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 Ped
Relax
Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 62
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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 Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26  [Re: GreenHorns]
#678890 - 07/21/13 03:18 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey Greenhorns,
Earlier in the thread, you said:
>> I would consider a fan that moves more air
It looks like you're quite correct. I'm having heat problems. With the an ambient temperature outside the tent of about 70F, the interior is edging into the high 80s. I went to the hydro store to ask about a higher volume fan, and the guy said something that didn't make any sense to me:
"It doesn't matter how much air you pull outta there and pass over the bulb, because the air you're pulling in from the outside is still going to be the same temperature."
Does that sound like it makes any sense? It seems like more airflow over the bulb = more heat expelled from the bulb before it radiates into the garden = less gained heat and faster expulsion = lower ambient temperature.
His solution was not to sell me a bigger fan, but a CO2 system instead. The CO2, he said, would help the plants tolerate more heat. When I mentioned that this has no bearing at all on root zone temps, which are also on the high side, he just kept insisting that more CO2 = more heat tolerance = no need for a fan that moves more than 171 CFM in a 190 CFM room.
Thoughts?
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GreenHorns
boulevardier
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#678891 - 07/21/13 03:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not too keen on co2 but I'm sure hawk or mag are. He's trying to sell is what it sounds like to me. More cfm more heat is removed from the bulb.
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wiggy wham wham wazzle
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budgrowerwannabe
Bum fighter
Registered: 01/28/12
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
#678892 - 07/21/13 04:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
GreenHorns said:
I'm not too keen on co2 but I'm sure hawk or mag are. He's trying to sell is what it sounds like to me. More cfm more heat is removed from the bulb.
 But if your just putting the hot air in the same room as your tent.air going into the tent will be what ever your room temp. is ?? Right or am I to high?
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GreenHorns
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
#678893 - 07/21/13 04:46 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah it'll heat that way too. Its best to vent it outside.
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wiggy wham wham wazzle
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Ped
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
#678894 - 07/21/13 04:52 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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>> But if your just putting the hot air in the same room as your tent.air going into the tent will be what ever your room temp. is ?? Right or am I to high?
Yeah of course. My bulb vents outside, though.
Right now, internal temperatures are about 5-10 degrees C (8-16 F) higher than the external temperature. It seems to me that the best way to mitigate this is to pass more air across the bulb, thereby decreasing the amount of heat gained from it, while simultaneously drawing more of the cooler external air into the space.
Internal temperature is a function of external temperature plus whatever heat is gained from the bulb. The less airflow over the bulb, the more heat is gained from its operation. The less air exchange inside the garden, the slower the expulsion of this gained heat. It follows therefore than more airflow equals less heat gained, that what ever heat is gained will be more efficiently displaced and extracted.
This seems like basic logic, but the guy at the hydro store would have me believe that removing more heat will not mean that less heat is gained. Unless I am seriously underestimating the radiant heat coming off these bulbs, and seriously overestimating the extractive efficiency of a doubled CFM, the guy at the store is either lying to me to make a profit, or glaringly under-qualified for his job, both of which are disappointing.
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Ped
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#678980 - 07/22/13 10:43 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think I'm developing a problem and could really use some advice.
All 5 of my Royal Medic plants seem to be suffering. The AK is just fine.
Specifically, the leaves of the Royal Medic plants are sagging, drooping. Toward the end of the lumen cycle, they drop considerably. I understand this is a normal part of preparing for night time, and the leaves do lift substantially when the light clicks back on, but they retain a consistently droopy look for the entire 18 hours. They sag so much that I've had to put down little squares of poly to keep the leaves from resting on the dirt and rotting away.
My first thought was that the soil was too damp, or not draining well, and that it would correct itself given a little time. Now seven days since the last watering, the problem seems to be worsening instead. The soil is still moist to the touch, certainly not wet, but the pots are considerably heavier than a bone-dry pot of the same size.
The AK, which has been exposed to identical conditions, seems healthy enough. Yet, all 6 plants seem to be growing a bit slow, seeming to prefer wide, bushy growth instead of upward, branching growth. The stems of all six plants have thickened considerably over the past few days, and seem basically healthy.
I first noticed this nearly 20 days ago. On July 4, a clear difference in the apparent foliar vitality of the AK was noticeable even in the first pair of post-embryonic leaves. I called attention to it with a photo in one of my log updates, asking if there was any cause for concern, but when nobody said anything I just concluded that it must be a genetic trait. Now that it's developed into what appears to be a situation of declining health, I'm eager to find out the why, what, and how's of understanding and correcting the problem.
Here's some pictures showing the chronology of this thing:
I should mention that on day 3 after the transplant, all six plants received more water than I had intended. This was because I made an error adjusting the water's pH, which was discovered when the runoff tested around 3.5, which is far too acidic. To prevent the acidic conditions from developing into a problem, I adjusted an additional gallon of water to a pH of 9 and distributed this evenly to all six plants, concentrating on the existing root zone.
In total, three gallons were used watering all six plants, which is 2 quarts (1.8L) committed to each 5 gallon pot.
Thanks in advance for any insights and advice!
Peace ~
Edited by Ped (07/22/13 11:11 PM)
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 resincoatedlungs
Brickweed Aficionado
Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 503
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#678987 - 07/23/13 02:33 AM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
In total, three gallons were used watering all six plants, which is 2 quarts (1.8L) committed to each 5 gallon pot.
1/2 gallon once a week per 5 gallon pot doesn't sound like enough water.
My guess would either be under-watering, the soil staying moist for too long because of the paper covering it, or just not fully soaking all of the roots and soil per watering from the small amount of water. I'm pretty new so wait until a more experienced grower chimes in, but it does look like a watering issue to me.
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Man Eater
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budgrowerwannabe
Bum fighter
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: resincoatedlungs]
#678989 - 07/23/13 04:51 AM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
resincoatedlungs said:
Quote:
In total, three gallons were used watering all six plants, which is 2 quarts (1.8L) committed to each 5 gallon pot.
1/2 gallon once a week per 5 gallon pot doesn't sound like enough water.
My guess would either be under-watering, the soil staying moist for too long because of the paper covering it, or just not fully soaking all of the roots and soil per watering from the small amount of water. I'm pretty new so wait until a more experienced grower chimes in, but it does look like a watering issue to me.
Water by weight man! Thats what I do .Sounds like not enough water when you water and too often. 4foot plants in full flower I was watering once a week but them big ass used that much. Your little bitches might not need water for two or as long as three weeks. Happen to me
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GreenHorns
boulevardier
Registered: 01/10/13
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
#678992 - 07/23/13 06:49 AM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Another reason why small jumps in pot size are more beneficial. At the size they are now a 1 gallon would have been easier to control water consumption rather than having a boggy perimeter and a dry center till the roots grow into the space. I still think they are too young to feed the AK might be ok with it but that purple may just be sensitive.
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wiggy wham wham wazzle
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Ped
Relax
Registered: 05/31/13
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
#679507 - 07/28/13 02:39 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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>> Another reason why small jumps in pot size are more beneficial.
The 7th "backup" seedling, which I will be maturing anyway, is now in a one gallon pot per your advice. I haven't used any nutrients at all throughout the lifecycle of that one. It's taken to the transplant well, but I'm concerned about the pale, verging-on-yellow colour in its leaves. It was this colour which prompted me to feed 1/4 nutes with the previous generation, and while that certainly greened up the leaves it also seemed to create other problems.
>> I still think they are too young to feed the AK might be ok with it but that purple may just be sensitive.
I just watered recently, this time without nutrients.
After more than a week without watering, the pots were starting to feel quite dry. Their weight was reaching parity with the dry control pot, and the top 3-4 inches were dry as could be. Prompted by this, I watered the AK and three of the Royals. The healthiest plants I decided to push back another day or two just to see.
The watered plants received 2L (0.5 gallons) each yesterday, and the same amount again today. That feels like not enough water--and there's been no runoff at all--but after all the languishing they went through last week, I'm being quite cautious.
Edited by Ped (07/28/13 03:12 PM)
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Ped
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#679515 - 07/28/13 03:13 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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July 28 update:
It's like there's just too much foliage. Some of the bottom leaves are virtually the same size as the rest of the plant. Inside, it is so dense that I've deployed skewers to force some foliage aside to let the light in. I've pruned off a healthy amount too, but it just keeps growing. Vertical growth is pretty slow, but the expansion of foliage is just relentless - is this typical? Is this desirable? I've heard people say that bushy plants are a good thing, but what good is bushiness if no light can get to the bush?
Day 21:
Day 22:
Day 23:
Topping
I gave the girls a top/FIM a few days ago. I'm not certain I did it correctly.
So that's the latest. Things seem OK - the plants seem healthy and happy, in spite of their apparently slow growth. I'll be installing a new fan tomorrow. It has double the flow capacity of the existing fan: this should finally bring the airflow up to an appropriate level.
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Edited by Ped (07/28/13 03:15 PM)
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GreenHorns
boulevardier
Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 1,195
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#679527 - 07/28/13 04:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Damn they look very healthy! The excess foliage is in no way bad. Most lower branches will be trimmed off anyway when they stretch in flower. Just keep letting them go to town.
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wiggy wham wham wazzle
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Ped
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
#679530 - 07/28/13 06:38 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sweet, that's good to hear. I guess I'll feed them next watering? Seems like I want to observe a healthy transpiration rate before I start feeding. Last time all the water just hang around in the pots and as Magash said, it no doubt contributed to my problems earlier.
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GreenHorns
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#679532 - 07/28/13 06:50 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah they seem quite lush and healthy now. By any standards in the veg stage ready for the nutes.
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wiggy wham wham wazzle
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Ped
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
#679788 - 07/30/13 02:23 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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>> By any standards in the veg stage ready for the nutes.
Yeah, they sucked up the meagre water I gave them so fast that it was time for another watering this morning. I gave them the nutes this time; so far they are loving it.
Ever since I installed the 435 CFM fan (previous fan 269), it's like night and day. Slow and stunted has become rapid and vibrant. Things have really taken off. No more heat problems either.
Humidity is a problem at 70%. It's constantly humid here. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that when it comes time to flower.
Day 25
This seedling has taken well after transplant and is now in the veg stage. I'm hoping she'll catch up with her sisters before it comes time to bloom.
This plant, which I had affectionately named "Runty", is beginning to defy her title. She's still a bit squatter than the rest, but she's rapidly erasing that distinction.
This is the AK47 auto. She's starting to preflower, I think.
Group photo.
Questions:
When the auto AK goes to flower, I don't intend to change the photoperiod, as I have plenty of vertical room to veg the Royals. With that said, is there any benefit to swapping out the FloraSun MH with the Eye Hortilux HPS at that time? If I change the spectrum more to the red side while keeping the 18/6 cycle, does this have any potential to confuse the rest of the plants? Or should I just let the AK flower under the MH? Will this hurt her yield?
Edited by Ped (07/30/13 02:31 PM)
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funnyfart
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#679907 - 07/31/13 10:35 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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man the really take off! 
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Ped
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: funnyfart]
#679928 - 07/31/13 01:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah totally...
My only problem right now is humidity. There's way too much, and it's relentless here. Right now the relative humidity outside the house is 85-90%. The dehumidifier inside the house brings this down to about 75-80%, running 24/7. Inside the tent it's between 65% and 75%. With the AK going to flower, I know this humidity level is asking for problems.
I bought some damp rid and put it around the intake. It basically does nothing at all. I don't know what else to do.
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GreenHorns
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#679960 - 07/31/13 03:29 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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They need the spectrum from the mh for the strong vegetative growth. And visa Versa. They will show preflowers through the rest of the veg process and still keep growing. I'd say keep doing what your doing another week or 2 then flip the cycle and bulbs. Some of them stretch real good make sure you've got at least height for them to double.
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wiggy wham wham wazzle
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Ped
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
#679965 - 07/31/13 04:44 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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>> They need the spectrum from the mh for the strong vegetative growth. And visa Versa. They will show preflowers through the rest of the veg process and still keep growing. I'd say keep doing what your doing another week or 2 then flip the cycle and bulbs. Some of them stretch real good make sure you've got at least height for them to double.
Right on. I've got about 4.5' vertical space yet, tons of room. One of my plants is an autoflower, though. It's going to start flowering pretty soon here I bet, no matter what bulb I've got going. I'm curious if I should put the HPS bulb in there to give it the spectrum it wants for that phase, or if that will cause a counterproductive amount of stretch in the other 5 plants before I go to flip them.
Seems like I definitely want to keep them pretty squat until they're ready for the flip. Unless flowering under an MH is a major faux-pas, I think I'll just let it do its thing.
To deal with the excess humidity, I was thinking about scaling up this carbon filter tek, using mesh baskets 14" tall and 12" diameter, and substituting silica gel in place of the carbon. The intent is to scrub the moisture from the intake in the same way that the carbon scrubs the odour from the exhaust.
I'll be building that tomorrow. It's a long shot, but better than spending more money on a damn power-sucking humidifier. Thoughts?
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GreenHorns
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
#679978 - 07/31/13 05:42 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh I forgot about the auto in there. Magash would know for sure about that one. My guess is hit it with the mh spectrum the whole way through if you can pull it off without negitiey effecting the other non autos.
You can buy dehumidifiers that pull the moisture from the room. You just empty a little reservoir every couple days or so when its full.
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wiggy wham wham wazzle
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