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 chickenbiscuits
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 co2 gotta call out a mod 
#465831 - 08/23/10 11:44 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was doing some reading on co2 around this forum..
I have used tanked co2 for years and it is lovely. Many posts say 30% increase.. Magash always says "why do you think all the breeders switched?"
not 30%... your plants can grow 250% what they do otherwise.
1500ppm co2, 92degrees, 47% rH Invest in a NICE controller. Have MULTIPLE thermo/hygrometers in differnt places high and low
co2 has to be dialed into a science!
Breeders go with mass airflow cause it is much easier to prevent disease and other problems. They are not going for yield and quality.. They are looking at 50000 plants all naturally seeking certain traits over generations. I can understand how magash likes mass airflow too.. The rooms are making clones, way different than a commercial indoor flowering room.
I just hate to see so many people turned off just cause they didnt dial it in. With co2 you will definitely outgrow any mass airflow system if done right.
Check out this link for some good info showing a graph of growth rate with different co2 enrichment levels.
co2 enrichment graph and info
Not trying to bash magash hes a good mod... Just hate to see so many people turn away so quickly.
Thanks and remember to stay on the chicken biscuits.
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chickenbiscuits
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also some other old turnoffs ive read for the co2 is not having the l/sq ft
first of all w/sq ft barely means jack.. i dont know why everyone on here talks in w/sq ft go by the Lumens. Theres so many different lumen ratings hps/mh/cfl now theres high output hps that throws out 95000 lumens on a 600w. A bottom of the line 1000w hps throws out 107000 lumens... Thats almost the same on a 600 as the 1000.
Light Movers are key to co2 is what im really getting at.
Throw a solar revolution on a 6000 l/sq ft grow and it barely puts into an applicable co2 enrichment rate. 6000x 130% = 7800 l/sq ft or what ya really want... 7500 l/sq ft with a good light mover...
7500x130% = 9750 l/sq ft OPTIMAL! co2 enrichment lighting. you can also blend spectrums w revolutions.
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: starrider]
#465885 - 08/23/10 01:04 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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after reviewing my posts... im pretty sure that they are "blatantly" correct. i have researched and experimented with co2 for years and theres no doubt in my mind it will outgrow mass airflow.
as for the lumens thing... Maybe l/sq ft isnt the BEST way to measure all that. But it is surely better than all these people using w/sq ft.
Any co2 enrichment guide will tell you that you need more light. Typically between 7500-10000 L/sq ft.
Im not sure what exactly your argument is harry... i wish you had more time. Have you even used co2 correctly before?
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chickenbiscuits
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light movers are used for much more than just spreading a light out. as a matter of fact i use the same space with a light mover as i would without.
The main things I use a light mover for are for preventing hotspots, shadow shifting, and to create an evenly penetrated canopy. a light mover will get all inside and promote the most even growth possible, although between training and pruning you shouldnt have too much on the inside anyway.
I could also make a bold claim about light movers. You will definitely achieve a more even canopy using them. An even canopy is key to optimal results. without a light mover the only way to get even growth is to be rotating your plants all the time. Then you still have hotspots and some shadow shifting.
Maybe lumens is a bad way to measure what you need, but i couldnt say that is was worse than using w/sq ft. The fact remains, most professional growers will use l/sq ft far before W. The majority of good teks will recommend light requirements in l/sq ft.
I just dont understand why everyone on here uses w/sq ft when there are SO MANY variables as to how much light one light will produce than another.
Really though im not here to argue between Lumens and Watts. Thats a whole different subject I shouldve just stuck with the original post. WHY IS EVERYONE TRYING TO TURN ALL THESE NOOBS OFF CO2???? I want to see some evidence for a good ventilation system.
For example OG Kush... one of the most sought after strains out here in cali. Its not known to be a high yielding strain. ill use some watt figures for you.
The best ventilation system ive seen w OG would be blessed and lucky if they 1g/w on og... usually 1/2g/w
Co2 done RIGHT.... ive seen OG from the same mother do close to 1.5g/w
From what ive seen you'd have one of the best in the world to make OG do that with 300ppm co2 in the room.
Edited by chickenbiscuits (08/23/10 02:11 PM)
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: maryanne3087]
#465944 - 08/23/10 02:23 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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there are many things figured into this 250% some people even say 300%.
One of the main things is that your veg time is cut down. You will achieve your desired plant size to switch to flowering sometimes twice as fast. Your buds will develop bigger and denser as well. These combined with other factors can increase your farms overall productivity to these figures. Although YOU may not see this drastic of a difference, theres no doubt in my mind that, if done right, you WILL see a LARGE difference.
There are many reasons all this happens. Alot of it is to do with the plant being able to thrive in a higher temperature... I dont recall the EXACT figure but as temperature increases the more water air can hold.
For example you could have the exact same amount of water in the air in two different rooms one room is 85 one room is 95
The room thats 95 will have a much lower rH because the air can hold more water.
When there is this excess water in the air EVERYTHING happens faster. from photosynthesis to how fast the roots get oxygen.
I seem to remember that figure being...
For every 20 degrees of temperature rise the air can hold twice as much water.... dont quote me on that though.
Ive even seen high yielding strains like chronic yield over 3g/w on co2 enrichment systems.
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chickenbiscuits
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Also i need to note that ALL my experience has been with smaller plant number per sq M than alot of you are used to. I have been a prop215 patient in california since 2004 and have ALWAYS done legal grows. Ive never grown hundreds of plant in a room. The veg is long and each plant yields several ounces.
so as far the light movers
SOG methods may not see the same results ive seen with the larger plants over the years. you may be able to create an even canopy w/o rotating or a light mover with these smaller plant methods.
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: maryanne3087]
#465948 - 08/23/10 02:36 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
maryanne3087 said:
I find it hard to believe that any strain can yield 3gram/watt esp when 1gram/watt fills the canopy with dense rockhard nugs. Is this a vertical or horizontal system?
I've heard of 2 grams/watt with dialed in vertical systems using a bazillion plants. With a horizontal lighting system I can't see 3gr/watt being remotely possible.
well it is...
you have to have it dialed in exactly for sure. but 3g/w is totally possible although those strains are never that premium quality. Which is the only thing i grow.
I have seen these results, but have never achieved 3g/w myself...
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chickenbiscuits
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a room with no co2 enrichment will usually sit 40%rH at the high range alotta guys like 25% even... co2 enriched 10deg rise in temp creates an atmosphere that will hold 50% more water then the rise in rH to 50% on top of that.
assume thats true.. and that water is 1/3 oxygen...
there are only two ways cannabis roots absorb oxygen which is key in their role. air and water. so with the temp rise and the rH your giving the roots at least 60% more oxygen in the same time.
This is one of many factors.
EVERYTHING happens faster. you use twice as much water, nutrients, water in the air. and surely more light though not double.
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chickenbiscuits
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you just dont get it man.. your all in the box
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: DungenessDank]
#466139 - 08/23/10 09:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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ya got me on the hydrogen being lighter than oxygen.. but that doesnt change my point either. its just not 1/3 the weight..
Im definitely no chemist and maybe im over extending myself getting into all this stuff about oxygen, this post is about co2. but i do know how to grow weed. well. through experimentation not through a bunch of info learned through message boards.
The BIG POINT TO ALL THIS... Is that all these people on here telling you guys co2 isnt worth it... is bullshit.
Sure it costs a lot to get into and you have to have it dialed in. but if you dont have your indoor dialed in your wasting your time. I would never be satisfied with.3 or .4g/w or even the 1/2 that so many seem to shoot for.
co2 levels may not have to do with rH. but a standard grow book or tek for mass airflow will recommend 40%rH or lower. co2 enrichment 45-55%. Im not getting too into science i dont know(like youve already proven i shouldnt), but thats tried and true info in my book.
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chickenbiscuits
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well you wanted me to stay out of your grow thread so heres my reply to that on here since i know you're following this thread too harry.
quality looks A+
I only grow those strains too. The biggest yielder ill get into is blue dream which still has that connoisseur taste and smell.
75% of the time i grow nothing but OG Kush. Most people are happy with the .5g/w
I like to have nice purple sugary strains too.
Again coming to the point of all this..
These connoisseur strains will be as productive with co2 as a big bud or chronic will on mass airflow. Maybe g/w will be higher on the chronic big bud, but the OG will have half the veg time and definitely hop up there in the 1g/w range even 1.2-3 or you can take something like blue dream and get a higher g/w and a faster veg.
Just overall faster and better.
You've picked out little tidbits of this and that to bash me. but i have seen NO evidence on your behalf that venting is better than co2. and thats what i really want an argument about.
as for oxygen.. im over it. take your throne as being the chemist out of us. If the water never breaks down from absorption to transpiration and is still h20 when transpired to vapor its technically not using the oxygen gas.. OK i get what your saying but lets go back to co2
somebody please prove that co2 isnt worth it...
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: maryanne3087]
#466405 - 08/24/10 08:05 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks Magash. Thats more the type of argument im trying to see. Harry isnt on the level. Im not trying to get into all this nitty gritty about the little details. This is about co2 being better or not.
Im not claiming to be an expert.. Like i said ive only been at this for 6 years. but ive seen a lot in that time.
As for amsterdam... Ive been there twice, ive met DNA guys, and Thseeds guys. They both play a part of my garden this year. Im trying out one of DNA's skunk train crosses (OG18xskunk #1) and Im growing THSeeds Heavy Duty Fruity and Mendo Madness. HDF is pretty shitty for a light dep and I can only hope the outdoor does better. Its got a lemon citrusy smell and big nugs.. but they're kinda larfy and not that great. Mendo Madness is great for cali outdoor or light dep. Big buddha cheese is my favorite seed i have this year though.
Amsterdam though.... 95% of their product SUCKS! Cali is killin them over there. I dont know what kinda dumb shit they're doing, but ive been to many coffee shops, bulldog, rock it, blue sky, Ben's and a whole lotta little hole in the wall ones. Its all larfy commercial crap. The dispensaries here are all doing way better. sure now and then there's a good batch of chocolope from aaron at dna or a good batch of the amnesia haze everyone over there was freaking out on over there last time i was there... but cali you find at least a few good quality buds in ALMOST every dispensary.
As for the 250% stat. Thats basically stolen right off the hydrofarm graph in the original post. I couldnt tell you the exact percentage my experience has been but its definitely a lot, and maybe even twice as fast. Like i said before this is a compiled number of all the figures. Faster veg time, more flower production. Personally ive never seen OG hit 1g/w without co2. Since you've been growing since 85 and you make clones for clubs.. I can only assume you've dabbled in the OG.
Now before i go any further... im not talking about OG kush platinum(doesnt have that killer knock spice into your veins smell) or og skunk or 18 or any of that. Just that original Unmistakable spicy og. Have you seen 1g/w with strain and no co2? Not to mention a veg time only sitting around 3 weeks for 6ounce plants?
Ive seen co2 veg a plant faster indoors than any setup without.. Personally I dont think A/C is really that big of an issue either. The best way to go about it is to air cool your lights with a water cooling coil. Maybe this isnt common information but i know magash is into the mushrooms too. so...
I know that you know a little more about building ventilation systems from scratch than most around the growery. Paul Stamets writes a good pictoral in one of his books about putting your own cooling and heating coil in your own system. Always incorporating HEPA's of course, but i do that w the pot too!
So you recirculate the air pulled in through your lights through a series of a few cold water coils and put the outake next to your a/c intake for the final cooling. You dont need the $1000 air conditioner they're trying to sell you at the hydrostore. Just go to wally world and buy a mid-class(or bigger if you have a big room) window unit!!! You cant use the portable ac units.. get the window one. It really doesnt take that much extra juice to maintain a temp near 95.
Again these are all experiences in a different place than many of you are used to. I only grow indoors in the winter so the room is constantly cooling from the cool temperatures. I also exchange the air every 3hrs which will bring the temp back down. Most people keep a "sealed" room which is rated to exchange air through leaks every 3hrs. Well my rooms are literally 100% sealed so i exchange air every 3 timed to have my controller bring back up the co2 ppm as soon as the exchange is done.
The cali outdoor/blackout season is way better than indoor could dream of being imho. The sun produces the best bud and its FREE! Sounds like magash has got a different game goin on with the club thing...
As for Harry, i think you'd argue with the majority of cali growers about half the shit they say. I bet you'd call me blatantly wrong to say that 10-15lbs/plant happens out here all the time too...! but what is blatant to me, is that you are book smart about the shit but are lacking mere experience.
So please Magash tell me you've seen the original Og Kush pump 1g/w with no co2...?
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: Magash]
#466710 - 08/24/10 05:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
I've heard a ton of stories like that and a lot of them are true. The problem is in order to get 10 to 15 lbs a plant your talking 30 feet tall (or taller actually) and 7 feet wide. 
ok definitely not... You guys are making mee wonder if you've really done much real norcal stuff.. Mendo and Humboldt both have kinda short seasons... Theres more to the triangle.
30ft tall... HAHAHAHA Ive seen 13lb plants only 14ft tall, about 17-18ft wide. Trained and pruned. A consistent garden full of them (12 plants yielding more than most 48 plant farms). Ive seen other gardens averaging 7-10 on 48plants... you can grow 7-10 with a febuary start in a big hole by 4/20. To grow over 10 you need to be serious... Super early start.. seed only. Plant into their holes come march with a greenhouse built over and supplemental HPS. You need a hole at least 8-10ft wide for a single plant.
why would you be scared of choppers? This is norcal baby. Grow 12 or 24 10 pounders and if compliance shows up they'll be taking pictures with them and the plant. Script up all the way legit and grow monsters, thats the triangle way. They're all just looking for the mexicans that have 3000 plants in the next canyon over. They dont care about a couple guys with a dozen plants.
And to he who says your a cali grower and havent seen a plant over 4lbs... your f****n up. You should be striving for 5-7/plant AVERAGE! Unless your one of those guys who likes to push the limits and grow 96 or something.
Man i thought all this experience would shoot out something more...?
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: Mr. Kite]
#466716 - 08/24/10 05:30 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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haha i got big meat man. maybe not black big but a good 9".
This isnt some bragging thing for me man.. Im just amazed that you guys are all so out of this info..
Magash is the only one making sense to me out here! Half the growers ive met in all of cali know how to grow 5s... and you guys havent ever even seen or believe in a 4!!!wtf is wrong with the cultivation world online. Maybe you guys are just spending too much timee on these boards and out of your garden..
edit:
THEY PUT PICS OF 7-8s IN THE NEWSPAPER HERE MAN!!
Edited by chickenbiscuits (08/24/10 05:32 PM)
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: maryanne3087]
#466774 - 08/24/10 06:33 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
maryanne3087 said:
99%+ of males have penises falling in the area of under 8"
a 9" penis is something like 1 in 8000-10 000 following the same deviation.
Shouldn't you be checking your co2 or something? If it leaks you could plug it with your massive cock.
theres no way thats true... maybe 99% of soft male penises
ive never seen a plant over 22ft tall
i dont take any interest posting pics
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: Magash]
#466787 - 08/24/10 06:50 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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well im just one up and one over sittin in farnorcal man! y would the dea bust 12 plants?
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: NizzyJones]
#466806 - 08/24/10 07:28 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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the soft parts a joke man.. but seriously... It just means you've got that midget meat
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: Mr. Kite]
#466833 - 08/24/10 08:25 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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hey now... lets not lock the co2 issue here. You guys got me off track.
Im looking for some more professional opinions aside from magash!
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chickenbiscuits
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Re: co2 gotta call out a mod [Re: maryanne3087]
#466843 - 08/24/10 08:33 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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alright your the jokester... im off the penis stuff
and nowhere near convinced co2 isnt worth it
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chickenbiscuits
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you got me on that one.
To get a good room goin you need at least a few grand.
I dont think you could do much with 200 and indoor in general. I guess a cabinet with some flouros.....
I smoke over 5lbs a year though, how could i be ok with just a cabinet.
3 weeks ago i had 3 half gallon jars from the light dep.. Big Budddha Cheese, Mendo Madness, and Black Domina. The mendo's gone, cheese gone, i got the main top off the Black D left and thats it. Time to break out 3 new strains for September!
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