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 Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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 Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!)  1
#756952 - 11/12/14 05:33 AM (10 years, 6 days ago) |
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Back Crossing
So how do I get a OG Kush male when there is no such thing? How do I make non-fem seeds of a strain that has only females? The process is very very simple just takes time esp if you want to make it as pure as possible.
Take the OG Kush female and cross it with a male of a strain as close to her as possible. Now your gonna have F1 seeds. Those seeds are gonna be a 50/50 mix of the mother and the father. Now take the seeds you just made and grow out as many as you can. Do whatever you want to with the females and take cuttings off of the males. Flower the cuttings and see which is the best. Smell, taste, and the rest you know the story here. (and yes if you want to find the best one you're gonna have to smoke some male buds or flowers. Check the outside of them for trichs).
Now you have your chosen male. Breed it to the original OG mother plant. Now the seeds you just made are gonna be 3/4 mommy and 1/4 father. Guess what you're gonna do now.....yup the whole process over again.
Do the process 5 to 10 times (the more you do it the less chance that the father plants genetics show themselves. Yes there is always a chance but it's very remote). Now the thing about this male is that it gets all it's genetics from the original female. What the fuck does that mean Magash? I'm glad you asked. What it means is a lot of the time since the male gets it's genetics from the female that you have already picked for taste, smell, and all the rest has those traits stronger then in a normal male. 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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 GoonerHeClips
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 380
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: Magash]
#756961 - 11/12/14 07:35 AM (10 years, 6 days ago) |
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What if you have no males and all your seeds are feminized hermie bitches?
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: GoonerHeClips] 1
#756963 - 11/12/14 08:20 AM (10 years, 6 days ago) |
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If they are normal then you don't have to worry about this process. Now if the plants are hermie then they are garbage.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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webster10
Registered: 12/15/13
Posts: 466
Last seen: 9 years, 12 days
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: Magash]
#756964 - 11/12/14 08:29 AM (10 years, 6 days ago) |
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Question.
So imagine you go through this whole process many times and you have now produced non-femmed seeds that have like a 1/100 chance of having traits of the original male.
How would you turn these into femmed seeds? With that STS stuff?
And what characteristics would you use to pick the strain you're going to use the male of? Which traits are more important than others.
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: webster10]
#756974 - 11/12/14 11:06 AM (10 years, 6 days ago) |
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Only problem with back crossing to the original female is you're not necessarily reinforcing the characteristics that say make OG Kush what it is. If the original female line isn't stable you're just going to be breeding traits that are undesirable. In which case you would want to breed within the line. ie. progress the line to F3
Say for example I found a really banger of a haze, but it occurred via happenstance rather than gradual breeding progression and the line is typically hay smelling haze, back crossing it to the original mother isn't (likely) going to be effective. I would likely never have seed that generally resembled the mother. This is actually a pretty good example as haze isn't very stable genetics, TomHill had a phenotype of Haze that laid everything else to waste. He was trying to breed towards this exact phenotype and the closest he got was 1/20 - 1/30.
Now say for example, Northern Lights wasn't available in seed and I outcrossed a clone to make F1 using Afghani stock, and back crossed to the Northern Lights clone, that would probably be very good. As Northern Lights is fairly true breeding as are Afghanis.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: captain.koons]
#756999 - 11/12/14 02:20 PM (10 years, 6 days ago) |
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lol..Yeah I know Tom he talks up a storm. Knows a lot. What it comes down to is the selection of plant you breed. Pick the wrong one you pass up the wrong traits. Yeah I know even the best looking plant can pass bad traits but to be honest I've never seen the bad traits passed on as long as you make the right choice of plants to breed.
Myself, Tom, Adam from THSeeds, Subcool, Bog, Ken from GDP seeds. Bret from Apothecarry and the guys from DNA-Reserva Privada all grew in the same mountain range and none of us can ever agree on anything and every single one of us has a strain that is popular so I'm gonna stick with it's all up to the choice in plants.
Here is a example. Buy seeds of Mexican and you're gonna grow killer plants. Now if you take seeds from the typical Mexican that is the stuff smuggled over the boarder you grow shitty plants no matter how good a grower.
The reason: Mexicans even though they kill each other by the thousands are not totally stupid or those cartels wouldn't be worth billions. They go threw the plants and pull the males. Now they grow crops the size of football fields and jam the plants in. The healthy male plants are easy to spot cause of their growth rates and so on. When your dealing with a few hundred thousand plants at one time a bunch of males get passed them. The ones that get passed them are usually short scraggly unhealthy plants that are hard to spot but unfortunately for them they also spreed pollen.
From what I've seen so many times I can't count is healthy plants make healthy seeds and shitty plants (shitty cause of genetics not the grower) make shitty ones. I know that may sound retarded (does to me anyway) but I have never not seen it be the case.
By the way the man to talk to and most likely know the most about genetics and breeding is Chimera.
The method I use to stabilize the seeds came from Shantibaba of Mr. Nice seeds and he came up with Northern Lights No. 5, NL5 x Haze, Super Silver Haze, White Widow, White Rhino, and White Shark so there is something to the method. 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: Magash]
#757053 - 11/12/14 10:21 PM (10 years, 5 days ago) |
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There's validity to back crossing to reinforce genetics but only when the parents are stable or if the traits are breeding true in the line. If you have a huge population of of plants displaying phenotype #1 and you select a rare phenotype #2, chances are you're not going to get phenotype #2 showing through in the progeny.
You actually said just the point I'm getting across. If you select the wrong plant you're going to pass on the wrong traits, that's just the case with back crossing, the mother either has it or doesn't have it. In which case you would have to result with inbreeding and outcrossing to achieve the same phenotype.
Neville and Shanti have made some fine creations, and do back cross to the parent plant to stabilize the genetics (at least in some cases), but you can't generalize things as most of their genetics are rock solid. NL comes from landrace afghan or the like, White Widow falls under the same category, White Rhino and Sharkshock are combinations of WW and Afghani, Skunk.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: captain.koons]
#757057 - 11/12/14 10:37 PM (10 years, 5 days ago) |
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I hear ya and I'm not disagreeing with ya so I must have some damn stable genetics cause I have been told many times that if I'm not using land race strains anything can happen and to them I say "yeah sure whatever". Am I suppose to go with what they say or with what has been happening in front of me thousands of times over the last 30 years. 25 years of breeding. I'm gonna go with what I see in front of me.
By the way does anybody here that grew my strains have a single complaint? 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: Magash]
#757058 - 11/12/14 11:34 PM (10 years, 5 days ago) |
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I by no means was trying to get across that it wouldn't or doesn't work for you. Only that given the circumstance that the mother isn't of a stable pedigree that back crossing would be a useless method of trying to stabilize her phenotype in a seedlot.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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GoonerHeClips
Stranger
Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 380
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Making Males (you guys said to do write ups !!!) [Re: captain.koons]
#757060 - 11/13/14 05:47 AM (10 years, 5 days ago) |
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Seed Fight!
Good stuff guys, carry on.
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