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 Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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 Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed  [Re: Yrat]
#93112 - 07/25/08 01:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
so will you be growing the females to the finish? any plans to do some cloning?
Yes on both questions.  The plants that turn out to be females will be flowered, and we'll definitely be making attempts to clone every female before they flower. The clones of the most desirable phenotypes will become mothers, and we'll be flowering out clones after that as well. As soon as the fluorescents are clear, we'll attempt to germinate the last five Matanuska Tundra seeds, and I'm thinking we'll try to germinate the Original Thai Haze x Skunk #1 as well. They are supposed to be older seed stock already, and since they don't require a lot of light and have a long flowering time, we'll just put them on the edges of the grow and let them do their thing. We'll get our hands into breeding as well; find some great crosses, possibly gift them to interested Growery members?  We're only growing for personal consumption, but we're fascinated by growing, all the different strains, breeding, etc., and just want to have fun experimenting with everything.
Thanks for checking in blueberryd, it certainly would be disappointing to lose out on the Matanuska Tundra, because, as Inverted was mentioning, they are supposed to be one hell of a unique strain - very potent, creeper high, dense buds, chocolate aroma, pistils that stay white.... Losing out on $160 while having a lot of success with a $30 strain and some freebies would kind of sting too... 
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#95824 - 07/28/08 10:52 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Update 7/27 
Tonight the plants were watered. The water was adjusted to 5.8, and they were given a half-strength dosage, up from a quarter last time. The plants had a few days for their roots to grow out from the rock-wool cube and into the coco, and the ladies themselves have shown signs of growth meanwhile. The problems with deficiency haven't really gotten worse, and they were probably stemming from problems with the rock-wool cubes. Next time we germinate, we'll be planting the seeds straight into the coco. It should be a better environment for germination, as well as making it easier to manage pH and watering. A lot of the ladies have begun showing their fourth set of leaves, and tiny stipules are showing on the two Arjan's Haze #3. Adding the half dosage of nutrients, with some magnesium and calcium (also coming with other trace elements), now that the roots should be exploring the coco, should definitely knock it up a notch. 
All of the plants together have been giving off a subtle but pleasantly noticeable smell of pot plants, very refreshing!
Here's the two Arjan's Haze #3:
 
The four Critically Smashed:
 
 
And the five of Mandala's White Satin:
 
 
No pictures of the Matanuska Tundra right now, but the one is coming along all right, and the other smaller one is, well, really really small. Still alive and growing, though. Sometime soon, when the fluorescents are free from these ladies, most likely, we'll attempt to germinate the last five of the Matanuska. I have a feeling we'll have better success keeping them in coco, as opposed to the rock-wool cubes. I think the rock-wool cubes this last time through were carrying too much moisture inside of them, and although this didn't affect the other strains, since they grew very fast, the Matanuska Tundra seeds just take more time to germinate, and the same amount of water in the rock-wool affected them more adversely. Anyways, they could just be bad seeds, and the coco will tell us that for sure.
Thanks for checking! 
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 Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
 
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star 
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#96509 - 07/29/08 03:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I had a few of my "oddball" bagseeds grow like your Matanuska are, they lagged behind the rest by at least a 2 week gap it looked like.
The wierd thing is that when they were all outside and recieving much stronger light, they actually came back and are catching up quite nicely.
They are still behind but they did end up increasing their growth rates once they finally had a few sets of leaves, which seemed to take forever compared to the vigorous phenos I have. But like i've mentioned before, its all about the surface area a plant has to supply it with what it needs to grow, the more surface area the faster the plant will go exponentially.
I think yours will come along too! What light are you planning on using for the rest of the grow, just Flouros? Sorry I may have forgotten what you said earlier on that subject. Don't give up on the matanuska just yet, I think they are probably just a slow starter (at least 5 of mine expressed the same situation you described), and yes some of my seedlings needed to have soil that was almost completely dry to sustain growth, otherwise they kinda just sat around not getting any bigger until my soil dried up...then they really shot into a spurt... yet others did fine staying fairly moist at all times... odd huh?
well i'm glad to see you are doing very well and they look sexy and healthy! Don't you just love the smell of fresh herb? It's almost indescribable 
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Don't criticize what you can't understand
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Inverted]
#98951 - 07/31/08 05:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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We have a 600 watt HPS with a cool-tube. Ambient temperatures in the intended grow room are naturally just too high for the HPS to be used over there, one of the reasons why they are still underneath the fluorescents. It basically gets up around 91°F, with the possibility of it getting hotter on hotter days perhaps, and the ambient temps are being somewhere in the 80's. It just isn't feasible to get air conditioning set up there right now, but we do have a temporary location that can be air conditioned that we will probably go to in the meantime.
The other reason they are still underneath the fluorescents is because they seem to be loving the light they are giving off! Very little stretching and very healthy growth. There are little stipules on the internodes, and there is little bits of green growth in the notch between the leaf stems and the main stem itself. At first we were thinking preflowers, but it looks more like little leaves growing out. The plants are definitely growing with increasing speed, and we'll probably do an update when we water again, possibly tonight but maybe tomorrow, since the coco seems to be decently moist on the top yet.
Not giving up on the Matanuska Tundra, and hopefully germinating in coco will bring better success. There are a lot of reports about bad germination rates with Sagarmatha though, but I really think too much moisture could be the problem, even as the amount of moisture is perfectly fine for other seeds...
Thanks for replying, man!
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#98967 - 07/31/08 07:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ha, just thought I'd add that I got a response back from Sagarmatha, and they'll be replacing the seeds for us.
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#100267 - 08/01/08 10:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Update 8/01
Time for a quick update. It has been a few days and the plants were ready for some water and some feed. Temperature has remained pretty steady, around 26-27°C/78-80°F, with an exception for a few hours where the temperature climbed up to 32°C/90°F. The next day we noticed the leaves felt a little dry and what could best be described as little wrinkles in the middle of some of the top leaves. I'm assuming this would be a sign of resulting heat stress? There have been little areas on some of the leaves across the board with some discolorations and little variations in shapes of the leaves, but it is pretty insignificant and is probably due to issues with the rock-wool cubes inside the coco. This should become less and less of a problem as the roots colonize the coco and the plant finds more consistent pH and moisture levels. Definitely won't be using rock-wool again when all you need is coco.
The plants show noticeable signs of growth even throughout one day, with little leaves developing in the notches between the stems of the leaves and the main stem. They are definitely developing a beautiful, more distinct aroma, some plants more than others. We're thinking they will remain underneath the fluorescents for another week before they are introduced to the HPS.
The one Matanuska Tundra that is alive is showing some signs of the bumpy road it has been on. The other tiny little runt didn't make it, but it wasn't really growing anyways. Since the Matanuska Tundra was kind of on its own and separate from the more consuming, routine maintenance that the other eleven take, it has been neglected a little more and treated a little more rough. One day it had drooped over from becoming too dry, but sprang right back up after being watered. When it showed signs of needing nutrients some time ago and I was feeling a little too lazy to start adjusting and measuring out stuff for it, it was just given a full dosage of nutrients from a bottle intended for something else. Today it finally showed some signs that it might have been a little too much for it, so it was flushed. Its showing signs since of growth. If it makes it, it makes it, if it doesn't, it doesn't, but its kind of a lab rat for us, being subjected to harsher extremes to see how it responds so we can learn from it. Sagarmatha Seeds responded to our questions about the low germination rates we had compared to the other healthy strains, and they have graciously offered to replace them directly.
On to the pictures! First, a couple that were taken two days ago, the first of Arjan's Haze 3, phenotype #2, and the second of White Satin, phenotype #3:
The full image of the eleven ladies before they were watered tonight:
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
 
The four Critically Smashed:
 
 
The five White Satin:
 
 
Thanks for following!
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#100270 - 08/01/08 10:19 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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We were just marveling at the difference after just three full days in the size of the plants after posting this update. 
If you notice carefully, the rows are in a different order, but it is the same plants in each row. After each watering, we move each row forward underneath the fluorescents to make sure they all get equal light over time, since, obviously, the spot in the middle receives the most light.
The next two and a half months should be fun! 
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Herbalonics
Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 16
Last seen: 15 years, 17 days
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#101057 - 08/02/08 06:33 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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WOW! the improvement in those few days is remarkable! seems like you have everything under control and are doing a great job. My Arjan's Haze #3 along with my others are having some animal (deer mostly) and what we think are slug problems, and aren't blossoming to their full potential. I am going to be starting up my indoor grow soon which I'll have a few questions before starting for you after seeing your plants do so well. You say you aren't going to use the rock wool before planting into the coco anymore? did you feel that negatively affected your growth? I am interested.
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Herbalonics]
#101120 - 08/02/08 07:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry to hear about your problems with animals and possibly slugs. I found a good link on natural slug control here. No actual experience with any of that though. Pipesmoker Elf mentioned she's seen a slug react as if it were getting shocked or having epilepsy when it touched a copper wire.
Thanks for the compliments on the grow. We really tripped when we took a look at those two pictures side-by-side. Its been a full day since that last watering and they are definitely showing signs of further growth. Once their roots got into the coco and started absorbing the nutrients, they have really taken off.
Yeah, I have a general feeling that rock-wool is just crappy stuff. I'm sure any problems we've had with it our our own fault, and that its perfectly fine for others, but it just seems less advantageous than just using coco. One of our problems could have been with using larger than usual rock-wool cubes, but the real issue was just with the way it holds onto water and possibly some issues with the pH. I've been told it isn't really a good idea to go from rock-wool cubes to coco anyways. It just seems like an unnecessary step when one is going to be using coco anyways, since coco is exceptionally capable of providing a great environment for germinating.
Feel free to ask away! It doesn't really feel like we have everything under control, as we're always crossing our fingers that we won't wake up and find everything really fucked up, but everything in general seems to be going pretty well. 
Get your log updated with some pictures!  Really looking forward to seeing your AH3, especially since, despite your pest problems, it should still be looking a week or two ahead of ours.
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fantasy2reality
Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 110
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#101139 - 08/02/08 07:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Use beer to get rid of slugs... I use it in my flower gardens. I just take a plastic cup and cut it down to about 2-3 inches, pour in beer dig a hole place cup in hole, and wait a day or two.. slugs will drink and drown... or whatever kills them... it works. My grandfather taught me while gardening at a young age.
Not sure how you could use this method for yourself... but I have heard regular 20:1 diluted dish soap is a good deterrent... but dish soap will bring earthworms and other nutrient rich bugs to the surface as well.... I use this to catch worms for fishing actually...
Again, I am not sure if it will harm your plants, but I wouldn't think it would... you can foliar spray with the solution to controls bugs.
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: fantasy2reality]
#102622 - 08/04/08 06:04 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Update 8/04
Not too much new, but its been three days and the plants have been watered and fed again, so its time for some pictures. We bumped the concentration of the coco nutes up a notch and added some of the Ca and Mg as well. We're experimenting with doing some nutrient profiling of what we are working with, so later we'll have some data on that and a way of getting a better idea of how much nutrients to give them. Right now it seems like they aren't getting enough, but we're continuing to increase the dosages incrementally and let the plants tell us what they need.
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
 
The four Critically Smashed:
 
 
The five White Satin:
 
 
Going to start work on getting the HPS running finally, so hopefully the temperatures will be manageable and we'll be able to start introducing these babies to some HID light. 
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#102753 - 08/04/08 07:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do you grow in your bathtub? :o
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: captain.koons]
#102787 - 08/04/08 08:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nothing like taking a shower in a sea of pot plants. 
Nah, they just get moved there for their waterings so we don't make such a mess.
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Annom
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 316
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#103211 - 08/05/08 04:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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 Looking good!!! 
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Annom]
#106086 - 08/08/08 05:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Update 8/07
Well, a few things have been happening, and the plants were fed and watered a little while ago, so its time for an update.
A few of the top leaves had a little bit of some burnt tips after the last feeding. After taking a closer look at the formulas used, it seems that it was a Calcium deficiency, resulting from there being an imbalance in the Calcium-Magnesium ratio. There was a little bit less Ca than Mg, when its typically best to aim towards twice as much Ca as Mg. I've read that, generally, about 60ppm of Mg is optimum, and we had it at about that level, but the problem is that the bottle of Ca has some nitrogen in it as well, and it makes it more difficult to keep proper proportions between everything. An idea is to use some of the P/K booster, with less of Coco A&B, to leave more room for the N to be cranked up with the Ca. I'm tired of seeing small signs of Mg deficiency, damn it!
In the meantime, though, we just gave them 1mL/L of Coco A and B, as well as 1mL/L of Atazyme. Somehow, we completely forgot that we had it. The label says its natural, multi-enzyme stuff that should help increase nutrient absorption, enhance root activity and plant growth, stimulate micro-organism activity, and reduce chances of over-fertilizing. Hopefully it will work fine.
The 600 watt HPS is up and running, in a temporary setup, that is allowing the ambient temperatures to be controlled, so the temperatures underneath it are manageable. The cool-tube is about 16 inches above the tops of the plants, with an oscillating fan blowing across the area in between, and the temperature is staying around 29-30°C/84-86°F. Not perfect, but perfectly acceptable, and it is pretty much the temperature they have been at underneath the fluorescents. They are being slowly introduced to the HPS, increasing it a couple hours a day, to get them used to the intensity, and also to give them the continued advantage of the fluorescents' light spectrum. Here's a picture of them, underneath the HPS, after they were watered today:
Here's the signature group shot and individual shots of the plants. A few more days and I don't think it will be possible to keep going with this formula, considering how much they are growing. I'll post the three other group shots first, three days between each one, to give a perspective on how quickly they've been growing:
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
 
The four Critically Smashed:
 
 
And the five White Satin:
 
 
Thanks for checking in; great to see you back, Annom!
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BlargIAmDead
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 266
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#106274 - 08/08/08 03:27 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good grow man. Nice space. I'm having the same difficulty with temp with CFL's no less. Oh well looks like you got it all worked out. Wish you the best of grows.
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Uns4ne
King of Twisted Irony
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 343
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: BlargIAmDead]
#106303 - 08/08/08 04:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Looks yummy.
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Fighting Terrorism One Seed At A Time
Big Bang, Arjan's Haze #3 Growlog
My First Grow(Complete)Never let school get in the way of your education.-Mark Twain
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 9,953
Loc: North Star
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Uns4ne]
#106537 - 08/09/08 03:07 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Looks like you are getting everything under control! Those plants all look textbook healthy and show no signs of stretching with close internode distance... I LIKE IT! My 2 little "Gravity" babies I started a couple weeks back look like your plants, I want to see how they compare as the grow goes along, being as mine are outdoors...
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Don't criticize what you can't understand
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Sirius
Saturn Ascends
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 1,540
Loc: The Milky Way
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Inverted]
#107044 - 08/10/08 08:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Update 8/10
Thought it might be nice to make another update, this one a little more picture-orientated, as opposed to boring old typing.
We watered the plants today, after only two days, instead of three. Despite what Inverted says about them looking textbook healthy , there are slight problems with some of the leaves, but I think it could be chalked up to "still dialing in the nutes". Watering/feeding more frequently is an initial step to see if it helps the matter. I really think the problem is with Mg/Ca though, and next time I'll be prepared to do a more radical approach to the nutrients to try to cure it. 
The plants are still growing vigorously, without stretching. Running them underneath the fluorescents for this long, I think, is really making all the difference, but its definitely time to start weaning them off, and these huge fan leaves that are developing are just begging for the HPS light, and the leaves growing in the internodes for its intensity, so they are spending more and more time with it. Hopefully, in about a week, it'll be time for a transplant (the roots are starting to show up in the drainage holes and can be seen while peaking between the side of the pots and the coco) and some 12/12. We're dying to see some buds forming! 
First, here's the group shot from when they were watered:
Thought we'd try something a little different this time, and take side shots of all of the plants, back underneath the fluorescents (with them turned off, of course, to get good quality pictures ):
The two Arjan's Haze #3:
The four Critically Smashed:
The five White Satin:
Here's another shot of White Satin #3, to show how fucking huge its fan leaves are getting:
And another shot of White Satin #2, to show some of the leaves that have six leaflets:
Here's an interesting shot of Critically Smashed #1. One of the main leaves developed with its left half mostly yellow. Now, one of the smaller leaves that has developed from the internodes has the same exact thing going on, except it is on the right half. The only explanation that I can think of for this is genetic mutation.
And, the last shot, a close-up of Critically Smashed #4, the first and only plant thus far to develop alternate nodes. This became apparent almost a week ago. Very curious why the anomaly....
Thanks for checking in, kudos to those who've given some sign of life.
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BlargIAmDead
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 266
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Matanuska Tundra, Arjan's Haze #3, White Satin, and Critically Smashed [Re: Sirius]
#107048 - 08/10/08 09:36 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Those are some gorgeous and extremely bushy plants. That one leaf is awesome. I say clone it and call it (clichely) Yin-Yang Smash!
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