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Well it's Friday already and that pretty much only means one thing to me! Updates...
This is a picture of Day 4 after the germinated seeds were put under soil. I believe they had been up for about 21/2 days. (P.S. There are 5 other (hopefully) future mothers - Chrstal, Hindu x Master Kush that are around 10 days old and semi-neglected )
I had them under only (1) 30w - 3,000k bulb for a couple days to give them some light to orient them. I added another equal bulb on day 4, and yesterday I added a 3rd for a total of ~90 Watts of CFL's. I'm skimping as of right now, I know; but a lot of my focus and time has been working on correcting/updating my flowering cab.
Yes they are jerry-rigged into position and it looks half-assed, but I can assure you by next weeks update everything will look more clean and correct. I need to construct a small support structure to hold all of the sockets and cords in an organized manner, as well as keeping the light source at one even level. I can adjust the plants individually to give them the optimal distance and light intensity.
I know that is NOT enough lighting to vegetate 4-5 small mothers, but it should be fine for the first couple weeks. They will begin to stretch after that If I don't do something to increase light penetration. What do you guys think about LST on mothers? I would think that tying them down would create faster growth of the secondary branches/future clones? The other option is to take the apical tips of each mother in the first batch of cuts, which in turn has basically the same effect of LST. I'll probably go with option 2 out of simplicity and proven methods.
I think instead of buying 3 more regular CFL's for the mothers, I would just invest in another 65w. The one in the flower cab is performing absolutely great compared to smaller (30-40w) bulbs. Don't get me wrong, those sizes work great; but the Lumens/Watt ratio of the 65w is the most efficient size. It barely puts off any heat because the ballast has a nice built in heatsink. If I get another one of those reflectors ($25 Light + Reflector Combo) I think I'll be just fine. It's not like I will let them become bushes because I'll be taking ~10 cuts every 4 weeks. 150w should be just fine for keeping them in good health!
Over the next 3-4 weeks I'll be building a brand new flower cab. I will harvest my current 5 flowering ladies (@ Day 34 now), transfer the mothers to the old/current flower cab, and clones will move into the Veg box. It will be a nice perpetual system on a nearly non-existent budget IMO... I'm sick of waiting 3-4 months and not being satisfied with the yields, because I end up smoking it all in about a month! Now I plan to harvest ~2 Oz's/Month, which is more than 2x the amount I smoke.
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
These plants are of AWESOME genetics. I know I have grown some decent strains in the past, but I can already tell that these are the best. They are showing more vigor than any others. The roots are already covering the outside of the keg cups, and 2 had to be transplanted already! The 2 that were transplanted were actually damaged pretty badly on the walk from my house to the shed. It was -12 outside and it appears that they had frozen in a very short amount of time. Some of the leaves dried up and died, but they will be fine and are already continuing on. The roots are big, fluffy, fuzzy and bright white. The best and healthiest I have seen personally. I'm also using half of my normal soil mix, and half Fox Farm Ocean Forest. This is going to make a HUGE difference in my average growth rates. I know this because it is SO fluffy and airy compared to what I usually use.
Plants were fed their first dosage of nutrients and they loved it. Perked up in 24 hours and made an obvious jump in size. I gave them a nice load of Neptune's Harvest - Organic Fish and Seaweed fertilizer. It has worked wonders in the past and I finally got a hold of some. I recommend it to anyone. I think the N-P-K is (2-3-1), so I use it until the last week of flower. The rest of the transplants will go down tomorrow or the next day, to 1 Gallon containers until sex is determined. Enough chatter, here's a sneak peak at them for now. Not much to look at but they are all healthy. A couple blemishes here and there but all of the new growth this week has been immaculate.
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Early update. I got antsy and took pictures this morning after the transplants yesterday. They look pretty fucking healthy for only 20 days above soil. I put them all into 1 gallon containers of 70/30 FFOF cut with Schultz potting mix. They seem to like it. Root systems are very healthy and fat. I have 1 female and 1 ? Hindu x Master Kush. They aren't looking very healthy, although they are the largest plants. I think they will clear up after the transplant. They were far too rootbound and probably deficient in more areas than one. We will see.
Well I don't really have any other news, except they are growing like there is no tomorrow. I'm impressed with this run. ZERO mistakes is the goal. I always manage to make one mistake with each run, and it's usually attributed to my laziness, which will NOT get in the way anymore. I want a full canopy, because with a small floorprint the more tops the higher yield I'm going to get.
Here's the goods.
Look at how fat and healthy those leaves are. They also have a glossy finish which I think is a Bubba trait.
Quote: FarBeyondDriven said: oh dude cant wait to see how this one goes. good luck man.
(more pics of training if you are doing it please?)
Funny you say that. I'm beginning training in the next day or two. Now that I have them In 1 gallon pots, they won't need to be moved until I sex them, and I'll have the main stem trained and hardened into place by then.
If you pay attention to how I did my first run in this system, and this run, you will see major differences. I transplanted too late last time and stunted them. I also have them in proper soil. (FFOF). Also have awesome nutes which I didn't pick up until half way through flowering of that run. No more laziness!
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
It removes the main growing tip and allows the secondary branches to shoot up and become their own main tips. So instead of growing a plant with one big cola and a bunch of smaller side buds, you can grow a plant with multiple large colas and small side buds.
The above pic is an example of a plant I topped while it was a tiny cutting. I should update that thread again, it's gotten way bigger with the flowering stretch.
Topping basically ceases vertical growth, while encouraging multiple tops and a more even canopy. It does not change or effect sexing.
When you cut the top off of the plant, you remove the primary growing tip. In turn, the top node below the cut will become primary, and the 2 little branches that are there when you cut, will become the 2 main stalks of the plant. All of the growth hormones that usually go directly to the main tip will now be diverted to the 2 branches at the new highest node. More of the growth hormone will also be able to reach the rest of the branches, so the original main stalk will just thicken up, not grow much longer, and all of the separate branches will begin to appear like they are their own plant. Here is a plant that I topped, notice the awesome large branches. The bigger the branch, the more it can support and larger buds will form on each branch. I like topping and tying down, but tying seems to incur less stress.
It's the large plant. Too bad it was a male
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Looking great as expected Inverted! i cant wait to see the flowers!
Quote: FarBeyondDriven said: ok. from reading about it, i knew where to cut it, i just wasn't exactly sure what it did. thanks guys. well that pretty much doubles, maybe triples your harvest i would think.
hopefully your reading includes this thread. If not, spend half of your evening reading it and going trhough those other links. Reading through grow journals is an excellent way to learn as well! You're right on track my man.
Quote: FurrowedBrow said: Looking great as expected Inverted! i cant wait to see the flowers!
Quote: FarBeyondDriven said: ok. from reading about it, i knew where to cut it, i just wasn't exactly sure what it did. thanks guys. well that pretty much doubles, maybe triples your harvest i would think.
hopefully your reading includes this thread. If not, spend half of your evening reading it and going trhough those other links. Reading through grow journals is an excellent way to learn as well! You're right on track my man.
A picture is worth 1,000 words.
yeah i read that thread a few days ago actually. great post FB. i'll have to watch closely on this grow log and maybe ask a question here and there when it gets to the training part. but i did learn a lot from your post FB.
Well according to the clock its Day 25, not time yet for an update, but I figured I'd show you guys my LST tek...
Okay well here is an example of what the plants looked like pre-training.
This is the best time because it is about as large as they will get before the stem starts to harden and becomes difficult to modify.
First I take a 3/16" drill bit and make a hole near the top edge of the container, but I also look at how the branches are forming and make sure it is in the direction that is best for the plant to bend towards, making sure no major branches will be on the bottom side.
Tie off one side of the string to the hole at this time.
I apply light pressure and "feel" where the plant starts to stress, and I stop at that point and loop the string around/over the main stem, making sure to be about 3/4 of the way up, and not blocking any future growth points with the string. I usually rest it just below the "Y" of the fan leaves, keeping the string from going any further up the plant.
I then release the pressure once the string is in place and take one last look to make sure everything is in the right place, and prepare to tie it off to the pot again.
Pull on the loose end of the string in the direction of the anchor hole and the plant will smoothly bend down into place. Keep note of where you felt it should be placed and tie it off at that level. For me it's usually almost all the way on it's side, and I have found that if you don't tie it down far enough the first time, it won't do much unless you re adjust it lower. You really want as much light penetration as possible to those interior secondary branches.
That is what my plants look like after training, it takes about 5 minutes per plant and as the plant grows I may need to add a 2nd string, but for now this will promote a LOT of thick strong branches, instead of 1 main stem and cola.
It's not very pretty, but when I take my weekly update pictures this Friday you won't recognize them anymore. Or so I hope
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Yep he's right (Trip). I just let it stand back up after looping the string around to make sure I'm not going to break any leaves or branches when I pull it down permanently. It's really really simple, you just have to maybe get your hands dirty to really get the feel for what's going on, but basically bend the plant down til you feel it's pressure point, note that, loop string, release finger pressure, pull string down tight, tie off, viola.
I'd recommend it to ANYONE who can't grow huge trees indoors. It's as effective as topping without the week of delayed growth IMO.
The scrog is next...
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Sorry for the delay on the updates, I have been busy lately and feeling under the weather. The good news is that this grow is progressing EXACTLY how I planned, which is how it should be.
I'm absolutely loving these plants. When I was in the garden, I could smell these vegging plants over the plants that were cut down later that night, if that isn't saying something. I also tried to show you how I transplant, as I feel it has a MAJOR impact on soil grows.
It's probably hard to tell the difference from a normal transplant by the pictures but the difference I made in the last couple years that has made a big difference was to roll the rootball in my hands until the bottom starts falling apart, exposing all of those large sexy roots on the bottom. Once they loosen up, I lightly tug on them, so they separate a bit and then I lower her into place. The key here is when you set her down, you use your dexterity here to pull those loosened roots out on top of the new soil, effectively allowing them to branch out much faster after they take to the new soil. If you damage them too much, they may delay for a day or two, but in the end they will take off like no other. I learned this tek from ICmag a while back and will never change my methods again because I have seen the proof.
Today is the first day of 12/12! I'm putting the screen over them today and starting the final training stage. I'm really excited to see how this works out. With the even canopy my yields are going to probably double. I really missed out last grow but that's okay, I wasn't being too serious about that run. Plus I gotta show Magash some good results!
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
I took a shot of them this morning. The new cab is amazing. I can feel the airflow as well as hear it and it was 72 degrees at canopy level. I'm very satisfied with the design.
I tied down the plants again and am giving them a day or two before I apply the screen, I just didn't feel they were ready for it in the position they were in. They needed to be more horizontal before I attempted again, and I needed some of the initial stretch of flowering to get the lower tops to the same height. It shouldn't take long.
I have too much vertical space, I need a 250
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Quote: tsollost said: lookin good dude don't know how I haven't visited this thread in weeks keep up the good work
And Furrowed- I know right? They are going to be some supa dank couchlockers
Keep visiting and comments are ALWAYS APPRECIATED. I tend to get bored and love conversations and questions about my setup etc...
What I'm loving about this new home for them is the simplicity and effectiveness of the cab. I'm only using about 1/3 of the vertical height but everything is just plain clean. I mean the paint job and design are just simple in concept, yet it's bright as shit w/o mylar and sealed watertight nonetheless, and the strong PC fan being used in a passive intake system is working beyond my expectations. I thought it would be underpowered for my space (~130CFM/16 Ft3) but it is STEADY at 72 degrees which is room temp! I'm sorry for ranting but I have never been this proud of a DIY project like this before, even though I've made much more complicated and labor intensive things. I love growing Cannabis more than most things in my life, what can I say?
I have a roll of 20" wide aluminum sheeting and it would work great to build reflectors for CFL's (Coming soon... Ugh it's more work) and I will lay a piece down on the floor to reflect any additional light possible. It can't hurt I can make 4 sided reflectors to be installed onto any CFL's I use for supplemental lighting, which I feel is a must for optimizing my space. This 150 doesn't spread out the light very well, especially when you keep it 5" from the canopy like me.
This guide is the reason I have chosen to grow the plants the way that I have. 4" is the closest you should be to a 150 and I can attest to that. Any closer is harmful. Then from the canopy, you really only get "intense usable" light for the next 9 INCHES!
This means 2 things.
1. Plant size/height are going to be limited. You don't want them any taller than 14 inches IMO. Anything taller and the lowest buds just won't produce like you want them to. I'll also mention that you want a low-stretching strain for a 150.
2. LST or HST (Some sort of training) needs to be utilized for maximum yield. My first run was a prime example of this. I didn't tie them down like I normally would and suffered the consequences. Instead of multiple nice tops, each plant only grew 1 cola, and the lower branches were so short and low on the plant, that they were out of the "intense" light range so they developed slower and w/ less mass.
What I have done this grow is: A. Veg for longer, providing a better growth structure for bud development, and flowering when sexually mature ensuring a quicker transition to bloom. B. Utilize LST and keep these larger vegged plants shorter than my previous harvest, even though the plants are 3-4x the overall size than my last run when flipped to 12/12. I think the yields will be much higher just from the double veg time, but add the LST and I'm going to have a nice pile of chunky buds from this crew of sexy ladies!
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Quote: FarBeyondDriven said: dude i can't wait. i'm gonna learn so much...i think.
*ahemlotsapicsahem*
I hope so! I know I ramble A LOT, but it's only because I want to give people details to go along with the grow. That and I'm high as fuck.
Quote: DudeTron said: Man, your cab really puts mine to shame.... The walls are so smooth! Insanely clean bro... I'm feeling what you're saying about the height too. I don't use about a foot of my vert after training... and it took my plant a 10 week veg to make a canopy out of a 2 gal pot anyway, so it's not like we can squeeze any more plants in there by keeping them skinny.... Unless maybe we could get some tall skinny pots?
So where does your air actually go? Is the cab sitting in a large room that maintains ambient? Mine's in a tiny closet that heats up quick... Nice you don't have to use a scrubber either..
ROck on dude
Thank You! I took a lot of time making it just right for what I wanted.
There is a small, shitty, unfinished basement where I live, which barely gets any outside light so it works great. NO ONE goes down there anyways, but I built the cab that way nonetheless. Yes the air just get's exchanged into the basement, which has the ventilation system in it so the basement air gets fresh air all the time too. I have been following your journal and am liking what I am seeing. I totally agree with using LST in personal grows. I really feel it boosts yields significantly.
Quote: pha3r0 said: Looking very plush! Can you tell me or show me how even the canopy is before the screen? The one I am running is going to be replaced by 2-4 in the next run. They will be clones but I am wondering how well they will stay even. Have you noticed them completing for height or are they staying fairly low and even with the LST?
Thanks man! Yes I'll show you the before after. These plants were actually very similar in height before training, but I just wanted the lower budsites to produce stronger, and giving them more of the growth hormones is the best way I can think of. I should be putting the screen on in the next day or two if the branching takes off like I expect.
Don't mind the other plants in the back. The 4 main plants are the Bubba x SS. This is before tying down the 2nd time.
After tying
They stay perfectly even with the LST because you can decide exactly how tall you want each little bush. It is important to start early though, by 3 weeks of veg. I would recommend the first adjustment.
As for competing for height, I have noticed these plants to be nearly equal in growth rates and internode distance (all <1").
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Quote: pha3r0 said: Hey let me in on the bucket secret guys! if we keep 4 of the clones to flower and 2 as mothers those square buckets would fit very nice in the freeezer.
Quote: Inverted said: I'm debating that very same concept. I've done a good enough job of keeping everything even and branching that I'm not even sure I need it, but experience tells me that by the time I change my mind it will be too late to do anything about it so I'm probably going to suck it up and install it anyways, plus it brings more foliage into the lighting "sweet spot", so whatever bud grows there should be nice and dense.
Heh well hopefully in 20 days I dont look back at this and if momma gets unruly.
I got them at the hydro shop. They have great drainage holes in the bottom and are the perfect size IMO. Plus they are nice and thick and only cost me $2.50 a piece, so I can use them forever.
I think you will be alright as long as you have the space.
FBD- Good, that's what I figured is that I could inspire some personal closet growers to create some good harvests to keep them supplied. I stay high as fuck for free, it feels good.
Well I took clones tonight! Didn't get the scrog set up, but that will give me something to do tomorrow during the day
I think I did a pretty textbook job on them, although they may seem small, they were nice 6 inch stems before I cut them down, nice soft stems but they weren't the runt branches so they should have a decent amount of hormones in them. This is the 2nd time I've cloned so hopefully I get 100% survival rate. I took 2 from the Hindu/Master Kush and 1 from each of the other moms. Since they are f1's, I might be able to find a unique cross out of the 4, which I already have my eye on one for a permanent mom. I need to get some MANEATER so I can get another mom going. I'm going to use clones for grows from here on out if this goes well.
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Quote: Magash said: Looking good. I like the way you did the lst. Looks like you gave my genetics a good home.
Always watching
Thank you Magash, your opinion is always important to me.
I am so appreciative for these seeds. Even though they weren't your main line and were only f1's, I am already in love with them. I've never bought seeds from a seed bank but I would have to assume these are at least the same, but probably higher in quality then what I would buy.
The thing is they have just absolutely flourished from day one. There are definitely 4 different phenotypes but they all have an almost identical trunk length and thickness. 3/4 are HEAVY Indica, and the 4th (and my favorite) seems to have just a slight Sativa influence to her. She grew the most healthy, and had the most symmetrical growth out of any plant I've ever grown. Good job Mag. You are the man
Now I just need some Maneater! Wink wink, nudge nudge!
Quote: pha3r0 said: yeah those ought to do you alright. cloning isn't rocket science you just gotta make sure you have all the tools and equipment ready and follow the directions. i guess that makes it rocket science for some people though.
Oh I know it's not complicated. The first time I tried it I just plopped some super shitty runt branches into some super sopping wet and soggy soil in a cup, left em in a cupboard w/ 2 CFL's for a week and a half and one died and one rooted and showed growth right away.
I did it a lot more professional this time and used branches that weren't the worst, but not the best on the plant, so they should show some vigor. I hope. But I'm not worried. I checked on them today and I have a light warming the soil and they are all just slightly warm to the touch That makes me happy because I know keeping the medium slightly warm (~80 degrees) is important to stimulate root formation.
Quote: dsotm said: Looking awesome man. Can't wait to see some buds forming.
Thank you! I was inspired to match your results with your recent journal, even though I only have a 150w HPS. I might add the CFL's anyways, as the heat is not a problem at all w/ this FAE design. I can't believe how much they have exploded since I put them in the new Cab... I'm so glad I did it up proper for these beautiful ladies!
The first picture is the night before I switched from the non-ventilated box (3 Days Ago), and the second group is from today. I love it.
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Everything is looking nice and clean and green, it doesn't get any better. Those look like some choice genetics too so hats off to Magash. Can't wait to see these bud up, I'll be watching. Your plant on the left below really reminds me of a Double Gum pheno I had a while back. The DG (on the right) was a little further along when that pic was taken but still, they could be cousins or better haha.
Quote: dsotm said: It looks like your going to do a lot more then match my results. My plants were smaller then that when I flipped them. Although I think they have a lot of sativa traits in them. Keep up the good work. I really want to see how those turn out.
Thanks buddy, It means a lot! The 4 from Magash are all heavy Indica, just the way I like it. The 4th, the Troublemaker (Hindu x Master Kush) is a little more lanky, but the Scrog should take care of that! I snapped a couple quick shots after I trained all applicable tops, I also cleared out some of the undergrowth.
Quote: pha3r0 said: About the clones Inverted. I borrowed a reptile heating pad from a buddy for my batch. They are very thin and hit just about exactly 80degrees. not sure of the price but when i looked at seeding mats i decided it would be better, size was a factor too I didn't need a 2x4 mat to put 6 clones on
I just put it under a pie tin full of wetted perlite and set my jiffy's right on the perlite and under a clear rubbermaid tote. had my first roots in 8 or 9 days.
That sounds like a good idea. For now I'm just going to leave them be. I can feel the warmth of the medium and they are all nice and happy inside their little domes. All of them have vent holes in the top. I have a good feeling about them.
Here's after training. I hope this is worth it, because they seemed just fine the way they were, but I think it will keep everything really controlled. They don't look the best but I'm sure after a few days things will need to be adjusted again.
I'm pretty happy with the results though, it pulled everything into the sweet spot of the HPS.
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
You said it man, it's already pretty damn full, another week of heavy stretch and it'll be full, and whatever doesn't make it up to the screen will be trimmed away.
They are growing absolutely perfectly so far. I'm just anxious to see some buds form. I know it will be at least 3 weeks until I see anything significant but I know it will fly by.
I love how the screen keeps everything perfectly even. I'll let the outside perimeter grow up a little so it will absorb more of the light. I had to do some more weaving today, and I actually had fun adjusting everything.
I think it looks pretty good. Another week and it will be sexier.
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
Why thank you Farmer Joe! Yes I took 6 clones, as I think I already found at least 2 phenos that I am in love with.
I am also in the process of breeding with this run. I'm going to Choose at least 2-3 of the plants for some selective breeding. The male I used was the fastest, most vigorous seedling, and also seemed to be the most indica of the pack. I chose him over a few other males. He was a definite winner, I can't wait to see what I can find in these genes. I'm so happy. I'm barely even devoting ANY space to breeding, because I don't even need that much. I will do more precise selections after the outdoor crop, because I'm going to need a larger pool to find that one keeper.
Anyone want a bump?
Collected and frozen 1 hour ago. I will apply it in 2 weeks (3.5w flowering). I'm excited to see what is produced, both seed wise and phenos from this pack, since they were f1's. Woot woot
-------------------- Don't criticize what you can't understand
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I can make 4 sided reflectors to be installed onto any CFL's I use for supplemental lighting, which I feel is a must for optimizing my space. This 150 doesn't spread out the light very well, especially when you keep it 5" from the canopy like me.
if momma gets unruly.
