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Quote: Paleo Edibles said: Though in reality, I'm just a guy really high on edibles - exclusively, I don't smoke anymore - and who likes to stay that way. I just get my kicks helping others do the same.
Honestly guys, there is no real reason NOT to take this guy's (or girl's) advice, and give it a whirl. For starters, not smoking your medication drastically reduces your chances of contracting a chronic respiratory illness. Secondly, it would reduce the amount of material needed for each batch, thus making intensely strong batches quite inexpensive to make.
Agree with CrayolaHalls that "squeezing every bit of high" out is a bit excessive, which is why I don't agree with keeping the roughage in the mix. I always strain the vegetative matter, as it can cause gastrointestinal issues (mainly really stinky gas). Also, I don't like the feeling like there's hay in my brownies!
I've got an ounce of shake that I've had sitting in my closet for a minute. I have an excess of both budder and tincture at the moment, and I think I'll try and convince my wife to let me do some experimenting.
I'm thinking of doing four separate tests. I'll do two batches of budder and two batches of tincture. One of each of them will be of straight unadulterated shake, the other will be of decarboxylated shake.
Seven grams of shake for each test isn't too much to use to see if these results are true or the ravings of someone with a bit too much mold in his edible stash...
I still like this forum. Since it was so slow I copied this shit and posted it elsewhere, hope you guys don't take offence. Here I'll post the pics of the process I took, etc etc. Sorry if half of this shit is repeated from earlier in the thread!
Hello, here's an oven decarboxylation pictorial and technique, derived from a Sativex scientific study and patent, provided with an exteremely short but worthy explanation.
(this is the part where nay-sayers click and read)
Repeat after me: 220 Degrees Fahrenheit for Two Hours!
220 Degrees Fahrenheit for Two Hours!
220 Degrees Fahrenheit for Two Hours!
220 Degrees Fahrenheit for Two Hours!
Notice how 0 time decarboxylating has a measly 992 units of THC, compared to 7734 units. That's like an 8 fold increase!
See the red and blue circles? The red circle shows the highest peak THC content in a sample of herb after it's been heated to the temperature listed, and the time next to it. Red circle is the highest, most efficient method and the blue circle is the second-most efficient. They differ in time by one hour and a half, and in temperature by 15C or about 27F.
Therefore, the two preferred methods for decarboxylation are as follows: 2 hours at 221F, or 0.5 hours at 250F.
I'll repeat this again, but I always add more time and a few degrees more temperature because of the inefficient heating mechanism that is your oven. In the patent, when they are doing large batches of decarboxylations (from 100g to 4kg) they add more time and temperature based on the amount that must be heated in the given amount of time. The listed preferred times and temperatures are tested on .25g samples, heated directly in vials.
Heres my oven set at 230F (I add 10 degrees because of the uneven heating you get in an oven compared to a vial + bunsen burner, which is the technique used to derive these times and temperatures) with my cannabis, crushed and covered, almost to a seal.
Pretty good so far? I heat this (approx 20-25 grams, I have no clue) at 230 for 2 hours and 20 minutes, instead of the standard 220F for 2 hours. Why? To ensure decarboxylation happens, and to ensure that the temperature is reaching at least 220F for the period of time I'm counting. You can preheat, but even when I preheat I leave it for an extra 15 minutes or so: theres no way this process will be as efficient as decarboxylating .25g in a bunsen burner, so more time and a slightly higher temperature is necessary.
Anyway, here's what it looks like when it's done.
Compare the before and after bud
The beauty of this method is that it's been tested and it's proven that you don't loose a significant amount of cannabinoids to vaporization or degradation! This is information from the patent: they wouldn't choose these times and temperatures if they didn't produce results.
See the change in color? It's because what gave this cannabis plant it's color in the first place was the major terpenoids, which are lost during this method (they smell up your house btw). They are a negligable loss! Because THC and CBD content >>>>> terpenoid content. So the change in color is not due to charring, it's from the assisted evaporation of terpenoids.
My challenge: just try decarboxylating first with a small amount of herb. Simply try the 2 hour decarboxylate method just once, before dismissing the entire science behind the technique. Remember, it's all love, guys. Even if only a few people actually end up trying it, it'll spread through them to others, and eventually to a significant portion of users ad infinitum, because it's the real deal. Alternatively, you can vape your bud at 220F or your lowest setting multiple times, so you don't waste any terpenoids.
After that, I reccomend still decarboxylating in the oven at 220 until there is only the distinct smell of terpene-free herb (smells like ABV). An hour does the trick for decarboxylating some ABV that was vaped on the low setting. I still go for the 2 hours because more free cannabinoids and less carboxyl cannabinoids is always good, and when you're decarboxylating low at 220F to 235F - CBN degrading to THC is a non-issue.
I find your post interesting! I also am always looking to boost my cannabuzz. I do not do eatable to often. So does this work for the smoking aspect aswell as the eating of it? Or is this all geared towards eatable and digestion?
The boards are still slow around here for sure. But have been gaining activity slowly but surely. At the price we pay for bud it is no smallwonder that people are a lil leary about ruining something that already works without no altering. Ya know, if it ain't broke don't fix it?
Anyways, we all love the fact that your bringing sources to back your statements. Stick around and see what happens!
When you try this (with as little as .25grams) you'll see the difference, and you'll continue doing it this way.
I think it's funny that on some other forums people are saying the Sativex patent is null and void - like if Sativex would bullshit something like this.
So if you wanted to Decarboxylate pure hash, would you oven cook @ 275?
-------------------- "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
-Albert Einstein
Your replies painted you in my head as a bit of a dick, but it's not a big deal. No worries. Crumbled, crushed cannabis, baked in an oven for 2 hours at 220F exactly, with a lid (that is not airtight) will convert your cannabis into the most potent raw material it can be without multiple phase extraction methods. If you don't like the complicated truth about decarboxylating, I don't know what to tell you. Did you not even bother to read the (apparently too lengthy, since you skipped it) posts where I linked to patents providing proof-positive?
An Open Challenge To The Growery
Pleasantly tripping (yes, tripping) on edibles, I hope my thoughts are being expressed coherently and in the way I am understanding them when I think to myself. I always have to keep reminding myself of who I'm writing for. I'll tell you, I write this for us, the cannna-isseur's, the herbalists, the beginner and intermediate basement-shamans. I'll also tell you why it's relevant: We are fairly paranoid about wasting our herbs, and we're very stuck in our ways.
I chose to migrate to Growery out of all the large forums (after being banned by some loser "Budslinger" at GC) because I find Growery and Shroomery users incredibly chill, open minded and informative. I think it's funny that my posts are mostly ignored here, but it might just be the slower activity of the edible forum, specifically. I think it's even funnier that the major marijuana community hasn't figured this stuff out yet - it's all documented in plain sight. The slowness of all MJ edible sections in various sites is representative of the lack of knowledge, or howto, to preparing and finally having a successful oral marijuana experience. The online marijuana "community" doesn't really know what they're doing when it comes to producing marijuana that is highly orally active - as active as it can be.
My challenge: just try decarboxylating first with a small amount of herb. Simply try the 2 hour decarboxylate method just once, before dismissing the entire science behind the technique. Remember, it's all love, guys. Even if only a few people actually end up trying it, it'll spread through them to others, and eventually to a significant portion of users ad infinitum, because it's the real deal. Alternatively, you can vape your bud at 220F or your lowest setting multiple times, so you don't waste any terpenoids. After that, I reccomend still decarboxylating in the oven at 220 until there is only the distinct smell of terpene-free herb (smells like ABV). An hour does the trick for decarboxylating some ABV that was vaped on the lowlow. I still go for the 2 hours because more free cannabinoids and less carboxyl cannabinoids is always good, and when you're decarboxylating low at 220F - CBN degrading to THC is a non-issue.
Change is bad, I get it!
Change sucks. I know, I totally get it. You can't just appear on a forum or a real life gathering, and say "Check it. Bake your buds for 2 hours until they're light brown, then fry them in an animal, olive or coconut oil until the buds turn brown-black. Don't throw away the plant material, there's always some cannabinoids left in them. Oh, and eat a good meal before and with the dose. Hell, throw in a grapefruit and some ginko or tumeric and you're in for a ride!" While it sure works, and there is scientific reasons why all those things are reccomended, That doesn't mean everyone likes your new idea or will try it. It doesn't work like that. In retrospect, and in re-reading my summation, no wonder half of the users in cyberspace think I'm a troll, and to the other half I'm a(n obsessive) nut.
Whenever you try to challenge conventional wisdom, or the way someone's been doing it for a while, you'll encounter that. Same thing happens in vegetarian vs. paleolithic eater arguments. Guess which side I'm on? Half the users will think you're trollin' (and hatin'), the other half will probably still never research facts themselves. Expecting any other response from the collective community online would be incredibly stupid. Maybe that's why I'm writing in this in the first place?
It would all be worth it if...
Fortunately, to a small fraction of intermediate to expert herbalists - I'm a champion of edible way. These are the herbalists who appreciate the complete "holistic" approach I describe in my writing. They are the blades who appreciate me infusing the chemistry details (decarboxylation, frying brown) and biology (first pass, enzyme inhibition) of the art - they like the answers and complete understanding it provides.
Though in reality, I'm just a guy really high on edibles - exclusively, I don't smoke anymore - and who likes to stay that way. I just get my kicks helping others do the samee. Maybe I'll throw together an oven decarb pictorial-technique, so you guys will see exactly what I'm talking about. Later on, some more interesting stuff, like soxhlet pictorials for saving the terpenes lost during the oven bake.
Till' next time, Paleo
Hi Paleo,
I'm very thankfull for the info you so freely share. I like your style. I also do a lot of things similar to you, ie lots of testing to see the results for myself and then to tweek it to perfection. Keep it up. You seem like the sort of friend that I would physically like to have.
Sometimes I notice small potency increases in the vape, but if I let it cook at 250 in the vape (after already being decarbed) I notice an even bigger increase, I get TOO high from the tiniest amount of cannabis. This has to be due to the change in ratio of THC to CBD and an overall increase in THC, soo...
Maybe 30 minutes at 250 is "enough", and there might be room for more time but not more temperature. Another thihng I know is that after being decarbed this bud will break down further in grinding and reveal more terpenoids and probably even more carboxyl cannabinoids soo...
Just decarb fully until the cannabis is yellowish brown - this is a great indicator that you arent underdecarbing because thats usually the case if there is lots of visible terpenes left (green on the plant)
Thats cool that 325 for 25 minutes worked for you. Sometime try the old school microwave method. 3 sets of 1:30 microwaves I believe it was
I just want to say it's hilarious that GrassCity is the main hub of the online MMJ community. The site is a joke, a farce, a stain on the MMJ community. If you don't know why, then you haven't been posting there long enough. Information is censored, users are wrongfully banned and a few fucktards rule the place with an iron first. GC is like a totaliatian establishment, why do people continue to flock to it? Fuck Grasscity. The site is a joke.
Quote: niteowl said: anyone using a microwave to cure their herbs is mentally stunted because ..........
YOU CAN NOT CONTROL THE TEMPS IN A FUCKING MICROWAVE
it has heat settigs from 1 to 0 (0 is 10)
..thru trial and error, you can maybe decarb properly, its not like you get to use different microwave units every time you decarb...
where i live, we use lpg for the oven, and having to do those oven thingy, would eat up time and gas(resource)...
i use microwave for convenience... when im feeling a little hands on, i do 2 x 1min 30sec microwave trips and the results are parallel to those decarbed buds described on in here...
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Don't Mistake My Kindness For Weakness 
Crumbled, crushed cannabis, baked in an oven for 2 hours at 220F exactly, with a lid (that is not airtight) will convert your cannabis into the most potent raw material it can be without multiple phase extraction methods. If you don't like the complicated truth about decarboxylating, I don't know what to tell you. Did you not even bother to read the (apparently too lengthy, since you skipped it) posts where I linked to patents providing proof-positive? 
Even if only a few people actually end up trying it, it'll spread through them to others, and eventually to a significant portion of users ad infinitum, because it's the real deal. Alternatively, you can vape your bud at 220F or your lowest setting multiple times, so you don't waste any terpenoids. After that, I reccomend still decarboxylating in the oven at 220 until there is only the distinct smell of terpene-free herb (smells like ABV). An hour does the trick for decarboxylating some ABV that was vaped on the lowlow. I still go for the 2 hours because more free cannabinoids and less carboxyl cannabinoids is always good, and when you're decarboxylating low at 220F - CBN degrading to THC is a non-issue. 
