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OfflinePed
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Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 62
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Updated 08/30 - Almost Harvest Time! - Royal Medic, AK47 - 1 kW MH/HPS - First Grow (Medical) * 2
    #676520 - 06/28/13 07:40 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Updated August 30 || Day 56:


It's almost harvest time!  Well, at least for the auto-flowering AK-47.  The Royal Medics, which are easily 3-4x taller, are only just beginning to bloom. 

Most recent pics:








Original Post (full updates at bottom of thread):

Hey everyone,

Welcome to my first grow!

This will be a medical grow.

The main objective is to realize the highest possible concentrations of CBD, a known anti-proliferative (anti-cancer) agent.  Our principle motivation is to get in touch with the cultivation of this medicine, acquire the skill, and to deliver the loudest possible "fuck off" message to any and all cancer cells, as well as address a number of other medical concerns.

I've been lurking these boards for a while, posting here and there, soaking up as much information as I can.  Now the ball is rolling, and I'm excited to share this first grow with you all.

The Setup

- 19 sq. ft (151 cu. ft) grow room covered with black/white poly from top to bottom
- Digital ballast, dimmable, 650w, 750w, 1000w, SL
- 1000w MH (veg), 1000w HPS (flower)
- Cooltube reflector
- 6" Canfan + Carbon filter (200 CFM)
- 8x 20L (5 gal) pots
- Sunshine mix #4




The Genetics

 

There will be two strains cultivated on this first go-around.  As an avid trekkie, I'm tickled to have planted five Romulan seeds on June 26, my birthday.  Ten of these regular seeds were purchased from Single Marijuana Seeds Canada. This strain has a great reputation for its analgesic effects, and its sleep-inducing effect.  Update: of 10 seeds ordered, nine arrived intact, and only one germinated, promptly mutating and dying.  The vendor has cut off communication

Expected in the mail any day now are 5 feminized Royal Medic, purchased directly from the breeder.  Royal Medic is a high-CBD strain, a cross between Critical and Juanita La Lagrimosa.  This was the highest CBD strain (and thereby the most notably anti-cancer) I could find from a reliable source.  Update:  Royal Queen also included a bonus seed, an autoflowering AK.


Germination

I decided to germinate the first five directly in soil, as this came highly recommended.  While germination rates are not as predictable with this method, I'm told that successful sprouts tend to develop into stronger plants.  Using sunshine mix #4, I adjusted 1 litre of store-bought spring water to a pH of 6.5, poured it through a volume of soil, and tested the run off.  This returned a welcomed pH of 5.5.  Five styrofoam cups were gently packed with this moist, unsterilized mix, with seeds planted approximately 1 cm below the surface.  Update: This was a complete failure with the first 5 Romulan seeds.  So with the next batch I used paper towel method with a bit of H2O2, as fungus seemed to be the problem with the Romulan seeds. 

Only one Romulan seed popped.  The rest quickly succumbed to fungus, in spite of two aggressive oxidation treatments.  All of the Royal Queen seeds germinated quickly and healthily.






Help! I have no water! Update: On the advice of the community, I installed a reverse osmosis system.


I'll keep this updated.  Thanks for following!

Ped

Edited by Ped (08/29/13 10:25 PM)

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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #676624 - 06/30/13 10:12 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks guys for the input!

It's been four days and still no sprouts.  I finally gave in to my impatience, and using a sterilized pin I pushed aside some of the top soil.  To my relief, I saw that a few of the seeds had begun to split.  It's progress, albeit slow going.


>> I would consider a fan that moves more air.  My 1000w hps has a 430cfm and heats like a bastard still.

I would have preferred a larger fan as well.  However, the build was already significantly over budget and I could not justify the added expense.  On the plus side, I live in a cooler climate, and the room is situated against concrete walls which are about 75% under ground.  This makes for a much cooler space.

I did a dry run on the system through one 18/6 cycle, and found that the lumen cycle held steady at 26 C (78 F), while the dark cycle was actually a bit cool at 20 C (68 F).

I'm curious, is yours a cooltube/reflector or are you just blowing air under a bat wing?


>> I just fill up large containers with purified water from the machines at the stores for 25¢ a gallon.

How much water do your plants take?  I'm using 5 gallon pots.  What are you using?



>> I don't know how your finances are but when u can go for the osmosis system.

Yes, after much deliberation, I'll be making a considerable sacrifice in order to afford the RO system.  This project is already "too big to fail" (and certainly too important), and I'd rather my bank account suffer a bit than potentially delay the procurement of this medicine.


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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #676936 - 07/03/13 01:26 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

My very first sprout!  I've dreamed of this day for fifteen years.  If only this was purely for fun instead of gloomy medical woes.  It took longer than expected, and I was getting tired of staring at cups of dirt.  Finally, some green!



(I can't wait until I have some pics that aren't easily mistaken for a cup of coffee from a used car lot.)

Now that this sprout has appeared, should I raise it to the light?  Right now it's about 6 inches below the bulb.  Should I be trying to get it as close as possible?


The other four Romulans haven't shown any signs of making an appearance.  It's been a week since I dropped them directly into the soil.  Fearing the worst, I went ahead and started soaking the remaining 5 of those seeds on July 1st.  They've been in that paper towel for nearly three days now, and all that's happened is that they've darkened in colour.  What's up here?  Have I done something wrong?  Temperature is 25 (78 F).  I used a couple layers of regular paper towel soaked with sterile water from a medical supply shop (pH 5.5), and sandwiched it between a folded scrap of poly.

I'll be really disappointed if I don't get a least one fem Romulan plant out of ten seeds.  I've been really looking forward to that strain.

On the plus side, the Royal Medic seeds came in today.  Royal Queen Seeds dropped a bonus seed in there, an AK auto.  This time around, I'm soaking them for 24 hours in a cup of water, after which I'll place them in a paper towel and wait for taproots before I put them in soil.


That little propagator I built turned out to be less of an asset and more of a pain in the ass.  The air stone kept getting clogged, such that I was having doubts about there being enough fresh air entering the environment.  A couple times, it got up to 90+% rH and 30 degrees (86 F).  I scrapped it.

In it's place I built a loosely constructed box out of styrofoam, ramming the CFL light socket into the top. There's an exhaust vent at the top for rising air, and holes in the front wall for passive intake, partially covered with wet paper towel for humidity.  Currently it's at 74% rH, 24 degrees (75 F).








Questions:

Is it too soon to say the other four Romulan seeds are toast, considering that only one of these has sprouted after eight days?

What does it mean that the remaining five of these seeds have shown no perceptible changes after nearly three days in damp paper towel (other than their darkening colour)?

Should I try to get the one sprout as close to the light as possible, or should I let it settle in for a while first?

Is there anything I should be aware of as far as raising an auto-flowering plant under the same bulb as my photoperiod plants?

Man, I haven't had this "lol I'm a noob" sensation since the first time I went through the PF Tek.  That was back in 1999!  Anyway, just as soon as I'm ready to fire up the HID, I'll post some pics of the grow room.  :peace:


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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: funnyfart]
    #677039 - 07/04/13 12:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I can't put them infront of the window because I'm in an area that gets a lot of rain during this time of year.  There's still another couple weeks of relentless gloom ahead.  The internal temperature of main floor also fluctuates a lot between day and night, especially when the sun makes an appearance.


>> i acutally don't know why their not comeing out

This morning, the last of the Romulan Seeds looked pretty dismal.  They're nearly black.  Apparently this indicates a fungal attack.

I germinated the Royal Medic and AK seeds in exactly the same way (6 in total) - sterile water, paper towel, folded in poly.  In less than 24 hours, 3 of them had popped.  Now, about 36 hours later, 5/6 have popped.  The first three are ready for soil already, and the remaining unpopped seed (AK) looks about ready to burst.

Suffice to say, my impression is that the Romulan seeds came with a fungus or fungals spores attached to them, or had been stored in such a way that they were highly susceptible to fungal attack.  Once the seeds from Royal Queen arrived, I could see a difference between them immediately.  The RQ seeds looked more vibrant, more vital.  They just had a healthier look to them.  Certainly they're living up to that impression.

In a last ditch effort to get some Romulan germination happening, I dropped them in a glass of H2O/H2O2 solution at 1.5% v/v, bubbling the solution rigorously to encourage H2O2 decomposition.  After 1 hour, I introduced an equivalent volume of heavily alkalized water at a rate of 10mL/minute to critically accelerate the liberation of oxygen, and drained this through a coffee filter.  The aim was to aggressively oxidize any invasive organisms without over-exposing the seeds.  The seeds came out looking OK, and I put them back in paper towel about 12 hours ago, this time using pH-adjusted water at 0.05% v/v H2O2.  We'll see what happens.

Can you tell I'm more into chemistry than I am into gardening?  Hopefully this proves to be an asset and not a hinderance as I gain experience.


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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #677062 - 07/04/13 11:03 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> If you don't see any progress I would hit up the breeder and see what they will do for you.

Yeah, I agree.


Royal Medic, at 48 hours:




Romulan, at 10 days:



Same method.


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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #677206 - 07/06/13 01:13 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Stretching?  Question:

Every time I check on the seedlings, the stems seem to have increased more noticeably than the emergence of post-cotyledon leaves.  I've been reluctant to bring them closer to the light, as I don't want to stress them out, but at the same time I don't want them to stretch.  How much stretching is normal and how much is too much?  Considering that the CFL's are quite cool, giving off almost no heat -- is it better to err on the side of elongated stems, or on the side of too many lumens?  At the present time, the bulbs are 3-4 inches from the seedlings.


The RO system was installed today, which has been quite a relief.  No more water woes.

Here's some family photos:







The curling of the cotyledons seems to suggest the soil is too wet.  Is there a means to correct this other than time?

All but one of the seedlings here (the one in the smaller cup) are just 80 hours out of the envelope they were shipped in.  My impression is that these seeds are above average in quality, but seeing as how the dismally failed Romulan seeds are my only frame of reference, I'm not confident in my objectivity.  Let me know what you think using the poll below.

The frontmost left seedling of the lot (in the smaller cup) is the Romulan.  That one is 14 days from sowing (June 26).  The others are all Royal Medic, save for the rearmost seedling on the right, which is the auto AK.  In just 80 hours (July 3), they've caught up with and are rapidly charging past the Romulan.

The Romulan seems to be settling in nicely, deepening in colour and firming up well, but it's slow goings.  The remainder of the Romulan seeds are now visibly corrupt, my attempts to rescue them sadly in vain.  I guess I'll have to whip up a new signature and change the name of this post.  I emailed the vendor about it yesterday.  We'll see what they say.


The Medic/AK seeds came alive with such thrust that the emerging taproot forced the seed right up through the soil and into the open air, the husk dangling from the hooked ends of their taproots, giving the appearance of streetlights.  This happened to all but one of them.  Is this common?  Did I plant them too shallow?

Without thinking to take a photo, when I discovered this I immediately sprinkled some of the leftover pasteurized soil around the exposed portion of the taproots, misted them sparingly, and then added sufficient soil to even out the surface.  Instinct told me that the part of the seedling looking like it should be below ground ought to be made so immediately.  Was this the right call?

Even after the cotyledons had decisively emerged, the husks were reluctant to let go.  My feeling was that they've probably served their purpose, and that the seedlings were exerting themselves unnecessarily under their load.  Using a pair of H2O2-cleaned tweezers, and a great deal of caution, I carefully twisted the husks free, discarding them. 
 


A little bit of what looks like some sort of embryonic material is still clinging to this one.  It looks like healthy living tissue, which is why I decided to leave it there for the time being.  Is that the right call?

Poll: How are the Royal Medic and AK seeds performing so far, now at the 80 hour mark?
The quality of this seed stock is:
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 07/05/13 09:05 PM until the end of time

View the results of this poll



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Edited by Ped (07/06/13 01:57 AM)

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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS [Re: LONGPIG]
    #677370 - 07/07/13 09:37 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I do have that tendency.  It's simply that I want to get the best results, not overlook anything, and most of all I want to gain a complete understanding of the process.

So, today was a really hot day, and to check on the temps in there I lifted my CFL's and peered inside.  I dropped the fixture.  They didn't hit the seedlings, but both bulbs shattered.  So now I have no light.

So I fired up the metal halide.  It's running at 600 watts right now.  Not wanting to bombard the girls too early, I have it at 30" height.  I've read so many times to wait until they're well established before putting them under an HID, but it's midnight, this happened right at the start of today's light cycle, and I have no alternative in the house.

Thoughts?


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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS [Re: GreenHorns]
    #677505 - 07/09/13 04:20 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> Just keep an eye on the distance and adjust till you get new bulbs. You doing CFL or T5?

I had been using Ottlite CFL's, and they were OK.  The plan was to run out and buy another pair, but after one light cycle under the MH the plants look so vital that I think I'll hold off.  I moved the light down from 30" to 25", and after a few days I'll start bumping it down 2-3"/day, per the advice from Cooked.

Currently they are under a 1000 watt MH running on a dimmable ballast set to 600 watts.

Leaves are quite firm, open, and green, but they don't seem to be eager to jam out more of 'em.  I tend to think this means they're putting energy into their root structure, which would be a positive.


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Edited by Ped (07/09/13 04:26 PM)

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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS [Re: Ped]
    #677507 - 07/09/13 04:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Here are some pics of the setup and grow room, starting from the outside and working in.  Its a bit cramped in there, and difficult to take clear shots, but I think you'll get the picture:




Workstation.




This is the intake.  There's a lot of dust and debris down there, and bugs, so I made this little filter box out of a rubbermaid and some cut up filter medium.




Just a digital ballast.




How it looks from the outside.  I made a little roll-up blind out of another piece of poly to contain some of the leak from the zipper.  It's rolled up right now, so you can't see it.






These two were taken yesterday.  This is how the seedlings looked after I broke the CFL's and put them under the MH.






This is how they looked 24 hours later at the beginning of the next cycle.








Overhead views.  The carbon filter needn't be attached yet, so it isn't.

You'll see I those Grow-yo hook things.  I don't recommend these, and I don't trust them.  That's why I added a safety line to the reflector.  If any component of the hanging system should fail, no disaster will come of it.






This is under the table.  The table is inclined about 1/2", it's surface covered in a "tray" of poly which will conveniently funnel runoff into this handy little bin.


That's all for now!


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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS [Re: COOKED101]
    #677509 - 07/09/13 05:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> Remember I'm only on a 400w mh so there is a diffference in light intensity to inches away from plant from a 400 to a 600, and as I said its only my first time indoor so as much as I like to share info, I'm not sure if it should be taken as sound advice, I'm not bumping my down till I get some more growth.

Thanks for this.  It's my first grow too, indoor or out.  They responded so well to the MH that I thought I'd bump it down to find the lower limit at this stage.  I've been watching them carefully.  They're 15 hours into today's 18, and everything seems top notch.  Unless they "seem hungry" (I have no idea how I'll ascertain this), the light stays at 25" until one or two more sets of leaves come out.

One thing that's stressing me a bit is knowing when to water.  Having been told so many time that the classic downfall is to over water, I've been holding off even though the instinct is not to.  The surface of the soil is quite dry--I gave it a gentle mist yesterday--and my "test cup" (which has never been watered) still seems reasonably lighter.  They look dry - but weigh damp. 

Does it make sense to suppose that if I continue waiting before I water this will encourage the plant to go "searching", thereby promoting the growth of a solid root structure?


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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #677572 - 07/10/13 06:53 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> If you don't see any progress I would hit up the breeder and see what they will do for you. Seems like obvious genetic defect if just that strain is not germinating.

I emailed Single Marijuana Seeds Canada, actually a UK outfit, about the total failure of their seeds as compared to the immediate vitality of another vendor's seeds. 

They told me that they are not able to discuss matters of germination, that they do not condone germination, and that my account was to be terminated due to breach of terms.  What an asinine, unnecessarily severe and all-too-convenient policy.  Canada has an extensive network of certified medical growers and suppliers, who are 100% within the law: what's the need to shut down all correspondence about perfectly legal activities?  Is this typical? 

On the plus side, everything's rolling along great with the Royal Medic and the AK from RQS.  After a day and a bit seeming only to bask in the light, now they're all putting out some more leaves.

7 days from seed:






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OfflinePed
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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: resincoatedlungs]
    #677710 - 07/12/13 01:23 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

(Day 8)

My first seedling has died.

Please join me in a moment of silence.



The first seedling to come into this earth under my care has perished to fungal attack, just as her 9 companions did before even germinating.

This was surely disappointing, and I had a heavy heart.  Not only was I greatly looking forward to the Romulan strain, and not only did I orient this entire thread around it (revisions forthcoming), but this first seedling was symbolic, sort of like the first turn of the shovel at the construction site of a new hospital. 

Yet, I'm choosing to see it in a positive light:  no cultivator enjoys perfect success always, and this doomed little seedling has hopefully taken the brunt of the inevitable misfortune this first go around.  For this reason, and because I'm an unabashed nerd, I named this seedling Kimara before discarding it, after a Romulan senator who gave her up her freedom to protect that of others.


...moving on now...


This is probably nothing of consequence, but since knowing more is probably better than knowing less...




I noticed at the end of today's cycle that the leaves of all 5 of the Royal Medics (left) have gone from flat to slightly convex, while the auto-AK (right) has gone from flat to slightly concave.  All the plants look healthy and showed strong growth today, but nonetheless this is a noteworthy shift into which I'd love some insight.

Since all of these seeds come from the same vendor and have been exposed to identical conditions, and since to the best of my limited knowledge they all seem healthy and happy, my first instinct is to suppose that this difference has something to do with genetics, whether this has to do with the physical characteristics of the strains themselves, or with how they respond to the environment they've been nurtured under.

The Royal Medic is an incida-dominant hybrid, while the AK is a sativa-dominant with the obligatory spalsh of ruderalis.  Do these facts account for this difference in appearance at this early stage?  Or is there another factor(s)?

Preferring to be safe than sorry, I added 2.5" between them and the 600 watt MH, and tilted the circulation fan slightly up to skim an even gentler breeze over them.

Today was the first watering since the initial soak prior to planting.  Thanks very much to those who offered advice on this earlier.  The cups were still heavier than the bone-dry control cup, but it was becoming difficult to discern between them.  The top inch to two inches was very dry.

After adding 20 drops of H2O2 and 1 drop of SuperThrive to 1 litre (1 quart) of RO water, and after adjusting to a pH of 6.5 pH, the solution was bubbled for 6 hours to liberate the oxidizer, hopefully arriving at oxygen-rich and contaminant-free water.  I watered sparingly, quite consciously erring on the side of too little, as it is obviously much easier to correct for not enough than it is to correct for too much. 

No nutrients this time.  I figure the 1/4 strength DNF added during soil prep probably remains quite sufficient at this early stage, as it stands to reason that the roots are only now beginning their quest, it being just 48 hours since the first non-embryonic leaves came fully online. 

I feel a definite shift in the whole experience thus far.  This is fun.  In the beginning, I was seeking information like a relentless machine, constantly hunting for insights.  Now--if I can indulge the anthropomorphism--it's as though these little seedlings are communicating with me, telling me what they need, teaching me how it all works.  They're not even out of their party cups and they're already helping me relax!

Thanks all for following the journal, and for all the input you've offered and will offer.


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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
    #677906 - 07/14/13 03:17 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Day 10

So pretty..







(Royal Medic)




(AK)


Transplanting's been on my mind.  They are sucking up water much faster now, and they're giving off this "established" vibe.  It seems like the right choice to transplant just before the roots encounter the walls of the 12 oz cups, but not so early that their medium crumbles away upon extraction.  If only I knew how the plant's growth above soil reflected the growth below it.  Two hours on Google have revealed that either I've already waited too long, or that I should wait another two weeks.  The expert opinion seems conclusive:  until I shouldn't wait to transplant, I definitely should.  :justdontknow:

2-4 days, I think.


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Edited by Ped (07/14/13 03:25 AM)

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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: TomCollins]
    #678303 - 07/16/13 09:28 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> I would wait until you see some rooting through the plastic up against the wall close to the bottom.

The day after your post, three of the pots showed little roots poking through the holes at the bottom.  I pushed the button.  The timing seemed perfect, as there were straight roots trailing down the sides against the wall of the cups.  The soil was quite soild, holding together well during transplant.  Everything went quite smoothly. 


Day 11 (immediatley before and immediately after transplant)







5 gallon pots, 1/4 nutes. 


Day 12 (today)

Some of them seem to be showing early signs of nitrogen deficiency - very slight yellowing in the leaves.  I'm not sure if that's just a sign of stress from the transplant, or if I've been underfeeding.  From the very beginning, I have been very ginger with the nutrients, as underfeeding is easier to correct than overfeeding.  Thankfully, I kept the soil only lightly moistened for transplant.  Tomorrow they should be good for a feed, and I'll bump up the nutes a bit.

I've been trying to beef up the stems a bit by keeping the fan on them, at least partially.  They don't seem to like it.  Every time they get the fan, they start to look all droopy.  When I shut off the fan, they perk right back up.








Edited by Ped (07/16/13 09:35 PM)

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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #678334 - 07/16/13 11:00 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> That's a bit younger than I would be moving around and feeding anything other than water. Might be a bit of shock.

How much younger? 

My soil is sterilized and my water is RO.  So I gotta have some nutes, no?


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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #678629 - 07/18/13 08:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> At this stage, it would probably be wise to give your plants a mild solution (1/4th strength) for the next week and then bring them up to the regular dose.

I took your advice; so far things are looking pretty good.  The yellowing has given way to more green; hopefully this is a sign that the nutes are at least approaching their needs.

I've been pHing the water to about 7.5, thinking that the soil will bring this down a point, putting me in the target range.  The runoff tested at a pH of 4, which was a bit of a "yikes" moment.  I brought up some water up to pH 9 introduced a healthy volume of it.  Hopefully this prevents/corrects any pH problems before they become plant problems.


>> For me personally I start in solo cups until the roots take it over and outgrow it then move to 1 gallon. Once they are situated in the 1 gal I introduce at about 1/2 strength but I also use hot soils so its not really needed till they start exploding.

Yeah, I was trying to time it such that they were coming out of the solo cups at a time when the medium was sufficiently consolidated, but with a minimum amount of root mass exposed or abraded during the transplant.  The timing was perfect for that strategy - whether or not this is the best strategy, I don't know.  They seem alright though.


Day 13







This one's always been kinda runty.




The auto-AK has been a champ, of the 6 plants it was the only one which seemed to not even notice it had been transplanted.


Day 14









Runty looks like she's gonna stay runty.



I dropped the light down to 16" today, and brought the wattage up to 750.  They seem to be loving it, but the temperature got a little on the high side, at 29 C (84 F).

If you lean in real close, they're starting to smell real pretty~  :geordinod:


--------------------

Edited by Ped (07/18/13 09:08 PM)

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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #678890 - 07/21/13 03:18 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Greenhorns,

Earlier in the thread, you said:

>> I would consider a fan that moves more air

It looks like you're  quite correct.  I'm having heat problems.  With the an ambient temperature outside the tent of about 70F, the interior is edging into the high 80s.  I went to the hydro store to ask about a higher volume fan, and the guy said something that didn't make any sense to me:

"It doesn't matter how much air you pull outta there and pass over the bulb, because the air you're pulling in from the outside is still going to be the same temperature."

Does that sound like it makes any sense?  It seems like more airflow over the bulb = more heat expelled from the bulb before it radiates into the garden = less gained heat and faster expulsion = lower ambient temperature.

His solution was not to sell me a bigger fan, but a CO2 system instead.  The CO2, he said, would help the plants tolerate more heat.  When I mentioned that this has no bearing at all on root zone temps, which are also on the high side, he just kept insisting that more CO2 = more heat tolerance = no need for a fan that moves more than 171 CFM in a 190 CFM room.

Thoughts?


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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
    #678894 - 07/21/13 04:52 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> But if your just putting the hot air in the same room as your tent.air going into the tent will be what ever your room temp. is ?? Right or am I to high?

Yeah of course.  My bulb vents outside, though.



Right now, internal temperatures are about 5-10 degrees C (8-16 F) higher than the external temperature.  It seems to me that the best way to mitigate this is to pass more air across the bulb, thereby decreasing the amount of heat gained from it, while simultaneously drawing more of the cooler external air into the space.

Internal temperature is a function of external temperature plus whatever heat is gained from the bulb.  The less airflow over the bulb, the more heat is gained from its operation.  The less air exchange inside the garden, the slower the expulsion of this gained heat.  It follows therefore than more airflow equals less heat gained, that what ever heat is gained will be more efficiently displaced and extracted.

This seems like basic logic, but the guy at the hydro store would have me believe that removing more heat will not mean that less heat is gained.  Unless I am seriously underestimating the radiant heat coming off these bulbs, and seriously overestimating the extractive efficiency of a doubled CFM, the guy at the store is either lying to me to make a profit, or glaringly under-qualified for his job, both of which are disappointing.


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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: Ped]
    #678980 - 07/22/13 10:43 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I think I'm developing a problem and could really use some advice.

All 5 of my Royal Medic plants seem to be suffering.  The AK is just fine.

Specifically, the leaves of the Royal Medic plants are sagging, drooping.  Toward the end of the lumen cycle, they drop considerably.  I understand this is a normal part of preparing for night time, and the leaves do lift substantially when the light clicks back on, but they retain a consistently droopy look for the entire 18 hours.  They sag so much that I've had to put down little squares of poly to keep the leaves from resting on the dirt and rotting away.

My first thought was that the soil was too damp, or not draining well, and that it would correct itself given a little time.  Now seven days since the last watering, the problem seems to be worsening instead.  The soil is still moist to the touch, certainly not wet, but the pots are considerably heavier than a bone-dry pot of the same size. 

The AK, which has been exposed to identical conditions, seems healthy enough.  Yet, all 6 plants seem to be growing a bit slow, seeming to prefer wide, bushy growth instead of upward, branching growth.  The stems of all six plants have thickened considerably over the past few days, and seem basically healthy.

I first noticed this nearly 20 days ago.  On July 4, a clear difference in the apparent foliar vitality of the AK was noticeable even in the first pair of post-embryonic leaves.  I called attention to it with a photo in one of my log updates, asking if there was any cause for concern, but when nobody said anything I just concluded that it must be a genetic trait.  Now that it's developed into what appears to be a situation of declining health, I'm eager to find out the why, what, and how's of understanding and correcting the problem.

Here's some pictures showing the chronology of this thing:







I should mention that on day 3 after the transplant, all six plants received more water than I had intended.  This was because I made an error adjusting the water's pH, which was discovered when the runoff tested around 3.5, which is far too acidic.  To prevent the acidic conditions from developing into a problem, I adjusted an additional gallon of water to a pH of 9 and distributed this evenly to all six plants, concentrating on the existing root zone. 

In total, three gallons were used watering all six plants, which is 2 quarts (1.8L) committed to each 5 gallon pot.

Thanks in advance for any insights and advice!

Peace ~

Edited by Ped (07/22/13 11:11 PM)

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Re: Medical Grow - Romulan, Royal Medic - 1000 watt MH/HPS - June 26 [Re: GreenHorns]
    #679507 - 07/28/13 02:39 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

>> Another reason why small jumps in pot size are more beneficial.

The 7th "backup" seedling, which I will be maturing anyway, is now in a one gallon pot per your advice.  I haven't used any nutrients at all throughout the lifecycle of that one.  It's taken to the transplant well, but I'm concerned about the pale, verging-on-yellow colour in its leaves.  It was this colour which prompted me to feed 1/4 nutes with the previous generation, and while that certainly greened up the leaves it also seemed to create other problems.


>> I still think they are too young to feed the AK might be ok with it but that purple may just be sensitive.

I just watered recently, this time without nutrients.

After more than a week without watering, the pots were starting to feel quite dry.  Their weight was reaching parity with the dry control pot, and the top 3-4 inches were dry as could be.  Prompted by this, I watered the AK and three of the Royals.  The healthiest plants I decided to push back another day or two just to see.

The watered plants received 2L (0.5 gallons) each yesterday, and the same amount again today.  That feels like not enough water--and there's been no runoff at all--but after all the languishing they went through last week, I'm being quite cautious.


Edited by Ped (07/28/13 03:12 PM)

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