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 sen
Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 8
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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 Experimental Grow Idea 
#117109 - 09/02/08 12:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was reading this post here about cultivating a complete harvest utilizing 16 Oz plastic beverage cups as the sole pots for the entire grow. In the post they were starting from seed, which poses it's own problems.
I was wondering if I could avoid these issues by taking clones from a mother plant which has been reverted to veg after some time in the flowering phase. Clones from this mother would carry the age of the plant and will be able to flower after rooting right?
The aim of this experiment is to flower plants that are 10 to 15 inches (optimistic) in overall height under 6 40w fluorescent tubes. 3 GE Plant & Aquarium and 3 GE Daylight for a full spectrum effect.
Does anybody think this would yield anything? I'd like to here some feedback, as I was thinking this could be a nice stealthy way to do something as it could easily be disguised in a Cabinet/Countertop setup with minimal effort.
So I'm asking for your thoughts, Press on in the name of Ganja or Just use the lights for new Veg space?
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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 Re: Experimental Grow Idea (moved) [Re: sen]
#117179 - 09/02/08 03:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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 This thread was moved from Grow Journals.
Reason:
More appropriate for the main cultivation forum, as Grow Journals is for documenting existing grows.
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Chapter 4
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 152
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea (moved) [Re: Sirius]
#117191 - 09/02/08 07:06 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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what colour temperature are they? and how many lumens? the 4 footers that i buy here are pretty high lumens and would work ok i think. but it is best to have blue end and red end lighting, not "full spectrum".
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sen
Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 8
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea (moved) [Re: Chapter 4]
#117204 - 09/02/08 10:49 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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The color temp for the lights are.. let me find it..
GE Daylight T-12: 6500K, 3050 initial lumens per bulb,
&
GE Plant & Aquarium T-12: 3100K, 1900 initial lumens per bulb.
Info was obtained from GE site, here.
After looking at the lumen output on the Plant & Aquarium lights I'm wondering if I should find something a little more powerful to give me the 3100K range color temp.
I found these GE Warm White Watt-Miser T-12 which give 3000k at 2700 lumens or just GE Watt-Miser T-12 which gives 3500k and 2750 lumens. Should I buy these for the extra 800 lumens per bulb?
And just so noone just advises "Use HIDs", the whole experiment is to grow buds while avoiding the use of MH or HPS HIDs.
Before HIDs were really popular, stealth growers used to grow indoor buds under fluorescent tubes. Since HIDs have become so cheap and popular a lot of information regarding this kind of growing has disappeared. Some practices still used today which were actually developed to better take advantage of flowering under fluorescent are, can you guess? SEA OF GREEN AND SCREEN OF GREEN METHODS!
Anyway, any more thoughts?
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Edited by sen (09/02/08 03:43 PM)
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: sen]
#296973 - 10/14/09 07:22 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am using almost identical setup, with 6 T-12 Floro daylight tubes, 6500K color 40watt for veg then switching to 6 T-12 Floro Indoor Plant tubes, 2700K color and still 40 watt, 1600 Lumens on them for flowering. They are 4 foot long tubes and placing all 6 side by side horizontal and keeping them as close to the plants with adjustable chains while growing until I start to SCROG or LST them in order to flower them with a serious amount of foilage/buds close to the lights.
The big difference than most...I am using starter seeds and automatic plants...double experiment I guess.
The Lumens is over 8K total spread over an area that measures 18" X 48".
As this thread is over a year old I think...how did this method work out for you?
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009 
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
Edited by Azyle00 (10/14/09 07:23 AM)
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 God
Yahweh
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: Azyle00]
#297118 - 10/14/09 02:42 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
As this thread is over a year old I think...how did this method work out for you?
sen was "Last seen: 1 year, 10 days" ago.
That said, it should work fine, but your cab could use a little more light. If you can fit it and afford it, maybe consider it. Many growers recommend 2000 lumen/square foot, some suggest more. Either way, that baseline puts your 6 square foot cab at around 12,000 lumen. Your plants'll grow alright as is, but they'll stretch a bit, and the buds will be fluffier/airier than with more light.
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: God]
#297142 - 10/14/09 03:01 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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To update this then:
Veg lights: 6X T12, 2325 Lumens, 40 Watts, 6500K = 13950 Lumens total
Flowering lights: 6X T12, 1600 Lumens, 40 Watts, 2700K = 9600 Lumens total
So I would think for Veg, I am hitting 2000Lumens per square foot.
Also, I am able to adjust the chains to keep the plants growing as close as acceptable to the lights.
Now this is just a kitchen experiment, using automatic plants etc. I have a proper closet with 400 watt HPS etc for doing regular crops. I also use this flo experiment to start plants, breed, clone, whatever else etc.
Further, with this setup, how important is it to "enclose" it? I am using gorilla rack/shelving and it is not enclosed tight with a "cab" at all, just a dull white wall behind it, open three sides...
What should I do? Enclose 3 sides with reflective material? Is it even necessary with flo lights since anything past 8 inches would really never get any light, making reflecting useless? I understand also, we "enclose" or cab up our grows to hide them, control the smell etc...what if I dont care about the smell and do not need to hide them?
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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God
Yahweh
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: Azyle00]
#297157 - 10/14/09 03:26 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're better off on the light front than I understood. I think it's better to have more light in flower than in veg (basing that on the fact that plants can triple in size during flower, and any stretching=bad for some space-impaired growers, + the whole bud production), but I think you'll be fine, and I'm always up for an experiment, so let's see how it goes.
On the open cab: I've thought about this, and you bring up a good point that I hadn't considered regarding the penetration of flouros. With an open cab, you don't need any more ventilation than an oscillating fan three feet away, so if you have no security concerns, by all means, we'd love to hear how that turns out. My only worry is that the dark cycle may be interrupted by all the lights that the average house contains at night (LED displays, appliance "On" lights, midnight snack trips, etc.). This wouldn't be a concern with autoflowers, but for any ladies that need 12/12, that may not cut it.
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: God]
#297188 - 10/14/09 04:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes for 12/12 I would have a grow room with total darkness. But with the autos, it is midnight until 6am and my kitchen is very dark as well during that time.
What about technique along the way? Given that I went from seed with the auto plants, would LST work at all, someone said no already in another thread. I do not fully see why, unless it is the short veg period, so not enough time to get it happening. Also, LST would allow me to remove the males easy enough when the time came, perhaps isolate a plant for breeding seeds and next run try a full SOG on them, plant 4X plants per square foot.
Most people are trying to remove heat and humidity by venting, so this way, there is less need of course, in fact, adding humidity in the winter months is important. My house is at 76 degrees all winter but 78 in the kitchen because of how I have set it up.
Maybe long term for this project, simply SOG the autos from the seeds I produce first trip around and go 32 plants from seed to bud as it likes with a 20 hour on, 4 hour off cycle.
The actual smell of the weed might be an issue as it grows, not for detection...but just to bother me and it might get into the overall odor of the house. Considering "sealing" the kitchen and carbon scrubbing somehow...I have a air purifier...thinking to hack it into a stand along carbon scrubber and just sit it in the room.
Experiments are fun. Just want to figure out how to maximize the auto flowering strains in an indoor setting and add a second grow project to the existing regular *boring* one...love the smoke though.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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God
Yahweh
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: Azyle00]
#297226 - 10/14/09 06:00 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't see why LST wouldn't work. A scrog might be difficult from seed, but only because when working with clones you have even growth between organisms, but from seed there'll be a variety of phenotypes.
And good point with humidity, it might get difficult to maintain good levels without adding moisture somehow. How would you add it? A loose tarp over the top and a side or two with a little humidifier running in there might work.
As for smell, that might be an endeavor, but I bet just running a carbon scrubber above/next to the grow (or maybe in front of or inside of your house's air intake?) would limit the smell significantly.
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: God]
#297233 - 10/14/09 06:09 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I run a decent humidifier in my kitchen 24/7. I am not measuring humidity yet however, so not sure if this will achieve the effect I want. The humidifier is very close to the grow and actually helps with air circulation.
The kitchen out vent, the one above the stove is about 4 feet away. I imagine I can utilize it further if needed.
Also, if I cannot maintain the humidity that way, Insta-Ocean Sea Salt in water, left open to evaporate will raise the humidity. I have seen the effect sea water evaporating has for creating faster humidity in local areas because of my experience owning hermit crabs. Stuff is cheap and easy to mix a bunch up once a week and sit near the plants.
Might have to close off the kitchen to really get what I want though...or bite the bullet and cab it up anyhow.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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God
Yahweh
Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 434
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: Azyle00]
#297478 - 10/15/09 12:45 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Cool, keep us updated, this is interesting stuff.
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: God]
#297878 - 10/15/09 05:54 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am adding second shelf to it now. I have two thoughts/questions now.
First, from seedling until a sprout with first leaf appearing, do you think it would be necessary to have the full light power per square foot we discussed, or at that smaller size, would simply 1 rack with 2 of the T-12s in it, and all the plants in their starter pots are lines up directly underneat that rack, 8 in a row with a 6" X 6" light space above. This means that in a sense they are bathing in 2325 Lumens X 2 = 4625 divide by 8 is about 575 Lumens if I understand it correctly. I guess I answered it myself thinking it over though, Even with the full rack of lights, the plants still at a specific area only get X coverage of Lumens.
Second, have you heard anything about using flowering lights for the seedlings, but switching to 6500K daylights once they sprout and have some leaf showing? I started them on flowering lights and noticed they seemed to spring up faster and hardier than I expected. I had planted 10 seeds, got 7 up 24 hours later. Then I had switched to daylights 6500K because I actually went and bought the new tubes. The next sprout came a day later and it is half the size of the others "out of the gate" and overall, shorter and slower development imho. Did the lower color or Lumens of the flowering lamps cause their sprouting to be different.
I have 10 more seeds, I am thinking to try half on flowering lamps from seed and half on daylight and compare results.
I have changed my plans for the "Auto Flowering" kitchen garden. Now I will have 3 levels, 1 for sprouting seeds en-masse, one for vegetation stage and 1 for flowering. Will have two levels of daylight as described above and 1 level of flowering light. So a total of 18 40 watt T-12s running 18/6.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: Azyle00]
#299575 - 10/18/09 10:24 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Update:
Might have some issues here. Yellow spots appearing on plants after 1 week of growing under conditions described above. Posting pics and also pics of the initial setup:
Also, getting some "green" moss/mold growth on the top of the soil. Should I be worried about this? I plan to transplant in a week into a proper soil recipe though. You can see the slight greening on the soil in the pics as well.
I have read over the posts about "what is wrong with my plants" and I conclude we either have too much nutes from the jiffy pot seedling mix I used to create they initial potting soil (wont do that again, from now on I make my own using recipes posted here) or a PH imbalance...planning to test the PH tomorrow.
UPDATE: The Jiffy Pots were merely Sphagum Peat Moss only. So no Nutes included.
Note...other than the initial watering they got when planted, I have never watered them. I do not believe they need water yet, the soil still seems slightly moist to me, using dipstick testing also shows me moisture in the planting medium. Also, I do not believe it is any kind of burning from the flo lights, they are far enough away from them...I think.
Any ideas? I plan to do nothing different this week other than watch them and see how the yellow dots progress or go away.
Can fruit flys cause this damage? I have had some fruit flies nearby on a bamboo plant I have killed recently. But I doubt they all would get these spots so quickly, every plant so evenly from flies.
Any advice is appreciated.
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
Edited by Azyle00 (10/18/09 04:15 PM)
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Azyle00
Captain Canada
Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 240
Loc: CANADA
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Experimental Grow Idea [Re: Azyle00]
#300242 - 10/19/09 01:36 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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After an evening of further research I came to the conclusion, whether right or wrong, that the most likely cause of this issue was the planting medium being 100% S.Peat, without and Perlite etc, Nutes and so on. I decided to transplant today instead of waiting another week as I was concerned that I had a huge issue with improper soil and nutes.
The soil mixture I am now using is 35% Perlite, 60% Sphagnum Peat, and all the needed things like Dolomite Lime, Castings, Bone meal etc, measured to the proper ratios that are listed all over the site. I did not overdo it however as the plants are young.
When I transplanted them, the plants that were having issues all seemed to have long roots to the bottom of the container, coming out of the holes in some. I can tell they were aggressively searching for food. They can't have been searching for water as the peat was still quite damp. I can see how my issues developed now, by seeing the roots. I am amazed they can develop roots that big in a weeks time. A very good learning experience. Unfortunately, I was not willing to break away much of the existing peat soil when replanting as I feared damaging roots, so simply replanted the peat into the new soil. I feel this will be fine however.
I plan to use Fish Emulsion 5-1-1 for feeding from now on during vegetative stage only. The soil is moist, but not too wet at all and I will carefully monitor the soil and not water until it is dry again. I have proper drainage with the containers and Perlite mixture.
The lights sit 2" away from the plants right now. Might lower them to 1 inch though.
Here are the pics of the new setup/soil/plants:
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"I never post unless high. Well that does explain a lot then."
"The best part about going to sleep each night is knowing that my plants will have grown more when I wake up in the morning."
"I smoked it then I became so tired that my eyes shut down automatically without my consent" - My Chinese GF, Oct 23, 2009
Starting your first GROW, things you should ask/answer before you do
Current Grow Journal
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