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 Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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 Pollen(less) sacs 
#745821 - 08/31/14 03:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm having a problem getting any pollen out of my male plants and the females I've sprayed with STS that produce pollen sacs. Not a single one is dropping any pollen. Is this normal for a plant to produce pollen sacs and have them open with nothing inside?
I'm starting to think something I feed them is destroying their ability to produce pollen.
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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 Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#745917 - 08/31/14 09:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just to clarify... I'm only trying to establish if this is highly abnormal or something that happens a lot, maybe with newer genetics. I've had 0 pollen from 4 different flowering periods and multiple genetics males or females with male pollen sacs(from STS). Like I could just leave the males in my grow room and not worry about a single spec of pollen. They open up and fall off but there's just no pollen.
I'm wondering if maybe I'm fucking with the plants by taking the males out of 11/13 HPS and then into slightly varying but near 12/12 CFL
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#746480 - 09/05/14 04:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So 2 recent males dropped a miniscule amount of pollen from the last few pollen sacs remaining, but it was such a small amount that you can't even see it besides in the air in front of a light. Is that even somewhat common?
I kind of wish there was a way to ask questions without having to make a whole new thread.
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 bEelzeBosS
Are my eyes red?
Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 706
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#746483 - 09/05/14 04:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wish I had that problem. I had a plant herm, couldn't even find the pollen sack(s) but it pollinated my entire grow. Luckily they were almost finished anyway and I cut them down before the seeds fully formed but now Im worried about the pollen infesting my next batch.
As for your question, I havent ever heard of anything like you're describing and Im not finding anything with a google search either. Surely Magash will have an answer for you.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: bEelzeBosS]
#746497 - 09/05/14 06:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes it happens but not often. For it to be happening to a bunch of plants at the same time is almost unheard of. Did all the plants come from the same batch of seeds cause in that case I'd have to say something genetic. What sts mix are you using? HOw are you collecting the pollen?
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oeric mckenna
Pure Indica
Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Magash]
#747290 - 09/10/14 07:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Usually what I'd refer to as "female pollen sacks", and some refer to as wax beans...nanners...ect (not herms with male balls) have pollen on the exterior
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***Handing someone your life's work....in a single seed =  ***
HIGHER THAN A GEORGIA PINE
Oeric's Winter Grow Projects
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Quote:
oeric mckenna said:
Usually what I'd refer to as "female pollen sacks", and some refer to as wax beans...nanners...ect (not herms with male balls) have pollen on the exterior
interesting. Do females with hormone or chemical induced male sacs still drop pollen though? I haven't had any do that, but I assumed it could be because they are too moist wrapped in baggies while still on the plant.
BTW this has happened on maybe 7 males of maybe 4 strains and several months apart. I really don't even feel like trying to sort out this problem via forum. It gives me too much of a headache. Too many details. At least my most recent male looks like it's going to drop pollen.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn] 2
#747407 - 09/10/14 07:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Try this, cut the flowers as they are about to open and put them in a cup of water over a mirror. The pollen should drop on the mirror.
With the plastic bags even if you collected any pollen if it has any moisture in it it will be unusable anyway.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
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P-O
Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 17,891
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Magash]
#747426 - 09/10/14 08:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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cool
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lordhelmut
Stranger
Registered: 09/03/14
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: P-O]
#747447 - 09/10/14 11:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
P-O said:
cool
This!!!!
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: lordhelmut]
#747464 - 09/11/14 07:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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the males that aren't dropping pollen haven't been wrapped up btw. they are just open to the air, but I've been using mylar to catch potential pollen. It's definitely an issue of no or minuscule amounts of pollen dropping.
this is a newer male that hopefully wont have the same problem. just showing how I catch the stuff on males
Thanks for the replies all
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#747498 - 09/11/14 10:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've had sterile males before so I'm sure you're right but we have to cover our bases to find out the problem. The problem is a little more common with plants that have been turned but for all of them is strange. As far as catching the pollen you're doing what I showed just with foil so that isn't the problem.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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oeric mckenna
Pure Indica
Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#747589 - 09/11/14 07:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
Quote:
oeric mckenna said:
Usually what I'd refer to as "female pollen sacks", and some refer to as wax beans...nanners...ect (not herms with male balls) have pollen on the exterior
interesting. Do females with hormone or chemical induced male sacs still drop pollen though? I haven't had any do that, but I assumed it could be because they are too moist wrapped in baggies while still on the plant.
BTW this has happened on maybe 7 males of maybe 4 strains and several months apart. I really don't even feel like trying to sort out this problem via forum. It gives me too much of a headache. Too many details. At least my most recent male looks like it's going to drop pollen.
Yeah man, I've had the bag wrap method make the pollen moist and hard to detect... no bueno.
The female pollen sacks never drop pollen but I think THAT pollen is highly underrated and quite valuable...
(Also, that pollen isn't potent like male pollen. Intentionally spreading it to host buds won't ruin your crop like male pollen. It's nowhere near as potent, and in my useage of it, usually averages one seed per bud if manually applied. Very useful for self x self strain stabilization seed run, and genetic preservation too I say. Welcome to the world of the female seed.)
Its basically a hard wired genetic response for species survival during a catastrophic event with the presence of no males...
The best way to make them appear with the least amount of stress and least panic response for future DNA is old age.
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***Handing someone your life's work....in a single seed = ***
HIGHER THAN A GEORGIA PINE
Oeric's Winter Grow Projects
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Magash]
#747739 - 09/12/14 04:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
I've had sterile males before so I'm sure you're right but we have to cover our bases to find out the problem. The problem is a little more common with plants that have been turned but for all of them is strange. As far as catching the pollen you're doing what I showed just with foil so that isn't the problem.
Ya I'm not ignoring it, I just am not up to laying out every detail in the thread. I'm at least keeping track of what I do and don't feed plants and trying slight variations to potentially figure out the problem. Well and improve my grow skills. I have a few ideas what it could be. One of the main things I need to eliminate is an interruption in light cycle, and high humidity for the fems(I'm trying out the water over a mirror surface pic thing). Though it's a near stretch to assume both the male and females failed to drop pollen for different reasons.
Would an interruption in the males flower cycle even inhibit pollen dropping? I have been a little sloppy with the males light cycles after I separate them. I just put them in my bedroom next to the window or under a CFL then cover them with a very thick garbage bag for the dark 12.
BTW I'm kind of surprised you knew to call that stuff foil. Unless you thought it was aluminum foil. It's heavy aluminized polyester foil. Mylar is actually a brand of aluminized polyester foil or aluminized other foil. Don't ask how I know that =P
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Quote:
oeric mckenna said:
The best way to make them appear with the least amount of stress and least panic response for future DNA is old age.
I think it was magash who was saying that letting plants hermie from old age leads to either bad genetics or more hermies and that it can be better to choose plants that don't grow any balls from old age. I'm not sold on that though since I kind of think that plants producing pollen from old age is the plants will to survive. Though that's getting into superstition territory.
oh btw I heard somewhere else recently that when you find 1 or 2 seeds on a plant, they are more likely to grow into high quality plants because they are fighting to carry on their genetics. which is what I'm basing my counter opinion in the previous paragraph on. Also they are supposed to be more likely female.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#747763 - 09/12/14 06:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The best way to make them appear with the least amount of stress and least panic response for future DNA is old age.
This method is called Rodelization and was developed by Soma of Soma's Seeds. He used this method to make his feminized seeds cause he likes to do everything organic. This method gave people so many hermies that he's pretty much out of business in fact he's selling rolling papers now. Read the reviews on Soma's Seeds before he did his fems and after.
Now do I believe that the response by the plant is a survival one? Yes I do but I also believe the plant goes out to make hermie seeds that can survive on their own in order to prevent the problem from happening again. Why do I believe this? Cause this is what I've seen with every strain it's been done with.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Magash]
#747830 - 09/12/14 11:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Magash said:
Quote:
Now do I believe that the response by the plant is a survival one? Yes I do but I also believe the plant goes out to make hermie seeds that can survive on their own in order to prevent the problem from happening again. Why do I believe this? Cause this is what I've seen with every strain it's been done with.
Ah I didn't know it was that big a problem. Well that's good to know then.
I know soma seeds just came out with so-g-kush, but I don't think he does the breeding.
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oeric mckenna
Pure Indica
Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#747916 - 09/13/14 04:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Plants that are femmed by too much stress can definitely throw seeds that will be true herms. I've encounter this too and its something to watch for. The plants offspring seem, to a certain degree, to remember the stress.
True herns= kill em with fire!
Do not finish, or grow out, breed with , or continue a true herm. (Female plant with true male balls)
This is a mutation with X,Y Chromosomes, just like a male.
Originally with mine in the mid 90's I was using that gibberellic tomato hormone.
If you're attentive and not careless, trying to jump the gun or get greedy with it, you can do this, or other methods, and still get quality females what won't herm out down the line....
At least, I've had great luck with it throughout the years but I never tried mass pumping the seeds and using the plants like a workhorse seed whore haha...
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***Handing someone your life's work....in a single seed = ***
HIGHER THAN A GEORGIA PINE
Oeric's Winter Grow Projects
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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hey oeric, have you noticed any benefit to using gibberellic acid vs other alternatives when it comes to hermie prevention? and how should I use my non pollen dropping fem plant pollen sacs to pollinate females? crush them up maybe?
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#748004 - 09/14/14 10:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Be careful when using gibberellic acid. Nasty shit and pretty toxic. Old school way of making feminized seeds that never caught on with any real breeders cause it's not nearly as effective as sts. With some strains it works and with others it makes hermies or mutants. Just to let you know you're gonna have the same problem with gibberellic as with your other methods.
If you're having the problem with multiple strains, both male and female the problem isn't the sts, cs, or whatever feminizing method you're using it's something you're doing or something in the environment.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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Midgetpawn
Registered: 06/21/13
Posts: 577
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Magash]
#748015 - 09/14/14 11:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well he was saying "The female pollen sacks never drop pollen" and I'm just wondering about gibberellic acid vs STS when it comes to breeding and future potential hermies. btw STS is some powerful shit when it comes to producing pollen sacs on females. I sprayed one branch only once and it grew a shitload of pollen sacs.
I bought some GA3 because I'd read you can use it to get more females fro reg seeds, but I later learned that using a little more is supposed to boost males. There are several claims to what different GA3 amounts can do, and it all seems made up.
Edit add: pic of the 2 fem branches
Edited by Midgetpawn (09/14/14 11:59 AM)
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#748016 - 09/14/14 11:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just be careful with it cause it's nasty shit. I don't think it promotes males cause I don't think anything can do that. Hermies that's a different story. STS works by attaching itself to the hormone that tells the flower to form in the female shape. Gibberellic works more along the lines of shocking the plant.
The only real difference between the male plant and the female is the ability to make the hormone that tells the flower to form in the female shape. They both use the same hormone to trigger flowering. The thing with sts is that when properly done the plant never knows anything was done to it.
When gibberellic came out in the early 90s it was a big deal. Then people started planting the seeds and it was gone pretty fast. I never did use it on regular males so I can't answer if it will work there or not.
From this point on I'd listen to Oeric cause it sounds like he has more exp with it then I do. 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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oeric mckenna
Pure Indica
Registered: 07/18/14
Posts: 758
Loc: Mars
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Re: Pollen(less) sacs [Re: Midgetpawn]
#748020 - 09/14/14 11:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Midgetpawn said:
hey oeric, have you noticed any benefit to using gibberellic acid vs other alternatives when it comes to hermie prevention? and how should I use my non pollen dropping fem plant pollen sacs to pollinate females? crush them up maybe?
Its probably the same as any other method. If you already have these things going on, I'd say there's no reason to use it at all.
What I like to do as far as pollenating is basically embed one of them gently into a young bud and leave it there, at a time just past the white hairball stage & label the bud stem with tape or a twist tie
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***Handing someone your life's work....in a single seed = ***
HIGHER THAN A GEORGIA PINE
Oeric's Winter Grow Projects
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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There are some things I hate to post one is the way I do my seeds but here ya go.
STS in any concentration is only effective at inhibiting ethylene for about 3 weeks; at that point the plant's natural female metabolism begins to take back control, and even a plant that is covered with male blooms can't finish the journey to manhood and produce pollen. A second spraying allows inhibition to last through week 6, which is more than enough time to release pollen if you have decided to use stronger concentrations of STS. This is fine as long as it doesn't burn your plants. Obviously there is a wide range of usable formulas that will work. But the second spraying is the key to follow-through. You can store the working solution you used for round one (in the spray bottle) in your refrigerator for two weeks; no need to mix a new batch from stock.
I don't see the point of going any stronger than the formula I originally came up with. It has proven itself many times over. The only change I might make is to adjust it slightly to Gobgoober's "molar-correct" mix ratio. This is not at all necessary, but does allow the most effective use of the chemicals together.
Here's a post of the formula mix instructions, with the adjusted recipe below that:
Preparation of STS:
First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.
Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.
Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water
The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.
The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).
This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.
Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss.
The adjusted formula is as follows:
Part A: .7 gram silver nitrate stirred into 40ml distilled water
Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water
Next, slowly add the silver nitrate solution to the sodium thiosulfate solution while stirring. This combination is then added to 800 ml of distilled water to equal 1 liter. This is your final stock solution. It is diluted 1:9 with more distilled water to make your final working solution, which then gets sprayed on your target plant.
Either formula will work great, so don't sweat it too much. But do that second spraying at the end of week 2... seems to be the key for getting pollen from the more difficult strains.
May be a bit late to help ya now but maybe in the future.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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