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 eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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 Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year.  [Re: Sham87]
#770600 - 03/01/15 04:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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scientism cannot learn good morals into anyone. one can only hope for someone to be good.
i don't want to make a separate thread, so i'm putting that here.
science is cool though, and i hope we start colonizing soon.
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 Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US 
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
#770601 - 03/01/15 04:13 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
eNtranceAsexit said:
scientism cannot learn good morals into anyone. one can only hope for someone to be good.
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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poor boy
Village Idiot
Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 16,230
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: Data]
#770611 - 03/01/15 05:55 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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What the guy above me said...
Holy shit! I spelt above correctly without the spell checks help.
But how did he know he spelt it correctly?
I cheated...
--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
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eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: Data]
#770618 - 03/01/15 06:26 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
agmotes165 said:
Quote:
eNtranceAsexit said:
scientism cannot learn good morals into anyone. one can only hope for someone to be good.
by "learn" i mean determine, or imbibe.
if you don't understand still, then i can maybe help you.
i'll rephrase it. people tend to believe that scientism is the only way to get past hopelessly outdated systems of, lets call it, an artifice, to belief and to what you could call "good sense"; you know how people tend to think of religion as like "bad" because it's "old and outdated" and "there's gotta be a better way!" cause look what it does in the world... it creates problems! but... scientism, doesn't solve any of the original problems of people being immoral or unethical. my point is, that while science can achieve awesome things, it cannot fix the world from the proposal that people can be made better with it. they cannot be made "better" and more ethical or sensible to ethics, by science. science can only increase knowledge and technology. but not change people.
if people remain intransigent (lol my name in the spellcheck is recommended to be "intransigent"; which is fitting), then our Earth will be destroyed by overpopulation and dwindling resources... and it might not happen very soon, but things will consistently and exponentially get worse.
Edited by eNtranceAsexit (03/01/15 06:44 PM)
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: eNtranceAsexit] 1
#770637 - 03/01/15 09:01 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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The scientific method is nothing more than a tool for examining the world around us.
Thinking anything different is just misconception or attributing something that isn't there.
It's up to other pursuits, such as philosophy, to integrate the knowledge obtained through that examination into morals and whatnot.
I'd just as well rather make a religion out of my crescent wrench.
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eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: drawde]
#770640 - 03/01/15 09:22 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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absolutely, that's EXACTLY what i'm trying to say.
i just see people like what's his name Strauss saying just completely illogical shit, and then people saying what amounts to "well he's a scientist, so he must be logical!"
not by from what i've heard. when someone says "science is to observe empirical ect ect" and yada yada, then COOL. i can admire that, and it's absolutely true... and it's important! BUT when i hear someone say that "science can make a more moral world" it just makes me face palm... it's mostly Atheists that say shit like that, and it's just laughable. i don't think Atheism is anything bad, or anything, far from... i just think the disconnect from logic there is laughable, is all.
i think Atheism can be awesome as a way to say "i don't believe in deities and i think that it can be dangerous to believe in things that don't exist".
that's perfectly logical. but to think that "science can make a moral world; and it's better to imagine that then imagine religion can make a better world" is just as illogical as saying "science cannot make a more moral world, and only religion can".
no, actually what's more accurate is waht you said, Drawde. science is for observation and prediction, and technology and study. religion is outdated moral codes and law codes from a time that was, as of now, dumb (albeit for THAT TIME, smart. but not anymore, as previously stated). philosophy and the study of ethics... that is the only way to make a more moral world. like political science, THAT is a philosophy, and THAT can make the world a better more moral place. i guess the philosophy of science, can be said to make a more moral world. but not science itself, or Atheism itself. i mean, i don't think i have to explain why, i hope. i mean, Atheism doesn't just make someone instantly moral because they all of sudden discount religious doctrine and are bereft of religious dogma. people can still be inherently base and evil from just thinking that the world has no ultimate consequences for their actions, and thinking that there is no inherent value and meaning to the world or the universe we abide in.
we should teach ethics in frigging middle school, as far as i'm concerned.
teach kids from the get go the difference between good and bad, and the consequences for being bad, and the gain from being good.
heck, get a guillotine and a watermelon... "kids, this is what happens if you're wrecklessly bad and hurt people." *schwing*
"and when you're dead, you do not experience anything anymore; you feel nothing, and there is just infinite nothingness, and you won't be missed".
that's a pretty damn good lesson plan, i think.
TLDR; ethics are the most important aspect of human morality and should be taught in schools along with the fact of the most ultimate consequence, death and the infinite nothingness following it, after being removed from the world; in which if you were evil, you will not be missed.
PS: i am high, and rambling, please, let me ramble.  i like rambling.
Edited by eNtranceAsexit (03/01/15 09:28 PM)
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
#770664 - 03/02/15 02:55 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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 ok, I can dig it.
Wouldn't that make ethics a study of the benefits/consequences of behavior (both individual and group) using the empirical evidence of history, and making assumptions based on said empirical data that can be used to guess how certain actions/behaviors affect an individual or group in the future?
That sounds dangerously close to a loose use of the scientific method on human behavior to determine what a society should consider "right" and "wrong".
But I must admit that I am both an engineer and an atheist (I guess)...so I'm probably being incredibly biased 
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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poor boy
Village Idiot
Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 16,230
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: Data]
#770670 - 03/02/15 06:49 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Every single GOD damn time yall have to go and get all educated on me. Can't we find a medium?
--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
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SmokeSomeHash
Littlest pee pee on da block
Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 1,555
Loc: murica
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: poor boy] 1
#770672 - 03/02/15 06:53 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Everytime i see or hear someone say that something is laughable it reminds me of jesus from the big lebowski.
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eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: Data]
#770673 - 03/02/15 07:13 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
agmotes165 said:
ok, I can dig it.
Wouldn't that make ethics a study of the benefits/consequences of behavior (both individual and group) using the empirical evidence of history, and making assumptions based on said empirical data that can be used to guess how certain actions/behaviors affect an individual or group in the future?
That sounds dangerously close to a loose use of the scientific method on human behavior to determine what a society should consider "right" and "wrong".
But I must admit that I am both an engineer and an atheist (I guess)...so I'm probably being incredibly biased
 naw, i think you got it pretty much. you can surely be scientific in your study of ethics. ethics isn't necessarily an loose interpretation, although it can be. that's kinda what i'm getting at, people should look at ethics as the answer to questions of morality, but OF COURSE be atheistic, be scientific about it! that only means the answers will be more rational and reasoned, and we can understand morality from a less biased position.
but i think my point was... that don't get anything twisted. right? i mean, everything is it's own kind of study, and they can all be influential on each other's proposals; so one shouldn't believe one can cover another's ground with only one subject. they should all be considered as per what field covers what subject.
it should be obvious, and mostly it's easy to see the difference, and definition. but sometimes (at least in my opinion) things for some people tend to get a little confused. as if all subjects can be covered by an umbrella of one field of study. it certainly can't, you need all of them, to cover individual subjects, and the more those get covered, the more they intertwine then.
 except religion. that's just fancy shmancy writing of olde.
Quote:
poor boy said:
Every single GOD damn time yall have to go and get all educated on me. Can't we find a medium?
see my video game thread, and post in 'er. i didn't even go to school, so, there's no excuse to not be edumacated. just do your own thing.
Quote:
SmokeSomeHash said:
Everytime i see or hear someone say that something is laughable it reminds me of jesus from the big lebowski.
chu thing i'm just rrlawlling about this mang? i'm dead stherious! morrelles!
Edited by eNtranceAsexit (03/02/15 07:20 AM)
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
#770696 - 03/02/15 11:31 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Excellent explanation, and I agree wholeheartedly. 
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: Data]
#770701 - 03/02/15 12:19 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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danke.
i'm watching some Richard Dawkins videos now, and i actually rather like the man. i read God Delusion and i found it very interesting and found some well reasoned arguments against the dangers of faith and irrationality. i happened to also find it funny that he essentially calls himself Agnostic as well as atheist which is alot more rational then i original thought of his proposal at first. from which i found went against the point of his book (rationality; but i misunderstood), but upon further understanding, i realise that while alot of people point to him as a beacon of atheism (and i thought that rather hurt his argument, because i read into his views with that presumption) he actually isn't saying he isn't an Atheist, but that he is Atheistic in some ways... but then doesn't really believe that God is even a debatable proposition, hence, is agnostic and not simply claiming that God cannot exist, which i find alot more rational then what i gleaned before, reading his book.
i find it funny how people spin things, and i think the debate is interesting, but when i hear that people (because of Dawkins or not, whatever the case my be) believe that God cannot be proven, hence that works as proof that there is no God, i just have to shake my head. not only is it irrelevant to rail against God (and not just leave it to blind faith; with which there is certainly a problem) but it is also kind of hypocritical to the proposition that science makes no assumptions.
and it's illogical to propose that one can prove a negative, or believe that anything is proven without any evidence.
i just think it's very funny that that spin is so prevalent. it's like if one wants to claim that they are better thinker, then drop the illogical railing against "God". for all we know, those people who made those religions were as "onto" something only as much as they could be at that time. scriptures should just be seen as fiction and nothing but. that way, whatever one takes from it can be relevant; despite the dangers of blind faith. and whatever one takes from atheism can remain untainted by un-falsifiable and unfounded beliefs. which some people seem to take for granted as inherent truths, when there is no evidence.
funny that, Richard Dawkins actually supports my proposal as well, and i thought of him as rather... well, an arbiter of this kinda irrational thinking. when he really isn't, it's actually just people misunderstanding his position.
LOL people always seem to do that; and it's very funny to me.
anyways, nice talk man. good that we agree on our points of view, on how we should understand ethics. 
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
#770718 - 03/02/15 05:33 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Agreed, I share similar atheist-ish views. I like the way you put it.
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: Data]
#770720 - 03/02/15 05:38 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Atheism is dogmatic out steps empiricial grounds 
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eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: Data]
#770724 - 03/02/15 05:55 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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it certainly can, it just depends on the definition you give it.
it can either be a dogmatic cycle of disbelief in anything that isn't proven yet (which is not scientific, because science is not concerned with beliefs), or a certain lacking of belief in deities that control the universe, simply put, by their lack of influence and input on any physical level. or A-theism.
i wish that certain kiddies would stop touting it as the former.
i opt for the latter understanding and definition. and i am not an atheist. i am agnostic, but when it comes to an atheistic belief, it can be quite logical to deny the belief of deities control of the universe, as there are grounds for that, and it is not a logical leap.
but i see where you're coming from with that comment.
Quote:
agmotes165 said:
Agreed, I share similar atheist-ish views. I like the way you put it.
thank you good sir. i appreciate the compliment. 
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poor boy
Village Idiot
Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 16,230
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
#770738 - 03/02/15 09:12 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
|
eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: poor boy]
#770742 - 03/02/15 10:06 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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i quit highschool in grade 11, so...
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poor boy
Village Idiot
Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 16,230
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: eNtranceAsexit]
#770776 - 03/03/15 07:39 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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High school? Is that a pot head joke or somthin?
--------------------
Learning to love life by living through loss and mistakes
Lessons learned then gradually surfacing, Letting go, stripping naked to scream
I am not perfect nor do I strive to be, I am alive in this world of face first falls and public breakdowns
I'm a retarded, disfigured clown
Dying to be heard through the simple art of letting this heavy wall finally fall
I'm an equal being of no race, or color, a hallucination if you will
Sneaking into the lives of strangers, and letting them fall apart to a new rhythm just to feel better
|
eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: poor boy]
#770779 - 03/03/15 08:29 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: Dwarf planted Ceres has potential for human colonization and NASA will be visiting it this year. [Re: poor boy]
#770783 - 03/03/15 10:38 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
poor boy said:
If every conversation on this site had to accommodate you the outlook would be pretty bleak
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