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 DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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 Re: LST Review and Questions  [Re: DrGreenThumb]
#352056 - 01/22/10 07:14 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, DrGreen....
The inside of my plant is the same exact mess as yours... Have you thought about if you're going to thin it at all? I was thinking after the flowering stretch I may chop everything that's lookin a little shiesty...
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DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: DudeTron]
#352057 - 01/22/10 07:22 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Also, I was thinking with my next babies I'll do the 5th node top, the tie-down, and after the resulting 'fill-in' throwing it into flower...
I think a 4 week veg that looked like this:
Would be a great plant to flower a couple of... It'd be a good way to get to know your genetics without a huge commitment too.
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 DrGreenThumb
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 487
Loc: Phish Tour 
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: DudeTron]
#352062 - 01/22/10 07:43 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, I am going to thin after the flowering stretch, but only the branches that are blocked by light that don't look like they will produce a nice nug. Like I said earlier, I haven't flowered an LST'd plant yet so it will be a learning experience for me.
From what I gathered from that TEK, I don't think he topped after the 5th NODE but after the first set of 5-blade leafs; which looks more like the 3rd. or 4th. node.
If you look at the pic of my flowering ladies, those were topped after the 5th. or 6th. node (not sure, it's hard to keep count when the internodal spacing is so short). Now I'm thinking I should have done it one or two nodes sooner.
I'm still new (see noob) at this myself but I'm learning fast. I feel like I can't learn much more from researching on the internet. I NEED more space to work with, which requires more light. Unfortunately, I'm out of a job for the winter and funds are limited. Luckily by the end of next summer I should be well ahead of the game. After all I do have a pretty big spare bedroom to use the only obstacle is getting it all lit up.
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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss
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DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: DrGreenThumb]
#352142 - 01/22/10 10:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, you're right about the topping. First growth after five-bladers.
I paraphrased mentally and then forgot and it came out fucked up... When it happens in real life my girl says I'm speaking "dudetron" language...
Anyway man, you're my hero if you've got a whole room to work with... What kind of light do you have? I think you could fuck around with veg quite a bit... a real nice veg room can be made for cheap... You could keep a sweet bonsai mom, take clones, practice training, and just flower one or two at a time this winter. Hmm... If you lived in a medical area, could you sell a vegging, mature, mommy bush to a patient?
I'm pretty excited now to see how all of ours are gonna look when it's all said and done. My main stem is 'spiral' style with no topping so it's gonna look insane full of buds after a harvest manicure.
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DrGreenThumb
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 487
Loc: Phish Tour
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: DudeTron]
#352251 - 01/23/10 05:23 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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You can see the light I'm running on the first page of this post. It's a General Electric 400W vertical high-bay HPS. Here's the story behind it from my second post ever.
Quote:
DrGreenThumb said:
One day my girlfriend was x-country skiing and I was walking on the trail for my lack of skiing skills, when my girl stopped to get a bird nest (don't ask, she's like that). I walked ahead and decided to explore this abandoned factory. The roof had caved in in parts because of the snow and the inside was a dump but I was curious. I walked into one room where the roof was collapsed and guess what I found? That's right, right there on the placard on the ballast it read 400W HPS. Much to my surprise it was already rigged for 110V. The roof had barely missed it when it collapsed and it was frozen to the floor in solid ice. Like it's gonna work, right?
Here's the weird part. I started looking around the room for something to break the ice. Nothing. I came back to the light and BAM!!! Leaning against the wall, right next to the light, was an old ice chisel! Almost like God saying, "Grow my son." So I chipped out the reflector from the ice and returned that night to pick it up in the truck. I'm thinking, like that piece of shit is gonna work. So I get it home drag it upstairs and plug er in. BBZZZZZ! Just like magic.
I love telling that story. I still can't believe it happened. I always wanted an HPS but could never justify the expense to myself. Boy was I wrong! Now I need to upgrade to at least 1K watts. When destiny burns out your retinas, GROW WEED. 
I am currently flowering in the main room and vegging in the closet. I can't really make use of anymore space until I get a tent for flowering. I'm trying to keep the room as normal looking as possible. It's on the third floor and I like to open the curtain during the day so no one get suspicious. I don't want anyone saying (or thinking), "What's that funny looking glow coming from that window 12 hrs a day?" See what I'm getting at? 
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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: DrGreenThumb]
#352298 - 01/23/10 11:23 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have had great success with LST and auto flowering strain. This was done under 1000 watt HPS for about twenty days while they finished veg stage and continued with careful, daily tieing and adjusting, promoting a never ending race of hormones competing to be the supreme top. As they preflowered I continued and did it during the flowering life for about 20 more days. Finally, at this point, each plant has a minimum of 12 "tops" and a few more side tops and mini tops. I have released them, trim them and completely let them grow freely now for about 20 more days at the time of the photos, the off colour is mostly because I shot them with my camera under the light while it was on, but you can get the point. They are bigger and thicker in real life, pictures never do justice:
   
Each LST'ed stalk runs a length from 8 inches to 14 inches depending on plant and flowering is occurring from growing base to the artificially created canopy level.
These plants still have 4 more weeks left in their predicted flowering length based on the strain.
So LST can and does work with auto flowering strains, improves yield tremendous if done correct.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009 
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: Azyle00]
#352413 - 01/23/10 05:17 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Holy shit Azyle that is some pro training on those AF's... damn nice.
I can't believe those are autoflowers... wtf. I wonder if training slowed down the initiation of flowering allowing for more vegetative growth.
I'm trying to make mine do that exact same thing, Im just waiting on time... I have to flower before they get quite that large though.
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Don't criticize what you can't understand
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DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: Inverted]
#352448 - 01/23/10 06:39 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah Azyle those are great man... Can you go over your training technique briefly? Do you top at all? How old before you start training? Also, it's worth noting that Azyle DOES LET THEM GO (untie) after initial stretch, 2-3 weeks into flower.
Man, so that puts those AF at 12 weeks total? How's that compare to other AFs? Pretty common? I'm thinking along the same lines; does training slow them down?
That is a great story btw DrGreen... Twas meant to be man. I remember your light from earlier now too. I think if I were really gonna go for it in a spare bedroom, I'd make a false front for the window... Just enough room to make a box which can hold a regular lamp on a timer, with a heavy curtain over it.
Also I see what you mean about your space situation... are you out of room in the closet? Like I was saying, you can really go mad scientist on some veg stuff... cull all but the best, get your cloning down, train like crazy. Especially if you've got your flower space all dialed in, that can be worth alot... Tents and cabinets start adding headaches and bills real quick engineering proper ventilation etc. Working in an entire room can be way more forgiving.
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: DudeTron]
#352826 - 01/24/10 09:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks.
As for technique, I germinated and seeded them and veg them under flo lights for about 2 weeks then around 4th node, transplanted and moved to the 1000 watt HPS. Once they hit 9 inches or so, about 4 weeks since seed, I began tieing them off. I use speaker wire etc, flexible copper with plastic coating that you can buy at home depot quite cheap and cut to size. This make adjusting them daily possible if you need too. Like a clock face, I bend and tie off the top of the plant to 12 oclock and waited for dominance to appear and then tie off the first two nodes that take off 6 oclock and 5 oclock positions etc, always maintaining multiple tops now that are trying to be number one. By the time a few weeks go by, I have easily a dozen tops and have been running the orignal top clockwise and working it into tops etc.
LST for this strain, Early Wonder Skunk did not delay flowering imho. Flowering and sex and all that was right on schedule. But this strain grows a fair bit for the official first two weeks of flowering, 3 weeks even. These plants are now twelve weeks along and I expect 3 - 4 more weeks flowering to finish still. 30 day Veg period, 90 day flowering is what I have read for the strain. Point being, you can get this AF under your 1000 HPS quite early, cause it to stretch grow a bit during the LST and have it fully trained by the time it has finished 90% of all height based growing. Now they grow an inch a week if I am lucky and its all top bud.
I released all the training like I said once things were set in place and growth had slowed considerably to allow the plant to finish out its growth, flowering naturally. It really gets to a point where the training is no longer required.
I do not top at all, that is a complete waste of hormones, top growth. Causes stress to plant etc. Also, my technical tops still have the thickest bud growth, despite having spent the majority of its life as the non dominant branch.
I really should take some better pictures, the ones I posted do not show off the true size of the buds lol.
When training, I have also discovered that HPS lights can add some needed stretch, specifically when you did use proper flo lights early in the training and created a very compact set of 4 nodes, then pop into the HPS and it will grow very fast and allow you to get set up quickly in the desired shape. Two weeks of serious shaping and tieing I would say, with a lot of tweaking after as it grows into shape and settles.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: Azyle00]
#352868 - 01/25/10 12:50 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wow thanks Az that's damn near a tek. I think the pics look great and pretty much speak for themselves as far as how well your method works.
I like the idea of intentional stretch too. So when trying to stretch with floro is it just not possible because you've also slowed down growth too much at those distances or what? hmmm
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: DudeTron]
#352986 - 01/25/10 02:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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No it is possible but not in a way that is beneficial to this long term as it both causes stretching but inhibits growth as you are causing the stretch with flo lights by reducing Lumens via distance. In my case, I am reducing the spectrum of light to a very thin amount of blue from the Hydrolux, so it continues to receive the ample amount of light, but the lack of blue light causes it to stretch when vegging. The idea here being you are stretching the branches after having initially built a tight 4 to 5 node main stalk prior to LST and the HPS light.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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DrGreenThumb
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 487
Loc: Phish Tour
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Re: LST Review and Questions [Re: Azyle00]
#353476 - 01/26/10 10:03 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah thanks for showing us that Azyle. I guess I will untie one and see what happens. That does sound more interesting now that I think about it longer.
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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss
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