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 Jeff Funk
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 546
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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 Question about using vinegar to lower ph? 
#308724 - 11/02/09 11:10 PM (15 years, 6 days ago) |
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The water coming out of my tap is around 6.7 or 7.0. I usually adjust my ph to about 5.8. My question is when using vinegar is it normal for ph to jump back up during a 24hr period? Because everyday I find myself bringing the ph back down.
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@Str8dankgenetics
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81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,182
Loc: State of Mind 
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Jeff Funk]
#308737 - 11/02/09 11:21 PM (15 years, 6 days ago) |
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pH drift is a good thing as long as it stays in optimal ranges (6.2-6.9 or so). I don't recommend vinegar since the salt it breaks down to is harmful in the long term.
Organic lemon juice is very effective, but you'll still see that up and down drift.
The reason that's good is that the plant takes up different nutrients best at varying pH levels, so with that drift, you'll optimize nute uptake.
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"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
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 Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: 81renaissance]
#308803 - 11/03/09 12:41 AM (15 years, 6 days ago) |
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Well not really. You'll optimize uptake of certain nutes but starve the plant of others at the same time while taking the chance of locking out nutrients all together. Best to find a way to keep the ph steady.
Yeah vinagar and lemon juice work but by no means does the plant like either of those. At 20 dollars a gallon for ph up or down why take the chance on shocking the roots.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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Jeff Funk
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 546
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Magash]
#308866 - 11/03/09 05:23 AM (15 years, 6 days ago) |
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So I take it by using vinegar my final harvest will suffer?
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@Str8dankgenetics
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Jeff Funk]
#308912 - 11/03/09 08:24 AM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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Well if you have nothing else to use then use it but if your doing it to save a few bucks then it's not worth it,
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,182
Loc: State of Mind
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Magash]
#308964 - 11/03/09 10:07 AM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Well not really. You'll optimize uptake of certain nutes but starve the plant of others at the same time while taking the chance of locking out nutrients all together. Best to find a way to keep the ph steady.
The complete drift occurs in a matter of a couple or three days, and since there is a (relatively) broad pH range over which specific nutes are accessible to the plant, there really is no danger of nute lockout unless you get outside the acceptable parameters I mentioned above.
The drift doesn't single out individual nutrients, rather it makes all of the nutrients more available as the grow progresses.
The concept that a drift between 6.2 and 6.8 will starve the plant of some nutes is faulty logic.
--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: 81renaissance]
#309070 - 11/03/09 12:38 PM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
The concept that a drift between 6.2 and 6.8 will starve the plant of some nutes is faulty logic
Yeah that's all swell and dandy but your not gonna have a drift of just .6 with vinegar or lemon juice. Your not gonna maintain that drift without adding ph up or down. Next the drift is gonna have to stay at certain points for longer periods of time then at other points due to the fact that the plant uses nutrients at different speeds and amounts. In other words and not to be a smart ass but if ya think that a drifting ph is better then one that keeps all the nutrients at all times good luck with that.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,182
Loc: State of Mind
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Magash]
#309071 - 11/03/09 12:41 PM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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 I pH adjust my water with lemon prior to waterings, but I also have my soil dialed in, so I know exactly how its going to behave...
I conveniently ignore how damn long it took to get to that point.
Also, I use organic soil (don't say anything Magash, I know you think its a waste of time) which is very good for buffering my soil pH.
--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: 81renaissance]
#309077 - 11/03/09 12:51 PM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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No I don't think organics is a waste of time depending on why. Now if ya think your gonna have better taste and such I've more then proven that wrong with 4 large groups of people (that think there all master smokers). Now the better for the earth thing has it's merrits and if people use bat guano (highly recamend this for beginners) there is a very low chance of hurting the plants with over feeding. I did the organic soil and hydro thing for a lot of years and by no means am against it.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,182
Loc: State of Mind
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Magash]
#309101 - 11/03/09 01:17 PM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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Thanks for clarifying Mag.
From the threads I've seen, I thought you were totally anti.
I will say that IMO soil grows (organic or synthetic) that are properly flushed taste better than properly flushed hydro grows.
I think I read something about broader terpene production from plants in soil but I can't be sure.
I'll try to find a link.
--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
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DankHeadz
Stranger
Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 6
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Jeff Funk]
#309174 - 11/03/09 02:25 PM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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I like to use organic rice vinegar.It keeps the ph of my water lower for longer than using ph down. I don't think the ph drifting is bad but consistency is key for all elements of growing! Keep Growing My Cannabis Compadres!
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Jeff Funk
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 546
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: DankHeadz]
#309537 - 11/03/09 10:51 PM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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Saving a few bucks isn't a big deal. I found with this hobby you most of the time just short change yourself when you take the cheap route. I picked up a gallon of ph down today and adjusted all my reservoirs to about 5.8. Hopefully tomorrow when I do my readings ph will stay about the same. Also I Just started flushing 14 beauties, and added another 1000 watt light to my flower room so I'm looking forward to monitoring growth over the next couple weeks.
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@Str8dankgenetics
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81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,182
Loc: State of Mind
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Jeff Funk]
#309545 - 11/03/09 11:01 PM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Jeff Funk said:
Saving a few bucks isn't a big deal. I found with this hobby you most of the time just short change yourself when you take the cheap route.
I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've seen this (very true) statement actually posted by somebody asking a question.
Good job for recognizing that fact.
--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: 81renaissance]
#309577 - 11/04/09 12:32 AM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
I will say that IMO soil grows (organic or synthetic) that are properly flushed taste better than properly flushed hydro grows.
I think I read something about broader terpene production from plants in soil but I can't be sure.
I heard that too but the only resutls on testing I've been able to find show the terpene production higher in hydro plants which makes sence to me do to the control over the nutrients weather using chems or organics.
Then I did this test that blew all that organic taste better crap right out of the water. Here is a copy of the post I did the day after the test was done.
Ok, I have been growing since the mid 80’s and the entire time I’ve heard how organic bud is better tasting and such. I always felt that this was true just cause when you listen to why it is suppose to be better then buds grown with synthetics or chemical nutrients it seems to make sense. Then I saw this show called bullshit with Penn and Teller and the subject was organic food. I saw the test that they did and I just had to do em with buds.
Well the test was done at 3 different clubs and with a group of growers in Mendocino County. The strain used was Granddaddy Purple.
People were allowed to try free samples of organic grown and buds grown with General Hydroponics nutrients. Flora Nova and Kool Blooms.
Now the samples
2 plates of buds with labels showing but the buds switched. Organic buds in the hydro plate and hydro buds in the organic plate. 2 plates with no labels and the buds were in the right plate. Then for fun (he he he ) two sets of plates one with organic buds in both plates and one with hydro buds in both plates.
The results.
Buds in the right plate but no labels showing 73% of people picked the hydro buds as better tasting and smoking buds.
Buds in the plates with the labels showing but with the buds switched 87% picked the organic side with the hydro buds in the plate. (Even so far as going and saying they can taste the soil then getting very pissed when shown the bud they picked)
Then the same buds divided into two and put into labeled plates. So what I mean here is buds from the same plant put into two plates with different labels to see if anybody would notice. In both sets of plates 87% of people again picked the Organic as better tasting in both sets even though it was the same bud divided into two plates. I heard comments on how the organic tasted “earthy cleaner, less salty, and one who insisted that the organic buds burnt better then got pissed when told he picked hydro in every instance.
Both sets of buds were flushed for one week before harvesting.
Conclusion is that properly grown hydro buds seems to be as good in every way as organic buds.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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Jeff Funk
Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 546
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Magash]
#309584 - 11/04/09 12:49 AM (15 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Both sets of buds were flushed for one week before harvesting.
Do you flush all of your plants for just one week?
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@Str8dankgenetics
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81renaissance
Coachella '13 KKOTY
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,182
Loc: State of Mind
Last seen: 8 months, 18 days
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: Jeff Funk]
#309651 - 11/04/09 08:18 AM (15 years, 4 days ago) |
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I read that post when you originally posted it Magash, so when you reference your organic buds, you're saying those were grown in soil?
Or were those organic hydro?
--------------------
"So it goes."
-Kurt Vonnegut
BlueBerry_Swisher said:I want French fries. No, I want a penis French. Thank you. I'm so excited. I can not contain myself. Now I eat chocolate. It is so good. I'm trying to rub it all over myself. And then lick. Now I need a hot shower. The end.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Question about using vinegar to lower ph? [Re: 81renaissance]
#309726 - 11/04/09 11:44 AM (15 years, 4 days ago) |
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Both. I did organic soil for years and did organic hydro for about two years. I was doing it up to the point of the test. 
Quote:
Do you flush all of your plants for just one week?
Yeah I haven't found a difference between the ones flushed for 3 weeks and the ones flushed for one. Esp with the hydro. With soil if I don't run a flush out of the soil before starting plain water with it then I'll do the plain water thing for a longer period of time.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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