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 Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal 
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 Debate: removing damaged leaves. 
#348202 - 01/15/10 12:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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What's the point at which you start removing damaged leaves? On the one hand, damaged leaves consume energy while the plant tries to repair them. On the other hand, once part of a leaf is damaged beyond repair the plant may not put any energy into repairing it, and what remains of the leaf will still photosynthesize.
So what do you do?
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#348215 - 01/15/10 12:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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My understanding is that when leaves are more than 50% diseased or damaged, as u put it, they should be removed. As the plants develop the oldest fan leaves on the plant naturally lose their grip on the main stalk. Now i would assume that this also relates to the amount and flow of nutrients available to that particular leaf. I usually start at the bottom and will kind of firmly push down on the top of the petoile where it connects to the stalk. if it falls then great and I remove it from the area. if not, then that's even better. that's just what ive been doing on the two grows I have done.
edit:
good topic 
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#348245 - 01/15/10 01:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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When I pull on them very slightly and they come off with no effort.
If I have to put ANYTHING into it, I let it stay, because obviously the plant isn't ready to let it go.
MY URGENT QUESTION IS THIS! (sorry harry)
My lower budsites are SEVERELY light deprived because of my thick canopy of indica fans. I NEVER remove good leaves but these are seriously reeking havoc on the lower half of the plant.
Is it okay to remove a few "key" leaves that would allow light to the lower buds? I really can't afford to let all of those potential buds go to popcorn, when they really do look like they could improve.
I know you don't make a house more efficient by removing the solar panels and whatnot, but there are plenty of other perfect fans, but there are just a select few that I feel could go. What do you think?
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Don't criticize what you can't understand
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coda
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,736
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: Inverted]
#348343 - 01/15/10 04:34 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is it okay to remove a few "key" leaves that would allow light to the lower buds? I really can't afford to let all of those potential buds go to popcorn, when they really do look like they could improve.
I always do. Thing is, while the leaves DO act like solar panels, if your plant is flush with healthy fans removing a few here and there will not really hurt you.
Quote:
My understanding is that when leaves are more than 50% diseased or damaged, as u put it, they should be removed.
+1 If around 1/2 of my leaf is crisped, yellowed, whatever, I just clip it. At the very least I'll clip off the dead part and leave the living tissue.
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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.
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 DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: coda]
#348461 - 01/15/10 08:22 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I thought that especially in the case of yellowing, the healthier growth is actually leeching sugars and nutrients from the lower plant to sustain itself.
If that's true then when you remove a leaf you'd always be throwing away some goodies. Maybe most of the time it's just not that critical...
Personally I've been doing the 'if it lets go of it with slight pressure' approach.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: DudeTron]
#348470 - 01/15/10 08:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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that seems to be the consensus thus far, if it lets go of it with slight pressure. I can't speak to the details of the biophysiology involved. I wish I could and would love to read a brief synopsis of how that system works.
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#348476 - 01/15/10 09:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good to hear. I'll remove those tomorrow morning when the lights are on.
I should have a while ago, but at least they still have a couple weeks to fatten up, which they seem to be finally...
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Don't criticize what you can't understand
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: Inverted]
#348481 - 01/15/10 09:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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but now what about leaves that have been damaged by nutrient burn, water on the leaves, or bug damage? those almost never let go easily no matter how damaged they are.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#348486 - 01/15/10 09:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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like coda and i said, if it's more than 50% damaged pluck it.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 5,615
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
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 Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#348490 - 01/15/10 09:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Like everyone else if it comes off.
Cut bad tissue off leaves and let the good tissue stay.
And if a leave looks like its needs to be gone ,then its cut off.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever sence.
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DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: KaptKid]
#348497 - 01/15/10 11:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I guess ultimately it comes down to aesthetics... In nature it would take an another animal brushing against a plant or strong weather to remove sub-par growth.
I'd be willing to say a leaf is never hurting its own plant aside from infection or infestation, which are both parasitic circumstances.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: DudeTron]
#348500 - 01/15/10 11:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well the issue is draining nutrients from the bud development. not necessarily hurting the plant but just a method for redistribution of nutrients and the plants efforts towards a more vigorous search for pollen (bud development). no?
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dutc2006
Grow or Die
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 199
Last seen: 9 years, 8 days
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#348513 - 01/16/10 01:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I too only remove leaves that come off with little to no force. Usually these leaves display themselves as yellow, or crispy. I have found that when I just trim away the dead material from the leaf, that the cut area begins to yellow very quickly thereafter, leading me to think that the plant is ridding itself of this leaf naturally anyways. Some of my plants have seemed to be revived after being rid of dead weight damaged leaves.
I think cutting healthy leaves to reveal lower popcorn buds to light is not beneficial, and overzealous trimming of fan leaves for aesthetics or air circulation is detrimental and stunts growth.
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the man
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 825
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: dutc2006]
#348518 - 01/16/10 03:02 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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in a perfect world we would at max trim big fan leaves. harvest top then leave the bottom an extra few weeks to mature without those big fan leaves in the way. But so many factors as always. this way woudl prob work best on sativa dom. just because you could have nugs with all white pistils on the bottom and 90% brown on the top half. again i just love biology and this makes sense to me but im sure experience tells a different story. And likely why scrog is used, not chop and let mature more. hahah
peace
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the man
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 825
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: the man]
#348519 - 01/16/10 03:07 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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also those fall off the bone leaves may be taken off early as it takes awhile for the ethylene to take affect. and perhaps taking the leaves you know are gunna come off anyway a bit earlier will allow more of the production of ethylene to the buds to mature??? i dunno. and im kinda on a shit talk session here, so ill shut up.
peace
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: dutc2006]
#348615 - 01/16/10 12:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dutc2006 said:
I think cutting healthy leaves to reveal lower popcorn buds to light is not beneficial, and overzealous trimming of fan leaves for aesthetics or air circulation is detrimental and stunts growth.
I disagree. I have literally 50-60 nice big fans on a plant. Show me what is damaging by removing 10% of those, so that 50% of the plant will be allowed more direct light?
One big fan at the top of the plant, can shade the entire bottom half of the plant. The bottom half has it's own fans but they aren't receiving light, so when I cut the one up top, the energy is transferred to the leaves that are newly exposed. Those buds as a result will be much larger and more mature in the end. If you are scissor happy then yes, it won't be beneficial but the point was to take only "KEY" leaves that were blocking major areas that need more development.
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Don't criticize what you can't understand
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: Inverted]
#348619 - 01/16/10 12:19 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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the way I see it- there's only so much square footage of light that your bulb can produce, so after you're done training the plant to grow horizontally removing leafs won't increase the amount of light absorbed. once the floor is in complete shade your plant is catching all possible light, so removing a top fan leaf to let the light to bottom leafs won't increase the total amount of energy absorbed by the plant, it'll just redistribute it
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the man
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 825
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#348682 - 01/16/10 02:57 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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light intensity drops off exponentially the further from the bulb. cause the radius squared. also will the main cola grow just as large as the 2 extra bud sites would buy cutting that one leaf??
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: the man]
#348707 - 01/16/10 04:06 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Now I'm not for trimming leaves off of a plant as I've said you don't take the solar panels off of a house and expect it to be more efficient. Now if they are broken then you have to take them off.
Same for sick leaves. The plant will use more energy trying to fix the leaf then if you just took it off. There will be no difference if you remove sick leaves. Now if you have enough sick leaves that removing them all looks like it will make a difference in the plants growth then you have bigger problems then just removing leaves.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
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DudeTron
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 407
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Debate: removing damaged leaves. [Re: Magash]
#348758 - 01/16/10 05:22 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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So, is there any way to tell if a plant is trying to heal a leaf or if it is trying to suck nutrients back out of it?
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