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 jellyfish
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 67
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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 250 watts 
#107088 - 08/10/08 11:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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My friend emptied a closet in his basement last year for a grow but the 400 watt hps light he bought was way too hot, even with 3 exhaust fans, due to the size of the room (and it was winter too). So he took it back and got a 250 watt. He's done one grow with the 250, a single bagseed he got out of some crappy herb, and without using ferts or anything but water, he obtained a half ounce from the plant which turned out to be of considerable quality. He's discouraged though, as he smoked the half ounce in like a week and now doesn't know if it's worth it to even start a new grow. Would you guys bother trying to grow your own with a 250 watter or would you just wait until you could have a better set up. If he grows again he's going to use nutes and have more then one plant of known genetics but he doesn't know how much farther that can take him. Do you think it'll ever be possible for him to achieve 1 gram/watt?
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Agent 47
John
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 92
Loc: Holland
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: 250 watts [Re: jellyfish]
#107242 - 08/10/08 04:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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hmm...you could go to lowes or homedepot and get some CFL's compact fluorescents ... you can get big ones here http://www.1000bulbs.com/2-to-200-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent-Screw-In-Light-Bulbs/
if you scroll down to the bottom one it's 200 watts ... i mean you don't need a big one if you have a bunch of like..say 40 watts... you could get cheap mounts from your local hardware store and screw them into the walls..or lie a piece of plywood against the way and screw them into that...i'd recommend one 200watt in the 2700K region and some 40 watts at a 3/1 ratio of bulbs around 6500k to bulbs around 2700k...
if your concerned with small size and head build up..just get a generic fan for circulation and that should be a significant upgrade you can also get the lights wayyyy closer which increases lumen intake
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Agent Outdoor 2010
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 250 watts [Re: jellyfish]
#107281 - 08/10/08 05:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jellyfish said:
My friend emptied a closet in his basement last year for a grow but the 400 watt hps light he bought was way too hot, even with 3 exhaust fans, due to the size of the room (and it was winter too).
It isn't really a matter of the HPS being too hot for the space, but really how one is able to control the ambient temperatures. Of course, I guess that just could depend on exactly how small of a space we're talking about... what are the dimensions of the room? Anyways, exhaust fans will only go so far, and there usually has to be a way of conditioning the air to a lower temperature. Some people, for instance, will fit a 1000 watt HPS in a 3x3 space. 
Quote:
So he took it back and got a 250 watt. He's done one grow with the 250, a single bagseed he got out of some crappy herb, and without using ferts or anything but water, he obtained a half ounce from the plant which turned out to be of considerable quality. He's discouraged though, as he smoked the half ounce in like a week and now doesn't know if it's worth it to even start a new grow. Would you guys bother trying to grow your own with a 250 watter or would you just wait until you could have a better set up. Do you think it'll ever be possible for him to achieve 1 gram/watt?
There is definitely a lot you could do to maximize the amount of buds you get from your 250 watt HPS, not to mention being able to harvest more frequently. Training your plants to more effectively fill in the space with just buds is a great idea, and setting up a screen of green underneath it could really get you achieving a gram per watt. Another idea, possibly the one I'd lean towards in your situation, would be to set up a perpetual sea of green. You'd need to set up a small area, maybe even just the size of a computer tower if stealth is a real concern, with some CFL's (of the right lumens and color temperature, of course  ), in order to keep a mother plant, from which you'd take clones from. Then, you'd take some clones and put them underneath the HPS as soon as they root, or perhaps even keeping them underneath the CFL's for a week or so to get bigger, and then introduce new clones into the flowering room every week or two. The point of this is to grow more, smaller plants, because it will take less time for more smaller plants to fill the same space that keeping fewer plants in the vegetative state longer would achieve. Then, you'd be harvesting a few clones every week or two, keep introducing more clones as you harvest, and I'm sure you'd be capable of producing enough great bud frequently enough that you wouldn't run out. 
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: 250 watts [Re: Agent 47]
#107287 - 08/10/08 05:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Agent 47 said:
i mean you don't need a big one if you have a bunch of like..say 40 watts...
To a small extent, this can be the case, but the important thing to realize is that adding more bulbs of the same wattage will only improve the light distribution across the plants, but won't increase the intensity of the light being produced. When it comes to fluorescents and CFL's, the real disadvantage is that the light they produce doesn't penetrate very far from the distance of the lamp. This basically means you'll form some really nice buds on top, a few inches tall perhaps, and then you'll have a long lollipop stick. Increasing the wattage of the lamps you are working with can help counter this.
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jellyfish
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 67
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: 250 watts [Re: Sirius]
#107380 - 08/10/08 07:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I left out the fact that he has a very small cupboard with a single fluroscent in it that has been succesful in getting a clone to root and keeping it vegging for the 2 months of flowering in the other room so perpetual harvest wouldn't be too far off if it wasn't for the fact that he only runs the hps in the winter due to heat. His grow room is next to his furnace room which is probably part of the problem but the furnace doesn't do too much in the summer which is when the heat problems occur so I dunno. I'll ask him about the dimensions right now I'd guess about a metre long and half a metre wide but I'll ask him for exact imperial measurements (I only know metric). He's thought about doing a scrog and lst but only wants to pursue such things if he thinks it'll be worth it. Considering some people do compact flouro grows, my friend should find something that suits his needs.
edit: he told me the room is 4.3 ft by 2.3 ft with a ceiling of 6.3 ft
Edited by jellyfish (08/11/08 01:41 AM)
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DJYoshaBYD
Grand-High Pooba Joo
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 48
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: 250 watts [Re: jellyfish]
#107985 - 08/11/08 05:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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you should have enclosed hoods with exhaust fans pumping air in one side and feeding it out of the house.. like outside.. you may be loosing alot of air velocity if you just have fans on the bulbs..
although, the last time I had my lights set up, I had a plant leaning against the bulb of 1 of my 400w hps lights, and it was cool enough to not burn the plant.. these were open hoods with fans blowing on the bulb, during the winter, so I dont know why you would have had such an issue..
do you have an A/C down there to control the ambient temps? they are only about 100 bucks for one that will take care of that room..
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Joo Crop '08 - White Witch, White Widow, Some random bagseed
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jellyfish
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 67
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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No air conditioner, and the fans don't blow directly on the light they blow through the plants. It would be awkward to have them blowing on the lights and still be drawing air from the neighboring room.
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Eleutherios
Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 76
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: 250 watts [Re: jellyfish]
#108203 - 08/12/08 11:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You mentioned that your friend didn't use any fertilizer. I would think that would be a worthwhile investment as well. Light is only one part of the equation.
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 coda
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,736
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Quote:
No air conditioner, and the fans don't blow directly on the light they blow through the plants. It would be awkward to have them blowing on the lights and still be drawing air from the neighboring room.
your friend needs to buy a cooltube or an air cooled reflector to cool his room. Moving air around in the room isn't going to do jack, you need to extract the hot air with an exhaust fan and move it into a different area to do anything worthwhile.
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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.
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DJYoshaBYD
Grand-High Pooba Joo
Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 48
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: 250 watts [Re: coda]
#108268 - 08/12/08 12:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you dont have at least one fan blowing on the light bulb, the heat will stay right there.. you need to vent your hot air out..
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Joo Crop '08 - White Witch, White Widow, Some random bagseed
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jellyfish
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 67
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Well my friend is putting a carbon filter in the wall so they'll be one large filter fan blowing air out and two smaller fans blowing air in. He's considering bubble buckets or coir cause his place is small and he can't find any potting soil that doesn't have miracle grow time release bullshit beads. He also doesn't have a soil probe, only a pH tester for liquid so he's not sure what to do cause he's afraid that by using ferts he'll lower the pH and won't be able to fix it.
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coda
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,736
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Re: 250 watts [Re: jellyfish]
#112710 - 08/22/08 12:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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soil probes suck, you can use a liquid tester on soil in a variety of ways. One is to use the run off water, just water your plants and collect some of the water that comes out then test it. Or, you can take equal parts soil and water (distilled or reverse osmosis is best for this) dilute the soil in the water and then test.
However, most soils like fox farm are PH buffered to be at a certain level. So by testing your water with the nutrients before you add them to the soil you can be pretty certain the PH will stay where you want it to be.
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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.
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jellyfish
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 67
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: 250 watts [Re: coda]
#113821 - 08/24/08 01:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah I never understood that. If you're diluting the soil in distilled water won't you read a pH that is less acidic then the actual soil because it's diluted?
edit: I don't want to start a new thread for one question so I'm just gonna throw this in here, what's a good ratio of stuff to make soil with. My friend cannot find potting soil that is sterilized and lacks miracle grow time release stuff so he's going to mix his own soil. Someone at a store told him to add diameters earth to his soil and then it won't need sterilization but he doesn't know anything about it. He's got garden soil, spanish moss, peat moss, perlite and vermiculite is there any simple blend of those he can mix up (he's planning on using hydro ferts with the water). He has a plant that's rootbound and he's afraid to transplant because the soil hasn't been treated for insects nor is it even potting soil.
Edited by jellyfish (08/24/08 02:36 PM)
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coda
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,736
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Re: 250 watts [Re: jellyfish]
#114291 - 08/25/08 04:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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no, simply because distilled or RO water is PH neutral. I shouldn't have used the word dilute, dissolve is a much better choice. I can see how that would be confusing.
Anyways, the dissolved soil will raise the water's PH to whatever level the soil was at. This is why you need equal parts water to soil, this prevents dilution and gives you an accurate reading.
Anyways, most out of the bag soil is PH buffered for you anyways so there is very little to worry about. If you're buying pre packaged soil you need to worry about the PH of your water and the PH of the final nutrient solution which you feed to your plants. If you feed your plants a constant supply of water at a certain PH there's nothing to worry about.
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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.
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Yrat
Happy Planting
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 886
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: 250 watts [Re: jellyfish]
#114322 - 08/25/08 05:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jellyfish said:
diameters earth
you mean diatomaceous earth
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 "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root"
~ Henry D. Thoreau
Strike The Root
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jellyfish
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 67
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: 250 watts [Re: Yrat]
#115828 - 08/29/08 12:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Damn spellcheck.
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