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 FarBeyondDriven
Truthfully, I'm a bullshitter
 
Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 13,834
Loc: Greenbow, Alabama
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 A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! 
#373783 - 02/25/10 10:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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What actually makes bagseed, mids, whatever you wanna call it?
Is it just dank strains being continuously crossed with each other or what?
I mean, if that's the case, it would just be really dank, right?
I guess a good way to word it it would be...What actually makes me sub par to other weed, or "bad?" I know bout hermies and all that, but what actually makes it not as good? Is it that the mothers were pollinated or lack of light, or what?
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc: 
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 Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
#373825 - 02/25/10 11:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its a combo of things, genetics has a role in some of it. But usually if you grow out a bagseed and put it in proper conditions, then you can usually get some pretty decent results. Also low grade weed is usually in brick form and from mexico lol.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
#373827 - 02/25/10 11:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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what most people like are dense colorful nugs, glazed with trichomes. That's one extreme, the other is brick weed loaded with large stems and tons of seeds. mids are exactly that. bagseed is just the seeds that you find in any given bag of weed.
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 DRAGON
Doors of Perception
Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 834
Loc: Somewhere in the Universe
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
#373833 - 02/25/10 11:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I always figured that mids were simply plants that were vegged for a very short period of time and not cured. Basically, the grower had a lax way of growing and produces those mids. Don't know if this is true though?
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"I know that I know nothing"
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FarBeyondDriven
Truthfully, I'm a bullshitter
Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 13,834
Loc: Greenbow, Alabama
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#373834 - 02/25/10 11:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok, I get all that, but how exactly does it get to that extreme???? What causes that? I know you can grow good bud from bagseed (i.e. Stoney), but how does it become that bad???? I know what you can do to make awesome buds, but is it just hermies breeding with hermies and so on and so on, that makes the shit just bad all around?
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
#373849 - 02/25/10 11:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FarBeyondDriven said:
Ok, I get all that, but how exactly does it get to that extreme???? What causes that? I know you can grow good bud from bagseed (i.e. Stoney), but how does it become that bad???? I know what you can do to make awesome buds, but is it just hermies breeding with hermies and so on and so on, that makes the shit just bad all around?
The growers care and the environment provided. Check out this first picture. It was a bud that i got from a bag of brick weed that I paid $60 an oz for. The second picture is a picture of a seed from that weed in flower. Using a hydro system, a 400 watt HPS, GH floranova and a grower who cared and knew what he was doing. The third picture is the final result. Seedless and tasty. Could have been more dense though. but i had to cut the flowering process short. 
 
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
#373850 - 02/25/10 11:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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LOL, its from not taking great care of your plants. And it being compressed into bricks.
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FarBeyondDriven
Truthfully, I'm a bullshitter
Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 13,834
Loc: Greenbow, Alabama
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#373860 - 02/25/10 11:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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It all makes sense now 
That doesn't even look like the same herb. Yours looks dank as fuck.
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
#373870 - 02/26/10 12:03 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm gonna chalk this question up as +1 for me in the noob test.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 9 years, 7 days
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: Triptonic] 1
#373938 - 02/26/10 02:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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My thoughts on it are that low grade bud has been subjected to at least one of the following:
1. been grown outdoors and without much attention and care. This could result in pests, heat damage, damage from too much rainwater, uncorrected pH problems, all this would lead to a plethora of issues.
2. was not flushed and/or over-fertilized or fertilized 'til harvest. This would result in poor taste. Any residual pesticide or fertilizer would end up in the end product.
3. was dried in the heat/sun. Large outdoor harvests are so much that it is most practical for the grower to allow it to dry in the sun. Light is bad for potency. That is why we dry and cure in dark closets. The sun is the worst thing for harvested buds.
Most of the low grade bud that I have seen I think suffered from most of these.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,044
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: dutc2006]
#374054 - 02/26/10 12:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Triptonic said:
And it being compressed into bricks.
I don't see how pressing degrades anything, being I press hash and all.
Take note of the next quoted post, he hit the nail on the head.
Quote:
dutc2006 said:
My thoughts on it are that low grade bud has been subjected to at least one of the following:
1. been grown outdoors and without much attention and care. This could result in pests, heat damage, damage from too much rainwater, uncorrected pH problems, all this would lead to a plethora of issues.
2. was not flushed and/or over-fertilized or fertilized 'til harvest. This would result in poor taste. Any residual pesticide or fertilizer would end up in the end product.
3. was dried in the heat/sun. Large outdoor harvests are so much that it is most practical for the grower to allow it to dry in the sun. Light is bad for potency. That is why we dry and cure in dark closets. The sun is the worst thing for harvested buds.
Most of the low grade bud that I have seen I think suffered from most of these.
Very well put!
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FarBeyondDriven
Truthfully, I'm a bullshitter
Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 13,834
Loc: Greenbow, Alabama
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: Triptonic]
#374065 - 02/26/10 12:46 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Triptonic said:
I'm gonna chalk this question up as +1 for me in the noob test.
How's that?????
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FarBeyondDriven
Truthfully, I'm a bullshitter
Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 13,834
Loc: Greenbow, Alabama
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: Triptonic]
#374066 - 02/26/10 12:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Triptonic said:
I'm gonna chalk this question up as +1 for me in the noob test.
How's that?????
I was on the right track in my thinking.
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
#374074 - 02/26/10 01:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FarBeyondDriven said:
Quote:
Triptonic said:
I'm gonna chalk this question up as +1 for me in the noob test.
How's that?????
yeah, only stuff from within that thread counts for the test IMO, other wise I can spend 15 minutes with the search function and bring you both down to -25
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: Stoneth]
#374092 - 02/26/10 01:30 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
stoney.69 said:
Quote:
Triptonic said:
And it being compressed into bricks.
I don't see how pressing degrades anything, being I press hash and all.
Take note of the next quoted post, he hit the nail on the head.
Quote:
dutc2006 said:
My thoughts on it are that low grade bud has been subjected to at least one of the following:
1. been grown outdoors and without much attention and care. This could result in pests, heat damage, damage from too much rainwater, uncorrected pH problems, all this would lead to a plethora of issues.
2. was not flushed and/or over-fertilized or fertilized 'til harvest. This would result in poor taste. Any residual pesticide or fertilizer would end up in the end product.
3. was dried in the heat/sun. Large outdoor harvests are so much that it is most practical for the grower to allow it to dry in the sun. Light is bad for potency. That is why we dry and cure in dark closets. The sun is the worst thing for harvested buds.
Most of the low grade bud that I have seen I think suffered from most of these.
Very well put!
I would disagree with number 2. I've never had a grow where I did a proper flush before harvest and both specimen tasted fucking fantastic. That doesn't contribute to low grade bud. I can't comment about the last part of number two either, i dont know the details of the biophysiology.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,044
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#374095 - 02/26/10 01:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Opps yea number 2 would be more along the lines of taste, in my experience.
I have tried not flushing and flushing I will always flush because I preper the cleaner taste, but I do see where it wouldn't make the buzz better or worst.
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God
Yahweh
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: Stoneth]
#374170 - 02/26/10 04:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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If I'm actually understanding the question correctly ("What makes bad weed bad, compared to the fact that you can grow their bagseed out into good bud?"), I think the major factor has yet to be mentioned: pollination.
When a cannabis flower is pollinated, fertilization happens, at which point the flower says "fuck yes, my purpose can now be fulfilled!" and puts as much energy as possible into producing seed. I believe some trichomes will still be produced, but for the most part, energy that would have gone to THC development instead goes to seed production. Shitty weed has been pollinated by all the males and hermis the grower was too lazy to cull.
Sinsemilla is a sex-starved virgin, and that's how we want her!
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: God]
#374221 - 02/26/10 06:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I got thousands of seeds from my last grow. The weed get's me just as high as any other weed i've had. I also mentioned seeded bud above. that would obviously imply pollination had taken place.
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God
Yahweh
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#374263 - 02/26/10 06:46 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I guess I just didn't think that the pollination factor was getting enough attention, when it seems like that and the fact that mexibrick is often dried in piles in the sun are the two major factors working against potency of low-quality weed. I look at all the threads in the cultivation forum as where the newcomers will look first, and figure they should all be as complete as possible.
That's interesting that your seeded bud was as potent as unseeded. Have you grown that strain without it getting pollinated?
I think another possible factor affecting potency is just handling. The more hands it passes through, the more times it's pulled out of its bag, broken down into smaller increments, put into another bag, etc., the more trichomes get knocked off and left behind. I find if my supply gets really dry, it'll leave behind a lot more trichomes in the jar than if it were properly moistened.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: God]
#374265 - 02/26/10 06:52 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are 100% correct there. the threads should be as thorough as possible. No, i've never grown out that strain other than the one time. And I wont. Had hermies on it. I'll make the seeds into something but they wont be planted. They need to be taken out of the cannabis gene pool.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 9 years, 7 days
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#374273 - 02/26/10 06:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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FB, I do not know how much fertilizing you do in the final weeks of flowering, but if you have never done a proper flush, I would highly recommend you give it a try on your next grow. Especially if you are using synthetic chemical fertilizers (the whole "organic ferts taste better" argument may be a farce anyways). I think you will be very happy with the results. I am not doubting that you thought your unflushed buds tasted good, but that if you flush, they will be better and worth the effort. This is one of the things that home growers can implement that often doesn't take place in commercial grows, and that goes for fruits and vegetables as well.
I admit, I do not know for fact that there would be residual fertilizer left in the bud after a proper dry and cure. However, I think the consensus from experienced growers is that there is, and in a major way. Supposedly, Nitrogen adversely affects taste the most in finished bud, and naturally if you know what you are doing growing cannabis, you are not pumping too much N into your plant in the latter stages of flowering. But flushing the growing medium and removing fertilizers during the final 2 weeks (1 week in hydro) forces the plant to spend all the stored nutrients in it's tissues. At this point the grower should not be worried about any kind of deficiency, because essentially what you want the plant to do is die.
The reason products like Clearex are made is that they help encourage the plant to carry out this process of using up it's stored nutrients, in addition to leeching out toxic salts as it runs through the medium. Were you to just give the plant plain water for the pre-harvest flush, albeit a good thing, after a couple waterings the plant would "sense" that it is not getting the food it is used to and will start to slow down its "metabolism" so to speak. Flushing agents trick the plant into thinking it is getting a low dose of nutrients, and the plant keeps it's "metabolism" high and continues to use up what is left in it's tissues despite no additional ferts being added.
My first grow I didn't flush, and I thought the bud tasted pretty good. I could definitely sense a chemically/fertilizer bitter taste, though. I have a friend who still stubbornly refuses to flush due to laziness IMO, and I think the taste from his bud exhibits the same chemical taste I tasted in my first harvest.
In my honest opinion if you want top notch bud, you must flush.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 9 years, 7 days
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: dutc2006]
#374282 - 02/26/10 07:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sorry for double posting, but I thought I would share my thoughts on the pollination thing.
In my experience, once a plant has been pollinated, the pollinated buds start to slow down calyx formation while the seed grows. This results in a loss in yield, but I don't think potency necessarily has to be affected. I guess it also depends when the plant was pollinated in it's flowering cycle and to what extent it was pollinated (i.e. how many buds were pollinated). I have seen some people argue that one of the trichome's natural purposes is protection, and specifically protection of the seed bract, and that pollinated bud may produce more trichomes. I haven't seen this from experience, my pollinated plants just happened to be poor producers in yield and potency.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: dutc2006]
#374296 - 02/26/10 07:27 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh man, i didn't have a choice in not doing the flush. I was forced to cut my flowering time short due to scares and an inspection. I had planned on doing a flush. I wouldn't recommend not doing one, but i was surprised that the buds didn't taste terrible while not having a flush period. inverted can comment on it too as he tried em out. well, once the seed starts to develop the trichs surrounding that calyx have done their jobs - protecting the calyx and pistils from being damaged by pests. it works just the opposite as im sure you know. a primary driving factor in the development of trichs is extreme sexual frustration. obviously, if a plant you want to be sensimilla is producing seeds you can reasonably conclude that the production of those seeds is a diversion of the plants resources that you would want to be placed in the act of extreme sexual frustration which would be the trichs and calyx formation.
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 9 years, 7 days
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#374305 - 02/26/10 07:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Right on brother!
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TrueHerbCrystal
Uncertified Oregrowian
Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,352
Loc: Emerald City
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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 Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: FarBeyondDriven]
#374834 - 02/27/10 07:50 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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For the longest time, I thought "mids" meant ""medium-grade" weed, like exactly between swag and dank. In other words, Average buds, nothing special but still good enough to get you high.
And know you're saying that "mids" are budz with seeds in them. I'm confused...why are they called "mids" then? Why aren't they called something more LogicaL, like "seeded nugz" or "unpopped popcorn".
Can any explain that to me?
Slang is frickin' Weird...
~ TrueHerbCrystal
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: A question just popped into my freaking head man!!!!!! [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#374838 - 02/27/10 07:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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your first line is correct as far as I am concerned. mids should still be sinsemilla. for the most part anyway. I've found seeds in some really good herb before. but who knows where that pollen came from. seeds are only prominent in schwag imo.
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