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 Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 18 hours, 17 minutes
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 Egypt/Ancient Civilization 
#833418 - 06/11/18 01:45 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Joe and John Anthony West.
Joe and Robert Schoch
Just added the videos in case everyone just wants to listen to some experts talking to Joe Rogan.
What do you all think about ancient cultures? I'm somewhere between civilization being way older than generally accepted, and full blow ancient aliens... I'm skeptical about just explaining things I don't understand with aliens, but sometimes it seems like humans were taught some things before they deduced them on their own... at least to me.
Archaeology seems to sometimes be an oddly dogmatic field of study from my perspective.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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 drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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I can attest to the greatness of these podcasts. Super interesting stuff.
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King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends
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Rider420
Stranger
Registered: 06/21/17
Posts: 518
Last seen: 3 months, 19 days
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: drawde]
#833420 - 06/11/18 08:53 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why is the sky blue? Is it because God made it that way or is it because the water vapor refracts only light in the blue spectrum?
Gods or Aliens are easy answers that that really don't explain anything. Because the next question is what created Gods or Aliens then you have to ask what created that creator. As a religious person once told me after I asked her what the turtle that has earth on its back stood on she said I could not fool her it was turtles all the way down. 
But I agree one hundred percent with civilization being a lot older then written history so there is a very good chance there was world wide civilizations that fell apart and were lost in time that had local knowledge about nature that in some cases my have surpassed what we know today.
Kudos for the post.
Quote:
Archaeology seems to sometimes be an oddly dogmatic field of study from my perspective.
Yup Archaeology is like putting a jigsaw puzzle together without a picture and more then half the pieces missing then trying to figure out what the full picture was, its just really just an educated guess.
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US 
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: Rider420]
#833479 - 06/17/18 01:01 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm wholly unqualified to pass general assessments on these topics, I personally found an intro to Archaeology course interesting but lacking in substance. The ability to conclusively state anything about ancient cultures is infuriatingly difficult, and a lot of it ultimately boils down to what Rider420 said, an educated guess based on a shitload of unvalidated assumptions that fill in where real evidence is lacking.
That being said, I do not feel like there is any stronger evidence that people artificially advanced (via extraterrestrial influences), quite the opposite. The lack of organized EM emissions alone lends more credence to any human-based progression model than any unexplained archaeological evidence lends to an extraterrestrial knowledge transfer theory. The fact that all evidence suggests that mass cannot be accelerated to/beyond 3e8 m/s, and that the majority of the universe is beyond the reach of light-speed travel within the short time of human existence, coupled with the lack of any evidence of extra-terrestrial intelligence effectively excludes any extra-terrestrial knowledge transfer theory from the realm of probability, in comparison with the probabilistic likelihood that all current human knowledge was reasoned out by humans at some point in our history. I'm not saying that we can disprove all of these alternative theories, but rather they require more unsubstantiated evidence and assumptions than the commonly accepted models and theories.
I also do not think (and I doubt any respectable archaeologist or historian would claim) that civilizations progressed in a uniformly distributed or linear manner, as the older fellow in the first video claims of "quackademia's" views. All fields of science are fluid, and operate on models that best explain the actual, verified data available. When new evidence is made available, it is reviewed, vetted, and incorporated into the current model (a github for scientific theories and models, if you will). If one person can advance our understanding of the laws of physics as drastically as Einstein did, then imagine how drastically different the progressions of various early civilizations must have been during a time of limited travel and information exchange (rather than multiple branches from the master branch, it would be more like branches of branches stemming from a grove of individual master branches, to keep the github analogy going  ).
My last comment pertains to the nature of the alternative arguments presented in the attached videos. I admittedly did not listen to the full 6 hours of chit-chat included, but from what I did watch/listen to, every single argument against the "status quo" scientific theories are made with either completely incorrect or unsubstantiated claims, or cite studies and experiments that have limited data or rely on assumptions that are not properly verified and/or documented. The few published articles that I could find are posted in fringe journals with bottom-of-the-barrel rankings and impact factors (which I try not to place too much emphasis on due to the inherent B.S. of journal impact factors, nevertheless it does provide some insight into what types of journals are willing to publish studies like this). Now, we could certainly explain all of this by claiming that "Quackademia" is ganging up and suppressing alternative theories about human history. However, given that the academic community consists of both egotistical dickhead AND idealistic, curious, and open-minded individuals, I suspect the more probable explanation is that the majority of the alternative theories and studies that support them are flimsy at best, and need way more "shoring up" before they are ready make a claim that they more adequately explain ALL of the relevant data available on the subject.
 , Though its great that we have smart, and curious people constantly double-checking and testing the scientific community's models periodically to make sure what we have is truly the best fit for the evidence we have. 
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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Deadkndys420
Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 8,703
Loc: █████
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: Data] 1
#833480 - 06/17/18 03:10 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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King Koopa
Natty
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 12,819
Last seen: 2 months, 16 hours
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: Data]
#833481 - 06/18/18 04:07 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Data said:
My last comment pertains to the nature of the alternative arguments presented in the attached videos. I admittedly did not listen to the full 6 hours of chit-chat included, but from what I did watch/listen to, every single argument against the "status quo" scientific theories are made with either completely incorrect or unsubstantiated claims, or cite studies and experiments that have limited data or rely on assumptions that are not properly verified and/or documented. The few published articles that I could find are posted in fringe journals with bottom-of-the-barrel rankings and impact factors (which I try not to place too much emphasis on due to the inherent B.S. of journal impact factors, nevertheless it does provide some insight into what types of journals are willing to publish studies like this). Now, we could certainly explain all of this by claiming that "Quackademia" is ganging up and suppressing alternative theories about human history. However, given that the academic community consists of both egotistical dickhead AND idealistic, curious, and open-minded individuals, I suspect the more probable explanation is that the majority of the alternative theories and studies that support them are flimsy at best, and need way more "shoring up" before they are ready make a claim that they more adequately explain ALL of the relevant data available on the subject.
Eddie Bravo would like a word with you
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Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: King Koopa] 2
#833490 - 06/19/18 07:09 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is that like Johnny Bravo's cousin or something?
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: Data]
#833492 - 06/19/18 07:44 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: drawde]
#833493 - 06/19/18 08:07 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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King Koopa
Natty
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 12,819
Last seen: 2 months, 16 hours
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: Data]
#833495 - 06/19/18 02:51 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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lmao
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Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 18 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: King Koopa]
#833517 - 06/21/18 11:08 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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From the perspective of someone trained in geology, I've never been adequately swayed from his position. Most of his opponents counter his, legitimate hypothesis, with arm waving explaining ages of pottery and written records.
For some reason we still haven't looked in the chamber under the sphinx's left paw in 20+ years of knowing its been there.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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Solar Nexus
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 243
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Isn't that how they woke The Mummy up? 
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 18 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Egypt/Ancient Civilization [Re: Solar Nexus]
#833599 - 06/28/18 11:08 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Solar Nexus said:
Isn't that how they woke The Mummy up?
I mean, as a science boi I'm all for death by undead if it means first hand observational data of such magick.
We don't advance our understandings by telling someone to stop their science because it's not culturally sensitive. I care about dat observational data, and observational data only. You don't discredit someone in science by chasing them away from their controversial opinion. You investigate the alternative hypothesis you believe is actually the case, and encourage others to do their on research on the same topic so you can rule out what is possible. Doing otherwise is just arm waving bullshit, then again that's most everything though. <3
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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