02:00 PM)
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: enzyme products [Re: dmtcorey]
#762651 - 12/21/14 02:42 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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MrShroom - This happens naturally via dissociation in water/solution. This is where the ionic/complex compounds break down into smaller atoms/ions which are as bio available as it gets.
Admittedly enzyme products will increase this rate of dissociation but it's efficiency or value when growing a cash crop is questionable. In the case where you have a bioponic-esque situation in mind it's value is most definitely in question.
DMT - the temp of your water decreases the amount of oxygen it holds, temperature is more important than providing oxygen. With active hydroponics I keep my oxygen levels maxed out at any given temp.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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i dont understand what you mean there c koons ,are you saying the warmer the water the less oxygen is available to the plant?
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Mrshroom
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: enzyme products [Re: dmtcorey]
#762682 - 12/21/14 08:41 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
dmtcorey said:
i dont understand what you mean there c koons ,are you saying the warmer the water the less oxygen is available to the plant?
with water the warmer it is the less air can be held in by the water. It like beer if u drink warm beer more of the co2 will come out of the liquid when u open the bottle. but when it its cold the beer can hold and store more co2 and less will escape when u open it up.
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GreenHorns
boulevardier
Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 1,195
Loc: funkytown
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: enzyme products [Re: Mrshroom]
#762918 - 12/23/14 10:27 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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When I was working at a shop there where two very common items Hygrozyme which is expensive as all hell and Big Time Enzyme which everyone with testimonials said gave identical results at the tune of a 5 gallon bucket for the cost of most of a 2.5gallon of HZ.
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wiggy wham wham wazzle
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