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 Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
 
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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 using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= 
#412291 - 05/05/10 02:14 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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uber nice sleep.
Caveat-- i've never talked to a doctor about this but it seems like melatonin like other tryptamines would be broken in the body by MAO enzymes so a slight inhibition of that enzyme would result in melatonin staying in the brain longer.
Last nights preliminary testing results were encouraging, and i think tonight will be as well.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
Edited by Doitagain (05/05/10 02:21 AM)
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 mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High 
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: Doitagain]
#412323 - 05/05/10 07:02 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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5-htp =]
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Suck my balls America
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FRACTALife
Rust Fuckin' Cohle
Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,838
Loc: Carcosa 
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: Doitagain]
#413175 - 05/06/10 05:24 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I take xanax before bed 
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RipVanWinkle
The Benzodiazethang
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 82
Loc: West Tenuhsee
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: Doitagain]
#413187 - 05/06/10 05:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why would you want to potentiate melatonin? It's so cheap and plentiful, why don't you just take extra?
I take St. John's Wort for mild depression and anxiety and it really does work wonderfully for that. Melatonin, on the other hand, just gives me wild fucking dreams for 3 hours and then I wake up. And then I can't go back to sleep. I sleep better when I DON'T take it.....
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Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music.
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: RipVanWinkle]
#413238 - 05/06/10 07:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
RipVanWinkle said:
Why would you want to potentiate melatonin? It's so cheap and plentiful, why don't you just take extra?
I take St. John's Wort for mild depression and anxiety and it really does work wonderfully for that. Melatonin, on the other hand, just gives me wild fucking dreams for 3 hours and then I wake up. And then I can't go back to sleep. I sleep better when I DON'T take it.....
not just to potentiate it though but also to make it last longer.
I've been taking a break from weed, and lately when i take just melatonin i tend to wake up in the middle of the night but with the st john's wort it seems to last longer and i sleep through the night.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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openmind
cannaisseur
Registered: 06/06/08
Posts: 597
Loc: Cannafornia
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: Doitagain]
#413353 - 05/07/10 12:49 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why would you want to potentiate melatonin? It's so cheap and plentiful, why don't you just take extra?
When it comes to melatonin, less is more.
Taking to much melatonin can make it difficult to get to sleep.
I have 3mg melatonin tablets, and split those into 1/3s or 1/4s and that knocks me out just as easily as if i took one or two full tablets, anything more than that and it's way over kill, and not as effective....
Quote:
not just to potentiate it though but also to make it last longer.
I've been taking a break from weed, and lately when i take just melatonin i tend to wake up in the middle of the night but with the st john's wort it seems to last longer and i sleep through the night.
Interesting....
I also notice that i will wake up randomly in the middle of the night sometimes when i take melatonin. I drift off to sleep very quickly and effortlessly, but do sometimes find my self waking up.
I highly suggest getting some Valerian Root, works great for taking the edge off, and for helping with sleep. Actually works in a similar way that benzodiazepines work. Combining some valerian root, with some melatonin before bed, no doubt you will have great sleep.....
Kava is another one that i would check out....
I could only imagine that you're having some very vivid dreams at night, with taking a break from weed and using melatonin before bed....
.
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: openmind]
#413367 - 05/07/10 02:49 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said:
Quote:
Why would you want to potentiate melatonin? It's so cheap and plentiful, why don't you just take extra?
When it comes to melatonin, less is more.
Taking to much melatonin can make it difficult to get to sleep.
I have 3mg melatonin tablets, and split those into 1/3s or 1/4s and that knocks me out just as easily as if i took one or two full tablets, anything more than that and it's way over kill, and not as effective....
Quote:
not just to potentiate it though but also to make it last longer.
I've been taking a break from weed, and lately when i take just melatonin i tend to wake up in the middle of the night but with the st john's wort it seems to last longer and i sleep through the night.
Interesting....
I also notice that i will wake up randomly in the middle of the night sometimes when i take melatonin. I drift off to sleep very quickly and effortlessly, but do sometimes find my self waking up.
I highly suggest getting some Valerian Root, works great for taking the edge off, and for helping with sleep. Actually works in a similar way that benzodiazepines work. Combining some valerian root, with some melatonin before bed, no doubt you will have great sleep.....
Kava is another one that i would check out....
I could only imagine that you're having some very vivid dreams at night, with taking a break from weed and using melatonin before bed....
.
nah man everyone is differnt with regards to melatonin, for me the small doses are useless, i take it with valerian as well. And one capsule of st john's wort. I sleep through the night without any problems.
I've been taking melatonin on and off since i was in 8th grade.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: Doitagain]
#413569 - 05/07/10 08:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'd be cautious about taking st john's wort.
It's not as bad as taking a SSRI because it's non selective but I've heard of quite a few people having adverse affects. I've yet to hear about someone taking it to prolong the melatonin's effects.
If I was prescribed a SSRI for depression I'd take St John's Wort as a safer alternative but I'd be cautious for other use, it's almost like taking anti depressants to help you sleep.. doesn't make much sense to me.
Be safe.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High 
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: captain.koons]
#413572 - 05/07/10 08:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think, or at least the people at the local health food place, said that it was because people were mixing it with other prescription drugs trying to exagerate the effects of the other...Causing seretonin syndrome, and also i think was linked to some liver? problems.
This could have been another drug but I'm pretty sure it was this one.
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Suck my balls America
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: captain.koons]
#413627 - 05/07/10 08:54 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
I'd be cautious about taking st john's wort.
It's not as bad as taking a SSRI because it's non selective but I've heard of quite a few people having adverse affects. I've yet to hear about someone taking it to prolong the melatonin's effects.
If I was prescribed a SSRI for depression I'd take St John's Wort as a safer alternative but I'd be cautious for other use, it's almost like taking anti depressants to help you sleep.. doesn't make much sense to me.
Be safe.
it's not an ssri it's a mild MAOI, the dose I am taking is only 1/3rd of what they say to take daily tp treat depression. I take it just before bed and the reason it prolongs melatonins effects in theory is because it inhibits the enzyme MAO which handles the breaking down of tryptamines like serotonin and melatonin in the body.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: Doitagain]
#413722 - 05/08/10 12:51 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think you're wrong mang, I need to sleep but from what I remember.
St. John's wort is used as a ALTERNATIVE to SSRI's which means selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor as they only reuptake serotonin. St John's wort is a NON selective reuptake inhibitor which means it isn't serotonin selective and will inhibit the reuptake for a multitude of compounds(neurotransmitters such as melatonin as you mentioned and many others such as Serotonin and dopamine. For the sake of searching they are also known as natural reuptake inhibitors.
Now an MAO-i is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor which means it's something that inhibits the monoamine oxidase which are enzymes responsible for oxidation of neurotransmitters.
inhibition of the neurotransmitters and the inhibition of the enzymes responsible for oxidation of the neurotransmitters are two different things.
Now my disclaimer: I am completely at fault if St John's wort is in fact not a non selective reuptake inhibitor. So that's the first thing you should search.
Good night.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: mhbound]
#413730 - 05/08/10 01:15 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mhbound said:
I think, or at least the people at the local health food place, said that it was because people were mixing it with other prescription drugs trying to exagerate the effects of the other...Causing seretonin syndrome, and also i think was linked to some liver? problems.
You just described every drug available just about. Minus the serotonin syndrome.
This can be found on GNC brand st john's wort
Quote:
Consult your physician prior to using this product if you are pregnant or nursing, taking anti-depressants, birth control pills or other medication, or have a medical condition. Use of this product may cause your skin to be extra sensitive to UV sources, such as artificial or natural sunlight. Avoid excessive exposures from these sources. Discontinue use two weeks prior to surgery.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: captain.koons]
#413858 - 05/08/10 10:17 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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i know what an MAOI is and St John' wort is believed to have an MAOI effect.
http://www.all4naturalhealth.com/st-johns-wort-side-effects.html
i'm only taking 1/3rd the dose you're supposed to take per day anyways. My own anedotal evidence suggests it's working. And one thing is for sure that if it does have an MAOI effect, then melatonin absolutely would take longer to break down.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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mhbound
Ballin out at all cost
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 8,144
Loc: High
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: captain.koons]
#413862 - 05/08/10 10:24 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Quote:
mhbound said:
I think, or at least the people at the local health food place, said that it was because people were mixing it with other prescription drugs trying to exagerate the effects of the other...Causing seretonin syndrome, and also i think was linked to some liver? problems.
You just described every drug available just about. Minus the serotonin syndrome.
This can be found on GNC brand st john's wort
Quote:
Consult your physician prior to using this product if you are pregnant or nursing, taking anti-depressants, birth control pills or other medication, or have a medical condition. Use of this product may cause your skin to be extra sensitive to UV sources, such as artificial or natural sunlight. Avoid excessive exposures from these sources. Discontinue use two weeks prior to surgery.
im the generic disclaimer 
i wasnt too sure so i didnt want to give too much info on what i could recall but at least it was kind of in the ballpark
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Suck my balls America
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: using st john's wort to potentiate melatonin= [Re: Doitagain]
#413872 - 05/08/10 10:47 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Did you even read the link you posted?
It looks like the page was put together for a high school project.
Quote:
There are certain chemical substances in St John's Wort called monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI) and these chemical inhibitors were and are also currently used in the treatment of depression in its mild form.
There's no punctuation and lots of things treat depression in it's mild form.
I will now quote a paper specifically written on the subject.
Quote:
The pharmacologically active constituents of St. John Wort are hypericin and hyperforin. These compounds have a broad-spectrum effect, inhibiting the re-uptake of five major neurotransmitters: serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), and L-glutamate.
Note the bolded text multiple being non selective and the rest really speaks for it's self.
The source : Muller W.E. 2005 St. John's Wort and its principles in depression and anxiety.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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