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 phychotron
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly) 
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 Re: unstable pH  [Re: KaptKid] 1
#692907 - 11/10/13 04:27 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your bubbling air through your water, that will change your pH as you dissolve various gases into the water. You can also pump bacteria directly into your nutrients this way as well. When I was considering Canna I got into a huge conversation with the customer service guy and he said that Canna holds up well and doesn't need too much agitation(its true), but the air-stone will definitely mess things up with the pH. Should I absolutely have to have something, get a waterfall pump that comes on for a minute or two every few hours.
I tried adding a waterfall pump but it was not worth the cleaning effort, it eventually gets covered in salts and for Canna its not required. Thats one of the things I love about Canna is that after four weeks of just topping off my tank there was only mild scum coating the tank that washes right off with a nylon brush, whereas with Advanced Nutrients in the past would leave me crusty after a few days and needing to put in effort to scrub all the crap off. Thats in a non-recirculating standing nutrient tank.
Try it without the air stone and see what happens.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: unstable pH [Re: phychotron] 1
#692948 - 11/10/13 01:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lets do some experiments to get to the bottom of all this.
Set up 4 gallons of tap water. Label them: Tap, Tap-AIR, Nute, Nute-AIR.
Without pH adjust
Two plain tap water-one with an air stone, one without. LOG their pH over a few days (every few hours if possible, all at the same time for better analysis).
Same with the nutrients. Mix the two gallons together so that they equalize, not just two separately mixed gallons with different concentrations. Then after a few days turn off the air stones and see what happens compared to the non-air.
Repeat but with the pH adjusted from the beginning, so you might need 8 gallons and more air stones or do it again in a few days. And when you get the Cal-Mg you can try a similar experiment to watch it in action.
The idea is to get some graphs of the pH over time and also to compare to the direct effect of the air stone. Keep good records, try and take readings at set intervals like every 8 hours so you can sleep and still not effect the time-scale of the graph.
Heres an example of how much easier it is to read the data in graph form.
I did that little experiment in response to someone on youtube who compared two pH- products but didn't compare strengths, only that they were both pH down. As you can see Advanced Nutrients pH- works much quicker than the Gen. Hydro pH-. You can tell with the blink of an eye, but with numbers you have to mentally consider how they compare to one another.
Notice that Time in your case will be the bottom axis, so make sure to note the time and date, and maybe now its clear why you would want consistently timed readings. If you have excel (google doc's has a free spreadsheet program that lets you share with anyone) it would be best, then I could make the graphs and we'll see what happens.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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 KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
 
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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 unstable pH
#690030 - 10/20/13 06:38 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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AS the subject say's.
I doing a flood and drain table, 10 gal res.
I get the pH down to 6 and within 6 to12 hours its back up to 7.
Water temp is about 70f.
Just started the clones so I'm not having to add water back into the res yet.
I've been told pH should stay stable for days.
Any thoughts would be helpful.
Just a note the EC has been holding for days.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: unstable pH [Re: KaptKid]
#690031 - 10/20/13 06:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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It definitely should hold for days. Is this tap water? how many plants are running in the tray? Oh never mind, they're just clones.
Have you tried changing it out to see if that helps?
Is this a new system?
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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KaptKid
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Posts: 5,615
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Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Yes this tap water.
Yes I change it out.
Not new, have used 4 times.
I always had this problem and thought was norm till I found out that pH should hold for days.
Time to fix a problem.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: unstable pH [Re: KaptKid]
#690057 - 10/21/13 02:08 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Okay then. Home made system?
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Also are your roots vibrant and healthy? What kind of nutrients are you using? Have you ran your system without the nutes to see if it happens then as well?
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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KaptKid
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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This happens with or with out the nutes.
Also running a double ck on this starting a 6 pm when I ck the pH again.
As far as the roots go, only one plant with great healthy roots but the clones have only been in a few days.
See my grow log for more of an update.
As for nutes I'm using GH this time before I was using FF.
Thanks for your help.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
Edited by KaptKid (10/21/13 02:12 PM)
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,079
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: unstable pH [Re: KaptKid]
#690081 - 10/21/13 02:27 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
This happens with or with out the nutes.
Are you using a ph meter???
If so you may want to test it.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
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Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: unstable pH [Re: Stoneth]
#690113 - 10/21/13 07:34 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Use the drops, gotten good with them.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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hamloaf
Biometric Precursor.
Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Back in the USSR.
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: unstable pH [Re: KaptKid]
#690114 - 10/21/13 07:43 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are you able to, and or have you callibrated your ph meter lately or at all?
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: unstable pH [Re: hamloaf]
#690118 - 10/21/13 07:58 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said:
Are you able to, and or have you callibrated your ph meter lately or at all?
No meter, I use pH drops.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,079
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: unstable pH [Re: KaptKid]
#690123 - 10/21/13 08:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hmmmm.
By chance have you noticed a ppm/ec change, along side the ph???
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: unstable pH [Re: Stoneth]
#690136 - 10/21/13 09:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you have enough cal/mg in your water? Those act as a buffer and slow the effects of rapidly changing pH.
What happens to the pH if you fill a bucket up with a gallon of tap water and let it sit on the counter for a day or two, does it change? stabilize? Take a reading every 12 hours and see how it responds. Can you mix a gallon of nutrients and have it sit unused (never in contact with your equipment/res) without any issues, or does it only happen when in your system? What are you adjusting the pH with?
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: unstable pH [Re: phychotron]
#690143 - 10/21/13 09:39 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Stoney, the EC is stable. ck it with pH readings.
phychotron, I have no idea of the cal/mag in the water. How does one find this out?
I started a gal of water at 6pm tonight. Will take reading every 12 hours.
Surprisingly the pH was 6. Normally its at 7. Has been as high as 8.
The rest will get done.
With the help of the Growery this problem will be solved.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: unstable pH [Re: KaptKid]
#690157 - 10/22/13 02:23 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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your ec/ppm of the tap water should give you an idea. Sounds like your water source is pretty whack, where does your tap water come from?
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: unstable pH [Re: phychotron]
#690169 - 10/22/13 07:30 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gal of water 12 hours later is up to a 7.
Know our water comes from another county.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: unstable pH [Re: KaptKid]
#690183 - 10/22/13 11:13 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sounds like you need start using another water source.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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That's what I would start with. If your own county can't produce their own water the next one over might have some hobunk issues as well, and it sounds like they've got some.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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hamloaf
Biometric Precursor.
Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Back in the USSR.
Last seen: 6 months, 25 days
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Re: unstable pH [Re: phychotron]
#690201 - 10/22/13 01:30 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yea, I would start sourcing gallons of distilled water for the garden from the local grocery store, test it with a ph meter and from there adjust the ph as necessary.
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