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 Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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The strain Jack Herer was done by Sensi Seeds with his permision to use his name.
Jack Herer with Ben Dronkers owner of Sensi Seeds
Sensi also has a copyright on the name of the strain so it's outright theft. These fucking scumbags even talk about how the strain has won 11 cannabis cups but neglect to mention that it was the Sensi Seeds version that won all the awards.
Lowrider
Northern Lights
Super Skunk
Cheese
Silver Haze
White Widow
Big Bud
Amnesia Haze
Every one stolen. Let alone you have the nerve to say you make your AK-49 better then the original AK-47. Something tells me there is no breeder there that has half the talent of Simon at serious seeds. Lots of companies do versions of others strains but the ones that don't give credit to the original breeders are rip offs.
Example the right way to do it. In there strain Strawberry Banana Reserva Privada lets you know they are using Serious Seeds bubblegum in it. They just use it in one of their strains and let you know. These guys are outright using the names in fact there is no breeding going on here just making feminized versions of others work.
Maybe I'm wrong someone show me where.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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 13buds
Trichome Farmer
Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 735
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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 Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco  [Re: Magash]
#761601 - 12/14/14 02:05 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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 A M U
13B UDS
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budgrowerwannabe
Bum fighter
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3,360
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: 13buds]
#761725 - 12/14/14 06:24 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wonder if this will smokethem out again lol
I want to see what they have to say about your accusations Mag?
I know if it was me Id be like 
What the fuck do I know In just a hilljack !
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Quote:
I want to see what they have to say about your accusations Mag?
They can say what they want but one of two things is going on. They are either just making feminized versions of others work or naming the strains the same as others strains in order to mislead people into buying them.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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budgrowerwannabe
Bum fighter
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3,360
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: Magash]
#761741 - 12/14/14 08:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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lol
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cannabis_seeds
Stranger
Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 785
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: Magash]
#761759 - 12/15/14 06:21 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Quote:
I want to see what they have to say about your accusations Mag?
They can say what they want but one of two things is going on. They are either just making feminized versions of others work or naming the strains the same as others strains in order to mislead people into buying them.
Vision is open about buying their seeds from other Dutch companies & rebranding (they don't do their own breeding) - they just don't say who because I would assume that if they're known brands, they wouldn't want people to see that they can get them for cheaper under another label.
A lot of companies do this - just like a lot of generic & store-brand products are made by their name-brand counterparts & only labeled differently.
For all we know, Vision's Jack Herer could be from Sensi. However, in all fairness, everyone in the seed trade seems to copy from everyone else - whether they grow out their actual stock & create seeds from it, try to duplicate the same mix or create a completely new strain & use the same name. Everyone seems to have a White Widow, a Blueberry, an OG Kush, a Jack Herer, etc.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that Vision isn't the only company that does this - it's almost an accepted practice since there's no real regulation and even the trademarks aren't really enforced.
I'm even finding that the American breeders are reusing names (not saying it's on purpose) that have absolutely no connection to the original. For example, Bomb Seeds has had a Berry Bomb for at least 5 years - now Elemental Seeds has a Berry Bomb. Big Buddha & Barneys has Blue Cheese - Oregon Green has a Blue Cheese.
Jack Herer is a little different because it involves someone's name & reputation, but if it sells, people are going to copy it. Again, not saying it's right or wrong, it's just what happens with everything. I even find people copying my online material. Drives me a little crazy, but I generally get over it.
Speaking for the Jack Herer description specifically, if you're reading material from our website, I either rewrite these from the breeder descriptions or have it rewritten by another writer. We do this so that it's unique for the search engines & a little more fun to read than what most breeders put up. We always go by the breeder descriptions, but if it's a little bare, we'll add additional content that's generic to a well-known strain - like Cup wins - or take information from logs/reviews.
So the part about AK-49 being better than AK-47 or Jack Herer winning 11 Cups, that's probably my bad - so blame me for that part. It's kind of hard to stretch 1 or 2 sentences & a small list of stats into a whole page at times.
~~sherry
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Cannabis Seeds| Delivered discreetly WORLD WIDE!
Cannabis seeds | Buy Marijuana Seeds from the #1 UK Online Store
Follow us on twitter for special offers on premium beans.
Check our Gorilla Seeds Blog for the latest news.
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13buds
Trichome Farmer
Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 735
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: cannabis_seeds]
#761761 - 12/15/14 07:19 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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when I shop for seeds I chose a "seed store" by their exclusive strains not by the list of strain names they have available. that whole copying of strain names turns me away from a store for that exact reason.. copies. 
now when I first started this hobby it was like trading cards, had to have'em all, but Ive since learned about quality genetics so now I look into lineage b4 making decisions. 
quality over quantity 
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A M U
13BUDS
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cannabis_seeds
Stranger
Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 785
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: 13buds]
#761782 - 12/15/14 12:04 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
13buds said:
when I shop for seeds I chose a "seed store" by their exclusive strains not by the list of strain names they have available. that whole copying of strain names turns me away from a store for that exact reason.. copies.
now when I first started this hobby it was like trading cards, had to have'em all, but Ive since learned about quality genetics so now I look into lineage b4 making decisions.
quality over quantity
That's a smart plan - unfortunately, many people don't take the time to do that (which amazes me considering how expensive most seeds are).
~~sherry
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Cannabis Seeds| Delivered discreetly WORLD WIDE!
Cannabis seeds | Buy Marijuana Seeds from the #1 UK Online Store
Follow us on twitter for special offers on premium beans.
Check our Gorilla Seeds Blog for the latest news.
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budgrowerwannabe
Bum fighter
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3,360
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: cannabis_seeds]
#761785 - 12/15/14 12:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
cannabis_seeds said:
Quote:
13buds said:
when I shop for seeds I chose a "seed store" by their exclusive strains not by the list of strain names they have available. that whole copying of strain names turns me away from a store for that exact reason.. copies.
now when I first started this hobby it was like trading cards, had to have'em all, but Ive since learned about quality genetics so now I look into lineage b4 making decisions.
quality over quantity
That's a smart plan - unfortunately, many people don't take the time to do that (which amazes me considering how expensive most seeds are).
~~sherry
Any smart person does there research before buying any seeds. To tell you the truth, I research almost everything I buy.
Thats just me.
I tend to go off what other people have grown. Logs and such. Youtube is fucking crazy. I can throw out a few guys I watch.
And If I was a knew member and searches vision seeds in this search engine . This thread would pop up.
If I was planning to order from them ,then read all this ! It would change alot of new growers mines .
Just saying!
I love you Sherry your going to be my wife and dont even know it!!
 can you love this face? lol Peace Budgrower
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cannabis_seeds
Stranger
Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 785
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Quote:
budgrowerwannabe said:
Quote:
cannabis_seeds said:
Quote:
13buds said:
when I shop for seeds I chose a "seed store" by their exclusive strains not by the list of strain names they have available. that whole copying of strain names turns me away from a store for that exact reason.. copies.
now when I first started this hobby it was like trading cards, had to have'em all, but Ive since learned about quality genetics so now I look into lineage b4 making decisions.
quality over quantity
That's a smart plan - unfortunately, many people don't take the time to do that (which amazes me considering how expensive most seeds are).
~~sherry
Any smart person does there research before buying any seeds. To tell you the truth, I research almost everything I buy.
Thats just me.
I tend to go off what other people have grown. Logs and such. Youtube is fucking crazy. I can throw out a few guys I watch.
And If I was a knew member and searches vision seeds in this search engine . This thread would pop up.
If I was planning to order from them ,then read all this ! It would change alot of new growers mines .
Just saying!
I love you Sherry your going to be my wife and dont even know it!!
can you love this face? lol Peace Budgrower
you know, with all the invites i get to go smoke with someone - or whatever else - i could probably do a world tour.
but, you guys would be sorely disappointed if i ever showed up. i'm kind of a buzz kill.
i get the research part. i take forever to pick things out - whether it's this stuff or something else. i couldn't think of anything i wanted for christmas so i picked out this big cuisinart food processor and went with it over the kitchenaid because it had less shitty reviews, and i'm still scared i'm going to hate it. can't bring myself to take it out the shipping box.
that face reminds me of the beetlejuice dude my son keeps showing me from howard stern and some movie
~~sherry
--------------------
Cannabis Seeds| Delivered discreetly WORLD WIDE!
Cannabis seeds | Buy Marijuana Seeds from the #1 UK Online Store
Follow us on twitter for special offers on premium beans.
Check our Gorilla Seeds Blog for the latest news.
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13buds
Trichome Farmer
Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 735
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: cannabis_seeds]
#761791 - 12/15/14 01:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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 thats who that is 
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A M U
13BUDS
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budgrowerwannabe
Bum fighter
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3,360
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: cannabis_seeds]
#761793 - 12/15/14 01:02 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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lol I am beetlejuice!
I was just sayin thanks for putting up with me bashin Vision. Wonder if they will pop in?
No for real thats a pic of him . crusty little fucker
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cannabis_seeds
Stranger
Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 785
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Crazy I recognized him.
Son had me watching Trailer Park Boys too - he likes Bubbles.
I was surprised - no matter how stupid it gets, you can't stop watching it.
Same with Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
All I want to know is what kind of drugs were those guys on when they came up with that?
(I hate what passes for Saturday morning kids TV now - I'm positive those people took way too much acid, and not like in a good way at all. Hate to say what I'd like to do to Noodle & Doodle.)
~~sherry
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Cannabis Seeds| Delivered discreetly WORLD WIDE!
Cannabis seeds | Buy Marijuana Seeds from the #1 UK Online Store
Follow us on twitter for special offers on premium beans.
Check our Gorilla Seeds Blog for the latest news.
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13buds
Trichome Farmer
Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 735
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: cannabis_seeds]
#761797 - 12/15/14 01:29 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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 just stay away from Mr. Pickles then, talk about F'd cartoons 
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A M U
13BUDS
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cannabis_seeds
Stranger
Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 785
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: 13buds]
#761798 - 12/15/14 01:40 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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well, now i must watch ....
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Cannabis Seeds| Delivered discreetly WORLD WIDE!
Cannabis seeds | Buy Marijuana Seeds from the #1 UK Online Store
Follow us on twitter for special offers on premium beans.
Check our Gorilla Seeds Blog for the latest news.
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budgrowerwannabe
Bum fighter
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3,360
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: 13buds]
#761807 - 12/15/14 03:39 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
13buds said:
just stay away from Mr. Pickles then, talk about F'd cartoons
ooooooo dude I love this cartoon !! first time i saw iti was really high annd thouhgt I was seeing shit!!!
ITs so fucked up lol Have me trippin
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: cannabis_seeds]
#761811 - 12/15/14 05:01 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vision is open about buying their seeds from other Dutch companies & rebranding (they don't do their own breeding) - they just don't say who because I would assume that if they're known brands, they wouldn't want people to see that they can get them for cheaper under another label.
A lot of companies do this - just like a lot of generic & store-brand products are made by their name-brand counterparts & only labeled differently.
Yeah I know all about this. The majority of those companies are using Nirvana's seeds. Look at the companies doing it (and I won't name them either but I fucking know) almost every one of them has no respect. There the clown shows of the seed industry and fuck it up for all others and it's people just sitting back saying nothing that's gonna keep the seed business a shady joke and at the same time keep watering down the genetics in the market which already is making it harder and harder to find the real thing when looking for a particular strain.
Quote:
For all we know, Vision's Jack Herer could be from Sensi. However, in all fairness, everyone in the seed trade seems to copy from everyone else - whether they grow out their actual stock & create seeds from it, try to duplicate the same mix or create a completely new strain & use the same name. Everyone seems to have a White Widow, a Blueberry, an OG Kush, a Jack Herer, etc
Like I said if it is Sensi Seeds strain they their thieves and if everybody else is doing it so are they simple as that. Now you can't count strains like OG Kush, The real NYC Diesel, Blue Dot, Snow Cap and a lot of the medical strains cause nobody knows the real stories of where those strains came from.
As far as everybody having versions of certain strains tell that to the breeders at DNA Reserva, Sensi Seeds, THSeeds, Serious Seeds, D.J. Short Seeds, Mr Nice Seeds (hell this guy came up with most the strain on the list and doesn't use the names cause another seed company is using them. He renamed the real versions). You know the companies that have real breeders aren't knocking off shit. Sensi Seeds came up with White Lable seeds cause they were so sick of being knocked off they came up with a company to get back by knocking off others. Their way of getting back and good for them.
Quote:
Jack Herer is a little different because it involves someone's name & reputation, but if it sells, people are going to copy it. Again, not saying it's right or wrong, it's just what happens with everything. I even find people copying my online material. Drives me a little crazy, but I generally get over it.
Yeah well I'm not doing business with these companies so I don't have to hide my opinion. When somebody makes a strain and somebody else knocks it off or steals the name cause it sells it's fucking wrong.
Quote:
Speaking for the Jack Herer description specifically, if you're reading material from our website, I either rewrite these from the breeder descriptions or have it rewritten by another writer. We do this so that it's unique for the search engines & a little more fun to read than what most breeders put up. We always go by the breeder descriptions, but if it's a little bare, we'll add additional content that's generic to a well-known strain - like Cup wins - or take information from logs/reviews.
Fine, when your telling the truth but what has me just a little pissed and surprised is this.
Quote:
So the part about AK-49 being better than AK-47 or Jack Herer winning 11 Cups, that's probably my bad - so blame me for that part. It's kind of hard to stretch 1 or 2 sentences & a small list of stats into a whole page at times.
So explain to me how you know that AK-49 is better then AK-47 when the company that makes it as you have already said has no breeders? This sounds like more then stretching 2 sentences. I'm so pissed I can't see straight and better go before I type something I regret.
It's kind of my job to have the backs of the members of this site and nobody can say I don't take it seriously. We may not be big but when it comes to information about growing and stuff related to it I Would like us to be one of the best and not a ICMag clown show.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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cannabis_seeds
Stranger
Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 785
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: Magash]
#761821 - 12/15/14 06:23 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Magash, I'm not trying to justify anything - just saying how it is. I know exactly what you mean about everyone reselling Nirvana's strains.
I don't think most people take my write-ups all that seriously - they're littered with bad jokes, pop culture references & all kinds of other tongue-in-cheek nonsense to make them fun to read. And, I'm pretty open about it.
The facts are in there, but I do take some creative license. "Way better" is a very subjective description - it's not like I'm saying that lab testing showed 20% THC when it really only has 10%, or something like that. Just like I'll use very strong or potent when the breeder only says high powered instead of giving me a THC reference.
And it was sort of a joke because they went from AK-47 to AK-49 - two more must be better, right?
Sorry if I made you mad - you can slam me publicly if you want to. I promise I can take it. I won't even hold it against you. I respect you as a breeder & as someone who really cares about what they do, but you have to remember that my primary job is to sell seeds. If I was in your shoes, I'd feel exactly the same way.
With very few exceptions, none of the actual breeders write their own descriptions - they pay people like me to do exactly what's made you mad. I don't have any extra time to do it for other companies, but lots of known names have asked me if I could provide services.
Would I prefer to test out the strain personally before I write them? Sure, I would - but that would be impossible. So, I take a picture, I take the test results & whatever description they can give me, then flesh it out & hype it up a little.
It's not like I can call someone out for being a copycat, or stealing someone else's strain, or anything like that. If we get lots of complaints and the breeder won't replace the product, I can make a case for taking them off the site, and while it doesn't happen often, it has happened.
I do, however, try to quietly steer people toward something good if I do know it's good - and away from things that I've heard even a few complaints about.
~~sherry
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Cannabis Seeds| Delivered discreetly WORLD WIDE!
Cannabis seeds | Buy Marijuana Seeds from the #1 UK Online Store
Follow us on twitter for special offers on premium beans.
Check our Gorilla Seeds Blog for the latest news.
Edited by cannabis_seeds (12/15/14 06:26 PM)
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cannabis_seeds
Stranger
Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 785
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: cannabis_seeds]
#761864 - 12/15/14 06:37 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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And, since I can't seem to shut up, I'll add one more comment for Vision Seeds.
The breeders don't give me anything extra to say nice things about them - other than what I have to put on the site. So, I'll say nice things if I think they're true, otherwise, I just don't say much.
However, on another site, I knew a couple who lived close enough to travel to Amsterdam to buy their seeds (they said they would buy from us as a site sponsor, but we don't have a storefront & they like doing business in person). They always bought several packs of Vision Seeds. And, while they're operation wasn't on the same scale as Magash's, what they had was very, very nice & more than what most people do at home. So, for them to buy the same brand over & over, I took that as a good sign.
Next, we've coordinated quite a few Vision-sponsored contests & giveaways that looked like they had very good results in the end (sorry dancing around some words to be vague enough to be legal) - so I felt that Vision was a good enough option for people who couldn't afford some of the more expensive brands. Especially since Vision advertises that they get their seeds from the "real" breeders.
Chocoloco seems to be a one-off & they certainly should have tested better - no argument there. They've replaced the seeds plus handed out some of their other strains, so at this point I don't know what they could do to make it more right if that's not enough.
I always hesitate to recommend anything, and thought I had reason to recommend Vision. From here on out, I think I won't advise anyone on what I think would be a good choice. No one here really needs that anyway.
If we're giving away a brand that you guys are iffy about - you're free to not enter the contest. It's not like we're trying to force seeds on anyone. It's supposed to be fun, and now it's not.
~~sherry
--------------------
Cannabis Seeds| Delivered discreetly WORLD WIDE!
Cannabis seeds | Buy Marijuana Seeds from the #1 UK Online Store
Follow us on twitter for special offers on premium beans.
Check our Gorilla Seeds Blog for the latest news.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Vision Seeds : Issues ChocoLoco [Re: cannabis_seeds]
#761866 - 12/15/14 07:06 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Don't trip I'm cool calm and collected.
Quote:
And it was sort of a joke because they went from AK-47 to AK-49 - two more must be better, right?
Ok I get the joke but it's misleading but I do have to admit I kind of like the Gorilla jokes in the descriptions sometimes. 
Quote:
I'll add one more comment for Vision Seeds.
The breeders don't give me anything extra to say nice things about them
Of course they don't. In order for that to be true they would have to be breeders. 
Quote:
They've replaced the seeds plus handed out some of their other strains
I'm gonna leave the "their other strains part alone
You already know how serious I take the growing thing way more then I should. This strain name thing is one of my biggest piss offs. This name thing is the reason the clubs are full of mislabeled buds for sale. Clones that aren't what they claim to be. New growers all excited to grow what they think is their favorite strain only to be let down at harvest.
You'll be happy to know that my fiancee gave me one of my presents early so I could have it while some of the football season is here. A football jersey of my favorite team with that name you two love so much on the back.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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