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Quote: hawksapprentice said: Um.....I didn't read that, because of the first line you wrote. "A Gay"?? How homophobic are you?
Well then your never gonna want to read another thing I write cause my answer to your question is, Extremely.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
I didn't say I want to kill them I just don't want to associate with em. If a guy looks at another guys harry ass and wants to get down with it then there is something wrong with that guy (just my opinion)
as far as them getting married and having the same rights as everybody else I'm fine with that cause that is what everybody deserves. Other then convicted murderers and crap.
Quote: Yeah but what you said is akin to "a black."
Really, ya think so? Walk up to a gay guy with somebody else and say "look a gay". Then try walking up to a black guy with somebody and say "look a black". Then let us know if there isn't a difference.
Quote: Doesn't seem like a trait for someone who seems to love and respect all creatures.
and I've said I can't stand humans many times. I feel nothing for homeless people unless they are the mentally disabled. People with drug problems, lost their jobs and so on I don't feel shit for. Their problems were caused themselves or by other humans. When you look at homeless animals there problem isn't there fault guess who is at fault.....humans are. How do we solve the problem we kill them which is bullshit. When we start putting down the homeless after holding them in a cage for a few days then I may give a shit.
Starving people in other countries same thing. Everyone of those countries is overpopulated. What they are thinking when people around them are starving including their own kids? What in the hell possesses them to have even more kids when they know what the outcome is gonna be?
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
And why not? If someone is no longer a threat to society then why lock them up? Why keep 80 year old men who committed murders in their 20s locked up? What is the point?
Really? Try telling this line of utter bullshit to the family's of the people they killed. Try telling this line of total bullshit to the kid that didn't have a father or mother cause of it. Try telling this line of bullshit to the mother that didn't get to see their kid make something of their lives.
Quote: You're dichotomous approach to compassion and love has made me lose a lot of respect.
Could care less. I'm out to help animals and don't give a shit if I'm respected or not.
Quote: I would give my kidneys to a murderer, if I knew that one day they would once again walk the streets and be a productive citizens. If I knew that they could be changed, I would give everything just to part this earth knowing, that I made a difference. I changed someones life.
Yeah sure, good luck with that. Already been proven that the majority of people in jail come out and recommit crimes again. When you do it be sure to post a pic of you and your new friend with another pic of your surgery scar. At least I'm helping find homes and helping out homeless animals what are you doing (this is the part where you make up the good deeds your doing).
Quote: It is never solely the fault of anyone for the situations they are in. That would assume that everyone has control over everything in their lives, and that just NOT TRUE AT ALL.
Ok, that is just swell. Only I never stated that, read the answers before posting. I said it's the fault of humans wether their fault or not. Then again if a person is in a bad situation cause of something that isn't their fault what they do about it and the decisions they make is.
Quote: If a person become a murderer or mentally ill, or a drug addict I think it's societies fault.
Utter bullshit and that answer is nothing but that. People are responsible for their own actions. Blaming society is a pitiful excuse at best. What a line of crap. Please explain to me how society makes somebody schizophrenic.
Quote: You don't know why that person is homeless. Maybe they're a rejected asylum seeking refugee, and the reasons for rejection are not always right or good. Maybe they're trapped in your country because they are stateless people who just wanted a chance.
Thank you for proving my point. As I said they are on the street cause of their own actions or the actions of others either way the problem is caused by humans which is what I said. Your reading is as bad as my writing.
Quote: Then what would you do? Send them to jail in your great state of JAILS!?
Where exactly did I state this? More bullshit. In fact where exactly did I say anybody should be locked up? Please show me. I also never said they shouldn't be helped what I said is I don't feel for them so show me where I stated anything other then that.
Quote:
Your environment is what shapes you. You only reflect the complex society that you're exposed to.
Well hey then lets let all the killers go free since it's not their fault. More bullshit. Nothing but a piss poor excuse for actions that people take. Environment may help to shape people but environment or society doesn't make a person pull a trigger or hit their kids. That is decision made by the person behind the trigger and nobody or nothing else.
Quote: It is never solely the fault of anyone for the situations they are in. That would assume that everyone has control over everything in their lives, and that just NOT TRUE AT ALL.
Maybe but everybody has full control over the actions they take because of it. There is never a time when murder is a valid action to take just cause society has dealt them a a bad hand.
Quote:
If a person become a murderer or mentally ill, or a drug addict I think it's societies fault. Society has failed to use the potential of a human being.
This comment is disgusting. A guy kills his wife and child cause he's pissed but it's societies fault. Another stupid excuse for people to blame the actions they take on something else and not take the responsibility for what they have done. It's not societies responsibility to use a person to their full potential its up to the person to use themselves to their full potential. Saying a person couldn't do it cause they can't afford the school they wanted to go to or something along those lines would make more sense but even that isn't a excuse.
Quote:
You cannot love with hate so deep in your veins.
I never said I hated anybody so this comment is fairly stupid at best. I never said anybody should be locked up but I sure as hell am not going to come up with bullshit excuses for people actions.
Hey I became a grower cause I didn't like the 9 to 5 five thing or at least that is what I thought but now I know society made me become a grower thank you for showing me that. Sorry I became a grower cause I love to grow and know how to make money doing it simple as that. I became fairly good at it so I try to help others do the same. Wether they become growers or even want to use the advise I give is entirely up to them.
What your spewing is nothing but granola eater bullshit and excuses for people to dodge the responsibility for the things they have done or the actions they take.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
I don't mean you any disrespect either I just get into a argument remember I have the grammar skills of a 5 year old.
Now back to it shall we
Quote: I would happily do that. There is nothing to redeemed from retribution. Nothing has ever come of retribution.
Now get your fucking ass in the real world will you. (Ok that last part was a joke now I'll get real). Yes what your saying is true but if somebody killed any of my kids one of which is a member here I wouldn't give a shit how long he was in jail. I wouldn't want him out period. I'm not saying it's right or not but I do know the way a parent thinks. Sure some would forgive and their strong people to be able to do that. Problem is 99% of people wouldn't. I would want that person in for every year of life my kid missed because of them (sure I don't know how long my kid would have lived but I'm gonna assume my kid would have live a full productive life and I want the guy that took it to pay) Simply put if you take a life you better be damned prepared to give yours up at the very least. Don't take what you can't give so to say.
Quote:
I think you should try not to hurt others in the process.
Once again I say your reading is as bad as my writing cause my saying I don't feel sorry or their cause isn't hurting them.
Quote:
Yet, when people go to jail they lose many rights. It's more difficult to get a job. Society ostracises the ex-con. Maybe that's why?
Your absolutely right on this but what got them there in the first place. Don't commit the crime if you can't deal with the consequences and unfortunately that is one of them that we all know going into it. Just like I'm a grower and I don't hide it from anybody but I do know when people give me that "What do you do for a living" question and I say I'm a grower for the clubs I know some will say it's cool but just as many are gonna roll their eyes and give me that "he's promoting drugs use" look.
Quote: For all events in life, I think it is hard to trace everything back to singular cause. Some people are simply unfortunate, and not because of their decisions or any others.
I think we should feel sorry for the unfortunate and help them help us. We can't help anything if not ourselves and each other.
Making the right decisions can be odiously difficult if there are not much opportunities and resources available.
Once again agreed that the right decision may be a hard one to make but that is still no excuse to kill or ruin the lives of others because of it. You kill a person and that person isn't the only one effected by that move. The entire family, friends, and so on. People pulling the trigger know this we can't assume that a bad life makes people stupid.
Quote: Poor diet? Bad living conditions? These are major contributing factors solely influenced by societies. The development of a society, and the unintended consequences of it's development, both socially and technologically no doubt have a huge influence on our behavior. Surely you agree?
Sure I do but that is still no excuse. When a person kills a person or robs a store or whatever they have chosen to do they still know they are doing a crime or that they are doing the wrong thing. We can't assume that society makes people stupid and give them excuses because of it. Just cause you can't afford college cause you may be of a certain race, gay or whatever doesn't give you the right to pull a gun and take somebody else's money. Surely you must agree on that.
Quote:
It's mindless to just let people rot and suffer and then say they made bad decisions. It costs less to rehabilitate people and then to employ them.
Only problem all attempts to rehabilitate people have failed in most cases. People are people no matter what got them to that point. There are lots of places that don't have what we have here that doesn't mean they need to go on a crime spree.
Quote: It's not about passing the blame. It's about working together - it's about compassion. You can't always make the best decisions with whatever limited knowledge you have - it takes a life time of experience to begin to make good informed decisions.
If we take every opportunity to try to blame a cause of a hole in the road, you may make it to the end, but you'll miss the journey.
You can't blame a child for making a bad decision childish decision. I think it's also hard to blame an adult for making a bad adult decision.
That is true to a point. Killing or murder doesn't fall into this category. Making a bad job choice yeah but we all know killing is wrong no matter what situation we are in or what the problems in life we are facing.
Quote: I must have missed your point.
Some of the things I said in my post were just supportive examples and other annotations. It's not because I'm misreading what you said.
lol...got ya but it helps if the example goes with the quote
Quote: What I'm asking is, "what do you do with these misforunates who have made poor choises? Send them to jail to punish them in the land of jails (where you live)? It's a waste of money and life, no matter the crime.
But maybe this is offtopic.
Yeah it's off topic but it's a good subject so lets delve into it a little. I like discussing shit with people that are smart but have a different view.
That is the problem what do we do with them? Right now jail is the only thing. Sure you can try and rehabilitate (holy shit that one I didn't need spell check for) them but the problem is that has already been proven moderately successful at best. You can't let 100 killers go free because you feel 2 of them may become productive citizens.
Quote: I think murderers are mentally ill people. I think mentally ill people cannot make good decisions. They should be treated like mentally ill people.
I'll have to disagree. I kind of studied the killer thing some years (I wanted to know what was going threw a serial killers mind when they do what they do) ago and most have been proven not to be mentally ill. Now am I saying this in all cases hell no. Those that have been proven mentally ill should be treated as such as you said but the majority of mental illness can't be cured. Your born with a mental condition so what exactly do you do with somebody who you know you can't stop them from wanting to kill cause they have no control over the problem themselves? Good question but we have to do what we have at hand now wether it's right or wrong. They sure can't be released to the public to do the same things over and over again. Put them in mental institutions? Most of them are worse then jail.
Quote: Again, I think it's almost impossible to fathom what the conditions might be that cause a person to kill. Again maybe they're mentally ill and their decision making is impaired?
Once again I can only partially agree. Mentally ill people can't control their actions but everybody else can when it comes to killing. No matter what our social situation is we all know killing is wrong if you don't then you fall into the mentally ill category.
Quote: No sane kills out of anger. Society needs to take care of that for everyones sake.
Society cannot develop progressively at it's potential, if not all of it's members are participating to their potential. Help you help me. Make an investment, and get a return. That's what it's all about.
Socioeconomic factors are a huge influence in schooling and even future employment. This is pretty uniform across societies. Some people because of the conditions they live under, cannot go to school like they want. I've heard that story a few times.
Problem is none of this gives a person a right to take a life. Sure the help you help me thing sounds nice and but problem is it hasn't worked. Sounds nice but in todays society I don't think that it will ever be that way. Sounds bad but lets face it that is the way it is.
By the way I'm a Mexican living in California so don't tell me I don't know how people can hate you because of your race. I get to see it all the time. I hear all the time "you don't look Mexican" like it's a compliment and I usually don't say anything cause as bad as it is they actually ment it in a nice way. (sad as that sounds) I also refuse to let my race or anybody that hates me because of it stop me from doing what I want to do. I love hearing people say they would never smoke Mexican. Then I pull my pipe or bong and start hogging the weed when they complain I just say "you said you'd never smoke Mexican"
Remember this a lot of our views may be influenced by where we live. Your in Europe (I love going to Amsterdam by the way) so maybe you can do the "help me help you" thing but I live in the states so we may be influenced by what we ourselves see. Example I took care of a guys house while he was in the hospital and during that time they pulled two murdered bodies out of the bushes next to his house. We have 50000 murders a year here so the help me help you thing won't work unless you happen to be giving away free bullets.
Morning feeding time is here. I have 6 dogs, 14 cats, a horse, a new arrival to the group Pete the lama and a bunch of reptiles looking at me with where the hell is breakfast look.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Quote: hawksapprentice said: Lookie what I got started
Yup, it's been good natured but a good argument that shows the differences on how people think about a subject. (Holy shit listen to me I sound like a bad episode of Dr. Phil)
Anyway I have to guess that your Man Eaters are getting big and doing well. I think you will like the resin production and enjoy making some bubble out of them when the time comes.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Quote: hawksapprentice said: They're very tall right now. And yes it was a well thought out argument and no animosity in it. That's what you get when it's a tight knit community, that actually respects one another.
Well a little at first on my part but you know already how I react then think. Remember the "why the fuck did you move my thread" incident then finding it wasn't moved. That was really one of my smoother moves
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Quote: Sham87 said: Jesus guys. Hey look! A stoner!
Honestly if I offended anyone by saying "a gay" I apologize, those were not my intentions here.
lol....nah Sham87 your cool I'm the one that got this one started.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
This answer to a question that wasn't directed to me got the ball rolling.
Quote: Well then your never gonna want to read another thing I write cause my answer to your question is, Extremely.
So
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Actually Sham87 got the ball rolling. If he hadn't said what he said you wouldn't have made your comment. But yeah your comment made me say what I said (and I meant it) buuuuut that don't change the fact that my comment got the discussion going.
I am the King and always will be............
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Ahhhhh....it's ok let em fly. We gotta have fun in this forum every once in a while and since I'm the target I can ok it. Sock it to me...........
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Well yeah we already said we are against that. I don't want to see gay spidey.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Quote: And I can understand that. But I think you can also see how letting go and forgiving, can actually be better for both parties.
Yes but I'm in the real world where this just isn't going to happen including where you live.
Quote: My reading is pretty bad.
lol....I'm not gonna comment.
Quote: This is where I think we don't see eye to eye. First off, many of those people are jailed unfairly, so I really do question why they got there. But that's beside the point:
I don't think any sane human being, with equal opportunities and rights, commits crimes against others. Why would they? My only explanation is that you must be ill. If they're ill, they need help.
This is where your dead wrong. Not my word but the word of Dr. Scott A. Bonn, PhD world foremost expert on why people kill. Also according to Professor David Wilson who is the foremost expert on both killers and serial killers in Europe. He's based in England. How exactly is a person who killed somebody put in jail unfairly? The comment makes no sense.
Quote: Two wrongs don't make a right either. You don't rectify a ruined life with another ruined life.
There is never a good excuse to kill period.
Your basically repeating what I said in the quote. Yes two wrongs don't make a right.
Quote: Nothing ever gives you the right to do that. The fact is, those are some of the factors behind what cause violence and unrest in many societies. So whether it gives you the right or not, they are causal factors. So you either have to introduce a top down strategy and improve infrastructure, or go bottom up and fix victims.
Neither of which is ever going to happen. I'm in the real world. When a person has lost a child due to murder how do you fix that victim. Once again your stating the impossible. This includes where you live.
Quote: This is where I think we don't see eye to eye. First off, many of those people are jailed unfairly, so I really do question why they got there. But that's beside the point:
I don't think any sane human being, with equal opportunities and rights, commits crimes against others. Why would they? My only explanation is that you must be ill. If they're ill, they need help.
Once again your stating things that have been proven wrong in countless studies. No as much as I hate to say it the majority of killers wether serial or otherwise have been proven not to be mentally ill wether here or in Europe. One of the best studies on this is by (I told ya I studied this in depth) University of California, Los Angeles, professor of psychiatry and biobehavioral sciences and director of the school's Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Laboratory
Quote: That's not true at all. Rehabilitation has helped many people. People have an incredible capacity for change and resilience.
Once again yeah it is true as much as I hate to say it both here and there. Numerous studies have proven this also.
Quote: Moderately successful compared to what though? And I have to disagree, compassionate rehabilitation works more than it doesn't otherwise it wouldn't be used in places like Sweden or the Netherlands.
Really I need to see this because every study out of Europe says that over 85% of your criminals recommit. The rehabilitation rate both here and in Europe has been major landslide of failure.
Quote:
That's not true at all. Rehabilitation has helped many people. People have an incredible capacity for change and resilience.
Sure it's helped many people but in over 85% of the cases in Europe and 90% here it has failed. I'm not stating my opinion which is what your doing. The majority of the time it has failed. The one country world wide that has had the most success in rehabilitation is Norway and they are at 50%
Quote: First of all, mental illnesses can also develop during the course of a persons life solely due to environmental factors and furthermore, it should be noted the exponential growth in mental illnesses across societies.
Second of all I can't see how you think murderers are totally sane people. Why would you harm someone unless it was for a survival advantage? Almost all human survival advantage comes from co-dependance. Any deviation from the tribal model in my view is a flaw in the mind of the deviant one.
Non of the mental illness that cause people to kill have been proven to be caused by environmental factors.
A good read on the subject is by Coin Wilson and Donald Seaman in The Serial Killers: A Study in the Psychology of Violence.
Quote:
Then all intentional murderers are mentally ill. If it was wrong to them they wouldn't do it.
Once again proven wrong in so many studies conducted world wide I can't even begin to list them all. Take for instance first degree murder where the murder has to be planed out over a period of time in most cases. Mentally ill people if they are that don't sit and plant a murder for financial gain over a period of years. Your stating opinions and I'm stating case studies. Ted Bundy for one was never found to be insane but still killed over 30 people. Do I think he was insane sure I do but unfortunately I'm wrong have been proven wrong by the experts who know a hell of a lot more then we do. Also the case of Behring Breivik. He killed 77 people in Norway and was found to be sane at the time of the incident. Two psychiatric experts recommended he spend four weeks under 24-hour psychiatric monitoring. The report said Breivik was not psychotic at the time of the crimes, does not suffer from a psychiatric condition and is not mentally challenged.
Quote: It hasn't worked because it has never been instituted. How can such a model work in a country like the United States when your economy is designed for a perpetual state of warfare? You say it hasn't worked, but I ask, what trials are you referring to?
Cool, but I'm not telling you how people can hate you because of your race, I'm telling you hate for your race or sexuality, it's hate all the same for individual differences.
Just one of numerous trials is the Crominon project. Established in 1970 in New Zealand, the Criminon program consists of exact steps, each one bringing about precise changes in the individual. Growing out of the worldwide Narconon drug rehabilitation program3, Criminon now operates within corrections systems throughout the United States to rehabilitate criminals by restoring their sense of self-worth so that they can become productive members of society.
The centerpiece of the Criminon program covers 21 precepts that make up this non-religious, common sense moral code. Each precept is studied so that an inmate not only understands how it applies to his own life, but so he actually can utilize the precept to increase the survival potential of himself and others.
This has been the best attempt so far world wide and has had moderate success.
Quote: It's just primordial prevention, the help me help you thing. You help the ex-con get a job and a house and he stop committing crimes and contributes legitimately to the economy. I think it could work - but I think people in the U.S. might have a hard time knowing tax money and job preference is given to criminals.
Your rates of success there are barely better then here and your economic system isn't all that different then ours.
Then again if you had the same access to guns that we have here your rates would drop to be as low as ours.- That is a opinion not a fact
Experts on the subjects covered. Dr. Scott A. Bonn, PhD Professor David Wilson Columbia's Paul Appelbaum and Harvard's Steven Pinker FBI Serial Killer Expert John Douglas (FBI Serial Crime Expert, John Douglas' book is called "Mindhunter". In it, Douglas recounts some of his cases involving several of the most notable serial killers of our time. He talks about the science behind criminal profiling and the patterns of behaviour adopted by perpetrators) Author and forensic psychology teacher Dr. Katherine Ramsland
These men were found to be sane at the time they committed their crimes
(committed his crimes in London)
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Also I'm not saying why I studied the subject but I will say my ex wife is still alive and well.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Well dumb it down for me cause it sounds like your saying that the majority of criminals can be rehabilitated.
That all killers are mentally insane.
That they are products of their environment or their social status.
Am I misreading you?
I need to smoke a bowl and a pepperoni hot pocket.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Quote: What I'm saying is that for many people, the conditions for which they were jailed were unfair - we can assume the same for some murder trials I think. An insane person who commits a murder and is jailed would be put in jail unfairly.
Quote: What I'm saying is that for many people, the conditions for which they were jailed were unfair - we can assume the same for some murder trials I think.
Key words in this statment "I think"
I've also said that mistakes do happen and people are gonna get locked up unfairly but you have yet to state what we are to do with people that commit murder insane or not.
Just your opinion with nothing to back it. There are more then enough studies to prove otherwise. The fact that most people that commit murder are not insane. Sure some are but not very often. Nothing is foolproof so some will get locked up. Have a better method of doing things then tell it.
Quote:
You keep repeating this, but the real world is only relative to where you are and what you choose to believe. Stating it over and over says absolutely nothing.
If you didn't keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over I wouldn't have to repeat myself would I?
Quote: As far as I understand, there has been a dramatic increase in prisons since the 1970s and this has failed to rehabilitate criminals.
Now you're repeating what I said. I've been saying all along that attempts to rehabilitate are dismal at best both here and there.
Quote: A simple google search pulls up a counter article with references to studies. The DSM is constantly evolving, there is mislabeling and all humans fall within some spectrum of illness. I would go so far to say that mental illness is still poorly understood and treated. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/are-all-murderers-mentally-ill/67295/
I may be starting my opinion, but all you're doing is appealing to authority.
A google search is going to give articles on both sides of the argument that was a dumb statment. That is why I gave a list of people considered the top of their field. You gave a article that goes back and forth on the subject.
Quote: Barbara R. Kirwin, a forensic psychologist and author who has also studied hundreds of murder defendants, as saying she'd found about 10 percent of them to have histories of childhood abuse. Kirwin said she'd seen "plenty" of people with normally competent brains who simply had a gross lack of empathy.
and then
Quote: Dr. Terry Kupers, a psychiatrist who specializes in forensic and correctional mental health issues, agrees. "In prison populations, it's known that 60-80% of prisoners have had serious physical and sexual abuse prior to their crimes and incarceration," he says. "And the prevalence of that is higher on death row than elsewhere in prisons."
This is getting a little boring so lets just put it this way. You have pretty much done nothing but give your opinion so lets hear your great idea on what we should do with people that commit murder wether insane or not. You have a better idea then keeping them locked away from the general population lets hear it.
Quote: I may be starting my opinion, but all you're doing is appealing to authority.
This comment is stupid at best. I simply got my information from the people listed above. Considered the top of their fields both here and in Europe. You have done nothing but state opinion and a article that goes back and fourth on the subject.
So this comment actually fits you better
Quote: but that does not validate your argument. There are many PhDs out there who say different things on the matter. So unless you are able to logically validate why you think your ideas are right, you probably don't know what your talking about.
I have yet to state my ideas or opinions but since you have done nothing but that now is my chance.
What I would do is far more cruel then what we are already doing. I personally don't go for that abused as a child, society was mean to me, head trauma, he screwed my wife or whatever the reason bullshit. Millions upon millions of others have gone threw the same and don't find the need to kill or commit crimes for that matter. So if one of my kids were to get murdered would I care if that person was insane, hell no. Would I care if that person was treated unjustly, hell no. Like I said this is just my opinion. The only people that get locked up unjustly for murder are the ones who got there and didn't commit a murder. The others insane or not are human garbage and should be treated as such. That includes people that have been so called rehabilitated as far as I'm concerned once a killer always a killer. They should never be allowed to be free again period. I don't believe in giving a break for any of the bullshit reasons we have discussed in this entire conversation. Yup as fucked up as my opinions are the one thing I do that you don't even come close to doing is consider the victim or the people who suffer because of their death.
So what exactly would you do with these people? Since you already said this -
Quote:
As far as I understand, there has been a dramatic increase in prisons since the 1970s and this has failed to rehabilitate criminals.
rehabilitating them isn't a option. Wether in jail or out most attempts to rehabilitate murderers have failed. I already named the largest and most successful attempt at doing this but since you missed it I'll say it again.
Quote: Just one of numerous trials is the Crominon project. Established in 1970 in New Zealand, the Criminon program consists of exact steps, each one bringing about precise changes in the individual. Growing out of the worldwide Narconon drug rehabilitation program3, Criminon now operates within corrections systems throughout the United States to rehabilitate criminals by restoring their sense of self-worth so that they can become productive members of society.
The centerpiece of the Criminon program covers 21 precepts that make up this non-religious, common sense moral code. Each precept is studied so that an inmate not only understands how it applies to his own life, but so he actually can utilize the precept to increase the survival potential of himself and others.
This has been the best attempt so far world wide and has had moderate success.
So for the millionth time what better method do you have then what is already going on now? I have yet to hear about a magical European cure to murder or a magical European method of rehabilitation.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Yeah it went off track but how much can you say about gay spider man
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
I have no idea how me and Tom got into this argument over murder and punishment but it was one of my favorite discussions I've had here.
I had a chance to get into it with somebody over something other then growing.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Quote: Sham87 said: You debater you! It was fun reading y'all posts.
Any new bud pics???
Not yet. I'm gonna take some in a few weeks to show what the Maxigro and Maxibloom I was posting about in the cultivation section can do. They are at 3 weeks now so I figure at about 6 weeks I'll start snaping a few.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?