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 efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon 
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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 Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC  [Re: efarley]
#793870 - 09/19/15 12:04 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a vacation coming up next week and I needed something to smoke on it so I cut off a few of the lower branches and hung them to dry.
This pretty much confirmed what I was worried about, the buds are so tiny... I wanted to trim about 7 grams off, but I don't think I have that... looks more like 3.5 grams, but we'll see how much it shrinks while it's drying.
A nice macro shot, these buds aren't as frosty as the tops of course, but they still look pretty good!
I've decided to push my harvest back another week as it looks like the buds might be putting on a little bit of weight this week. I'll be out of town and won't be able to check on them so I hope they'll be okay. It'll be a flush week so I don't expect too much can go wrong during it. They'll run out of water about half to 3/4 of the way through the week but I don't think that's going to hurt them any. I'm more worried about PH swings, but again it's the last week of their life so I don't think too much can go wrong.
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 phychotron
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#793898 - 09/19/15 02:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Those are nice little nuggets at least, not all fluff and leaf like a lot of lower stuff can be sometimes. Like i was saying, your about 2-3 weeks behind where you think you are, it just took a bit longer for your plant to switch over to flower.
There's an art to getting a plant to the PERFECT veg spot so that it goes right into flower and producing tons of hairs and showing lots of production within the first week. Even with growing the same plant out for two years I still had a hard time getting them perfetly timed/trimmed out so that the veg growth can convert right to flower growth. Some times its looking amazing at 1 week, others take 2-3 weeks for the same results.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
 Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#793899 - 09/19/15 02:32 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh, let me also point out that most plants that say 8 weeks always take 9 or more. And some of those are really 11-12 week plants, but they go through that foxtail phase before plumping up, so they tell to chop at week 9 to avoid that.
I personally think you should let it go to 10 or 11 and really see how she fills in. Its tough getting those extra few weeks out of the plants sometimes, but if you can get it those extra weeks you might be in for a pleasant surprise.
One thing you can notice when the buds end their peak production is that one day they will usually stop using so much water all of a sudden, that's my indication that the plant has reached its potential. You'll go from watering every day to every other day and know that production is slowing.
But if they're SUCKING down water and nutrients its because the plant can still find a spot for them.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#793905 - 09/19/15 03:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
Oh, let me also point out that most plants that say 8 weeks always take 9 or more. And some of those are really 11-12 week plants, but they go through that foxtail phase before plumping up, so they tell to chop at week 9 to avoid that.
I personally think you should let it go to 10 or 11 and really see how she fills in. Its tough getting those extra few weeks out of the plants sometimes, but if you can get it those extra weeks you might be in for a pleasant surprise.
One thing you can notice when the buds end their peak production is that one day they will usually stop using so much water all of a sudden, that's my indication that the plant has reached its potential. You'll go from watering every day to every other day and know that production is slowing.
But if they're SUCKING down water and nutrients its because the plant can still find a spot for them.
I don't harvest based on the appearance of the buds, I harvest based on the color of the trichome. I don't want a couch lock high so I want to harvest before too many trichomes are amber. I already have about 100% amber trichomes on the purple parts of the bud and 90+% milky on the green parts. Although I can hardly see any green through the microscope these days, just white.
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#793919 - 09/19/15 07:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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phooyey, I never go by tricomes, always how the structure of the bud is. Especially with LED's I've noticed they don't change as fast as with HID. I've had 12 week plants with little amber showing but fully developed buds.
I don't see much amber in the photos you posted. In the cleaned nug you can see just a few shinners near the tip, those are your amber one's. They can be seen without a scope by the way the glisten and glean in the light. No amber in that macro shot either, in fact I see a lot of clear.
Its your plant, you'll have to harvest it when you feel the need, but I cannot stress enough that new growers need to PLAY around and see how the plants respond, how it does past the recommended time, how the bud tastes when its harvested too early or how much of your nutrients does it take to kill a plant (tester plants that you don't care if they live or if they die) or how a plant looks when you feed it plain water its whole life.
Sometimes you kill a plant, sometimes you stumble upon a recipe for success. I think the biggest thing holding a lot of gardeners back is that they're not willing to operate outside their comfort zone, therefore never achieving full potential. Fear of loosing out on their harvest if they mess up is keeping them from larger harvests. If you experiment though you can learn how to mess a plant up just right to get the most out of it.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#793923 - 09/19/15 08:39 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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The lower buds don't really have any amber color, it's the tops that I see that on. I have some friends who have grown for decades that highly recommend using the trichomes as the indicator rather than looks so I'm going with what they say, no offense.
This is my second grow with this stain and last time it put on weight very late in it's cycle, however it also didn't have any amber trichomes until after it bulked up so this is clearly different than that.
Edited by efarley (09/19/15 08:40 PM)
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#793931 - 09/19/15 11:28 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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None taken, you'll find that sweet spot where you like it.
Make sure you learn to properly cure your bud, you'll get a lot more flavor out of a bud that's been cured 2 months than one that's a week dry. Its an amazing difference. Some buds won't bring out their full flavor until cured. I didn't like bubble gum that much till I found an old nug that'd been curing after I put the jar down in disgust. The difference was like night and day
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#793932 - 09/19/15 11:54 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Week 9 update (Light switched to 12/12 on 7/18/2015)
So it's looking like the buds are putting on some weight this week finally. Nothing too crazy, but it's something. I'm not going to be doing my harvest nest week as originally planned. I'm considering leaving the plants to flush for a week while I'm out of town, or maybe leaving them with nutes and deciding if I want to flush when I get back to keep giving them more time. I have until Wednesday to decide.
Here's a couple of the buds, that have been getting bigger this week. Looking awesome, but still have a long way to go before they're as big as I was expecting or the other plant is at.
Fox tails continue of course.
Here's a couple buds from the plant that has had big buds, they're really looking good, and nice and fat. I wish all the plants looked like this.
Now for some gorgeous macro shots. You'll notice the purple bits have all amber trichomes, the green bits are still milky so I'm not totally sure what to think of that.
Man up close you can barley see any green, it's just a snowy day
Edited by efarley (09/20/15 10:49 PM)
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#793960 - 09/20/15 09:02 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've never done DWC so I can't help you on that. One thing I go for is to let the plants use the available nutrients in the medium (Coco coir) so that they are loosing green and yellowing in the shade leaves but DWC shouldn't have any if its a fresh tank of water. With coco I can flush then feed plain water and they'll be yellowing big time by the third or fourth day. It only takes a little bit for the plant to use what it has already absorbed, then it'll start pulling from its nutrient reserves(leaves) to focus on reproduction(bud, hoping for a piece of pollen to create a seed)
Strive for something like this when you flush-- it was all green a week prior. I let the leafy bits (non-shade leaf) yellow up until before they start touching the bud.
Oh, and watch out for your friends advice who've been growing for years, those are the people who don't understand that LED's have different variables, such as ambient room temperature (mid-low 80's, not 70's like with HID), nutrient and water uptake or flower time. Some of their advice won't sync properly with your new technology. HID'ers go by traditional knowledge ("I'been doing it since 1985 and blah blah blah he's wrong")and will not get the most out of the LED lights, thereby giving them a bad name because it creates a gentler environment they're not accounting for.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#793966 - 09/20/15 10:10 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
I've never done DWC so I can't help you on that. One thing I go for is to let the plants use the available nutrients in the medium (Coco coir) so that they are loosing green and yellowing in the shade leaves but DWC shouldn't have any if its a fresh tank of water. With coco I can flush then feed plain water and they'll be yellowing big time by the third or fourth day. It only takes a little bit for the plant to use what it has already absorbed, then it'll start pulling from its nutrient reserves(leaves) to focus on reproduction(bud, hoping for a piece of pollen to create a seed)
Strive for something like this when you flush-- it was all green a week prior. I let the leafy bits (non-shade leaf) yellow up until before they start touching the bud.
Oh, and watch out for your friends advice who've been growing for years, those are the people who don't understand that LED's have different variables, such as ambient room temperature (mid-low 80's, not 70's like with HID), nutrient and water uptake or flower time. Some of their advice won't sync properly with your new technology. HID'ers go by traditional knowledge ("I'been doing it since 1985 and blah blah blah he's wrong")and will not get the most out of the LED lights, thereby giving them a bad name because it creates a gentler environment they're not accounting for.
Last time I flushed I gave the plant 4 days with plain water and the leaves never started to yellow. Admittedly I wasn't able to get 100% of the nutes out of the bucket (there was about 1/4 inch of water I couldn't pump out) so they had about 150 PPM during their flush.
This is the first time I've heard that LED should have a different environment than HID. I run my room at 75-78 degrees, I doubt I could run the ambient temps in the 80's due to reservoir temps. I need to keep them below 68 degrees and right now they sit at 66 degrees, raising the room temp would raise that and lead to root rot that kills my plants.
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#794006 - 09/20/15 05:29 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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ahh, right. What about building some sort of insulation zone around the base of the plant? Like a 4x4 foam piece that has slots for the plants, Think plywood but out of Styrofoam ... or just a water chiller... It might be good anyway if your already battling temperature. I've thought about it for my plants as a means to keep falling leaves out of trays and potential bug barrier.
You can use ice to cool you buckets, freeze bottles of water and put them in the tank, or you'd probably be able to surround the buckets with frozen bottles until you find that sweet spot.
Because your not projecting a lot of useless energy on everything like with HID, the plant and walls have less heat/energy to shed. Temperature difference drives the cooling rate, so to keep the plant tissue in optimal energy/heat levels with HID you need to shed excess energy via a greater temperature differential. LED's project less useless light and you don't need to cool the plant (and environment) as much to keep the tissue in the optimal range.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#794007 - 09/20/15 05:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
ahh, right. What about building some sort of insulation zone around the base of the plant? Like a 4x4 foam piece that has slots for the plants, Think plywood but out of Styrofoam ... or just a water chiller... It might be good anyway if your already battling temperature. I've thought about it for my plants as a means to keep falling leaves out of trays and potential bug barrier.
You can use ice to cool you buckets, freeze bottles of water and put them in the tank, or you'd probably be able to surround the buckets with frozen bottles until you find that sweet spot.
Because your not projecting a lot of useless energy on everything like with HID, the plant and walls have less heat/energy to shed. Temperature difference drives the cooling rate, so to keep the plant tissue in optimal energy/heat levels with HID you need to shed excess energy via a greater temperature differential. LED's project less useless light and you don't need to cool the plant (and environment) as much to keep the tissue in the optimal range.
I haven't been fighting heat since the first week when I added an A/C unit into the bedroom. The temps for the water and air are both stable and where I want them to be. I really don't want to add a chiller or insulation, it's a waste of money when my water temps are already where I want them.
I'm going to upgrade my exhaust fan from 160CFM to 3-400 CFM and move the 160 fan into my intake before my next grow. I'm hoping this will exhaust the hot air fast enough that I don't need A/C even. It will create some serious negative pressure (Just a 160CFM fan sucks the sides all the way in), but I don't think that's a bad thing.
Ultimately I'd like to keep my day/night temps close together as I'm told this affects node spacing, especially during the stretch.
I'll have to add playing with the air temps to my list to see if I can get them into the 80's without affecting water temps. I'll also be moving my air pump outside the tent before my next grow, which should help control water temps (pumping cooler air into the water)
Edited by efarley (09/20/15 05:46 PM)
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#794023 - 09/20/15 08:31 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Add the air intake at the bottom and suck the air out of the top. With LED most the heat is ejected out the top of the fixture and you can just suck it off before it gets into the plant zone.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#794025 - 09/20/15 08:32 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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OH, and make sure to filter the air intake for best results.
--------------------
Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#794039 - 09/20/15 09:29 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
OH, and make sure to filter the air intake for best results.
Yup I'll have 160 CFM on the intake at the bottom and 400 CFM on the exhaust above the light. That will leave 240 CFM being exhausted, so I'll replace my air out of the room entirely in a little under 30 seconds 
I might actually have trouble getting temps up to 80+ degrees since I don't keep my house that warm and only have the light to heat the tent up. We'll see though, I was over 90 degrees without A/C and only 160 CFM on the exhaust.
Do you just use like a fish net for a filter?
Edited by efarley (09/20/15 09:30 PM)
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efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#794049 - 09/20/15 10:46 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I noticed tonight that the edges on my leaves are starting to curl upwards. I did a search and the common cause for this is heat stress. However I keep my canopy temperature at 75-78 degrees during the day and around 65 at night. Since my temps are in the butter zone I have trouble believing I'm having an issue with heat stress.
Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this?
Some leaves are worse than this, some are better, this is somewhere in the middle.
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#794078 - 09/21/15 02:15 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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you've got nutrient burn on your tips. The first sign is dead tips like that. Next it'll start on the ruffled part of the leaf (side tips) that you can see starting.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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efarley
LED Grower
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 64
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: phychotron]
#794086 - 09/21/15 04:52 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
phychotron said:
you've got nutrient burn on your tips. The first sign is dead tips like that. Next it'll start on the ruffled part of the leaf (side tips) that you can see starting.
That's really old damage, I'm aware what nute burn looks like and corrected it a long time ago, the color of the tips wasn't what I was asking about lol.
Edited by efarley (09/21/15 04:53 PM)
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oeric mckenna
Pure Indica
Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: efarley]
#794192 - 09/22/15 11:29 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Phosphorous deficiency is another known cause but your leaves look chemically cooked...
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phychotron
Medicated
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 1,995
Loc: Earth (mostly)
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Re: 2nd Grow - Mega Jackpot under AdvancedLED XML 650 using DWC [Re: oeric mckenna]
#794210 - 09/23/15 04:00 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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You'll find you only get exactly ONE shot at growing the dank bud. If a plant fucks up you can't unfuck it very much, and if you mess up drying it you won't get the cure to even happen.
Its very frustrating to have a problem early on in the plants life, only to watch it over the next few months NOT producing like it should.
I doubt its from heat but what is your humidity like? I'd guess low maybe, but its probably a nutrient problem--unbalanced, too much or too little uptake of one nutrient, possibly a pH issue.
Your garden is an entire system, if one variable is out of balance the whole system is out of sync.
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Any help given is for educational purposes only. Its your responsibility not to break any applicable laws
Bamboo Bongs I make | Perfect Dry and Cure | Grapegod under LED
“Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune intoned in the distance by an invisible player.” ~ Albert Einstein
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