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zzzzzz
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Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed
#659526 - 02/18/13 07:56 PM (12 years, 5 days ago) |
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Seeds were planted Dec. 18 and Dec. 25. Sorry I'm starting this journal late but I'll try to be complete and thorough.
First attempt was in Miracle Grow potting mix and ended half-assed due to conflict with partner, who has NO knowledge or care but has THE PLACE! He also made everything unnecessarily complex and difficult. They got spider mites because he brought them in from outdoor vegetable garden and he consistently under-watered them (thought starving them for water made them stronger!?!). Then he harvested them too early and dried them too quickly. We ended up with 2oz from about 12 plants. Well, I can't give him all the blame since I absenced myself. We've worked things out and I'm fully in charge of this grow, so I'm over there at least every other day to inspect, prune, etc.
This is a super budget grow with second-hand and home-made T8 fixtures, in 4-5 gal plastic buckets in a 4'x5' area. Half the bulbs are 3000K and half are 6500K. The only REAL money is in the bulbs. BTW, that's 50,400 lumens in 20 sq. ft. or just over 2500 LUX (?)
I've read a shitload here and elsewhere and I'm violating some rules, at least according to a lot of the "common" wisdom. 
I re-used the spent MG potting mix from last grow, re-invigorating it with home-made worm castings (25%) and coated dolomite. I used fresh MG in one bucket to get a comparison.
We started with 6 buckets and 25 plants. My "buddy" started his bag seeds in a 6" pot, en-masse and told me about it a week later! I then pulled out my 7 seeds I had saved from quality weed (you know, a seed every couple ounces kind of weed) that I had been saving for years. His is from generic so-so weed that's full of seeds ($50/quarter weed). So, mine started a week later than his. I started mine in single starter-packs.
Surprisingly, the traumatic transplanting didn't seem to bother the plants too much. I split them in groups. 5 of mine germinated and one died. In total, we had 25 plants! Not really the way I wanted but he's a bone-head and insisted we plant them all.
Some were culled due to being out-competed (I expected this). One plant busted out in male flowers at about 4 weeks. Others displayed their sex and widely varying ages, one of which JUST showed itself after 2 weeks of flowering!
So, we're down to 11 females in 4 buckets. At least I hope they're JUST females. I'll keep an eye for hermie traits.
Some of the plants took off like crazy and, to keep everything even, I've experimented with LST and HST. I was SURE some of the taller ones would be male, but they turned out to be female! Many branches too!
ALL of them look to be Indica dominant, if not totally. Please judge for yourself. The plants from my seeds (3 females from 4 plants)are showing the most aggressive flowering.
Since the goal is to go on the cheap, I'm using MG Bloom Booster at 1/2 strength. To the point of flowering, nothing has looked nutrient deficient, so the initial mix apparently was sufficient. I also have epsom salts on hand in case of Mg deficiency. They've received two waterings now with the half-strength nute mix. Other than that all they've received is straight tap water that's sat out for several days to a week to air out.
I am not a complete novice when it comes to growing, having gardened quite a bit in the past. I also have a have some knowledge of biology.
Let's see ... what else? Trying CO2 supplementation but we've had to keep the door open due to high humidity from rapid growth as of recent. We have an electric heater on thermostat but haven't needed it much since winter has been mild.
First photo is of entire setup at 4-5 weeks from planting seeds (or 3-4 weeks post germination). Second photo is of a primary leaf on 2-14, and the last photos are of a male I culled on 2-14 showing internode distance and overall height at two months. Last photo is dated today (2-18) and is the space with thee of the remaining four buckets/11 plants. Very short, no? I figure it's due to lots and lots of light.
Thank you! Comments and questions appreciated!
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Following pictures are as of today, 6 and 7 weeks respectively, two weeks into flower. Second picture is MG and has one of the biggest plants. Third one is the younger and of better lineage. Note more flowers.
Edited by zzzzzz (03/11/13 04:03 AM)
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/18x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#659546 - 02/18/13 11:15 PM (12 years, 5 days ago) |
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I found TWO leaves with this presentation. Both of them were from very low, near the soil. As you can see from other pictures, the plants look very healthy otherwise.
Is this just normal senescence?
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/18x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#659622 - 02/19/13 03:49 PM (12 years, 4 days ago) |
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The further I get into this I notice what appears to be a wide range of genetics from the bag seed. Some have narrower leaves and some have wider leaves. I do have an understanding of genetics and figure open pollination allows all kinds of genetics to enter the picture.
With that in mind, I suppose harvesting will NOT be all at once.
Also, since some of these have a LOT of branching, is it recommended to harvest the top bits and let the lower branches to continue to be harvested later?
These girls are really stretching. Watered yesterday and they've grown an inch since then. Wow!
Some more pictures: 1st is HST from overly large plant ... nearly busted in half but healed nicely with many large branches. 2nd and 3rd pictures intended to show stem size and vigor.
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Oh, the stuff sprouting is tomatillos and tomatoes sprouting from vermicompost.
Edited by zzzzzz (02/19/13 04:07 PM)
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/18x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: PoloDown]
#660074 - 02/23/13 08:56 PM (12 years, 13 hours ago) |
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A couple more pics. Not keeping exact timing on these because there won't be an exact repeat happening since no cloning, and it's bagseed that is showing a variety of genetic dispositions.
Anyway, about 2 weeks into 12/12. Runoff pH, BTW, has been just over 6. How is it I can have such fantastic growth with cheap soil/fertilizers, tap water, and fluorescent lights? 
They're really starting to stretch. I have to raise the lights every day!
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Addition: Addition: These all were in vegetation 7 and 8 weeks before moving to 12/12. I wanted to veg sooner but many of the plants hadn't shown their sex yet, so the last plant finally gave evidence of pre-flower after 7 weeks. Strangely, the younger plants (the better bagseed ... where you find a seed every couple ounces or so) showed sooner than the cheap stuff. So that means we just completed two weeks of flowering. 6 more weeks or so!
Edited by zzzzzz (02/25/13 12:19 PM)
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/18x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
#660238 - 02/25/13 08:59 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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More pictures. Some plants are huge and others not so. Several of them have 10-12 full-size branches that reach the top and form a canopy. The random genetics are showing themselves. The tallest plants are 2 ft. and the shortest are 1 ft. Remember, that's 11 plants in 4 buckets (3x3 and 1x2). It's just getting difficult to keep the lights even now with the various heights.
I am hesitant to do any more topping and there's nowhere to go with LST or HST anymore since I'm running out of light in the 4x4 ft grow area. I could spread the lights out further or add more lights.
I took out a bunch of the lower growth that won't make much of anything due to lack of light. Not quite lollypopped (but I'd need much older plants for that, no?) but getting close to that.
Pictures show flower development, general health, and overall height. The yellow bucket with human body in picture is MG and is some of the healthier looking plants. Everyone got fert. today at 1/2 strength.
Leaf appearance would suggest no nutrient problems right? See first post for soil composition and fertilizer choice.
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/18x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
#661058 - 03/04/13 01:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Week 4 of flower starting ... 5 or more to go ....
I read read read too but haven't found any specific info regarding my particular issue at this time, which is the wildly varying bagseed genetics I'm dealing with. Some of these are stretching like crazy. some are getting dense. Other's ain't doing much at all. The stretchers are bothering me the most. BUT, if those tall stems fill in I'm gonna be a happy camper. I'm just going to have to harvest each plant as it becomes ready. What I thought was a bunch of mostly indica dominant plants ... I don't know anymore. Some of them are starting to resemble sativas more than indicas so this thing might get crazy ...
Currently running about 63K Lumens, half 6500K and half 3000K. Flowering stretch internodes are an inch or less and sturdy, thick stems.
If I had to buy all these fluorescent fixtures, I think I might as well have invested in a couple HPS units. BUT, the fluoro lights have the advantage of adjusting more accurately to the varying heights of the bagseed. From 1 ft . runt to 30" monsters.
The last batch of pictures I took aren't so great. I'm usually in too big a hurry to get out of there so just snap and shoot instead of setting up. Perhaps I'll get some good shots next time.
BTW, Wannabe, that "red" plant is filling in nicely ... probably has the densest buds of all plants so far. I can only IMAGINE how full these are going to be after 5 more weeks!
First picture is overview looking into the closet. You can see the varying heights of the fixtures.
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Here's one of the 10-12 branch "super stretchers" 
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Stretcher closeup (look at the THICKNESS of those stems!):
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Bud closeup (which?):
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Ditto (Red pheno).
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Here's Red closer. Photos just don't show the bud development very well:
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Overview of the three of the four pots individually:
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Thanks again for posting, Wannabe. I wouldn't be on here if there isn't any participation/encouragement.
Edited by zzzzzz (03/04/13 02:06 PM)
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budgrowerwannabe
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/18x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#661078 - 03/04/13 05:13 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hell yea man all t8s for flower great job I think your getting more stretch then norm thow because of them I bet you cant wait to try that ? Did you get a scope?
 these are all bag seed I keep them all at the same height just have to spend more time with them.
Edited by budgrowerwannabe (03/04/13 05:25 PM)
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/18x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#661389 - 03/07/13 12:54 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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HSTd some longer flower stems on one of the two large, tall plants. The stems just bent right over 90 degrees or more without cracking or breaking anything.
I know people will say "no!" but I'm just experimenting. I can't imagine, unless the stems actually break and die, that there will be a significant decrease in yield.
Anyway, I have another, almost exact phenotype that I left alone for comparison. It will be fun to see any differences.
Does anyone think those tall plants may be Sativa dominant? The shorter plants are flowering more prolifically, and these other two giants are stretching like mother-fuckers (with VERY CLOSE internodes ... just rapid growth 5th week of flower).
These are the bad boys I HSTd, 4-6 inches/internodes down. 
Updated pics to follow.
Edited by zzzzzz (03/07/13 11:10 PM)
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#662020 - 03/12/13 05:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Shit shit shit shit shit.
I planned on a photo update butbutbut wait! Two days ago I was looking the girls over and noticed a few seeds here and there. I looked everybody over but couldn't find ballsacks. Today I'm looking more closely since there are more seeds and, while pinch a lower bud point from a stem of the BEST PLANT OF THEM ALL, I see a wisp of dust and a little spent ballsack stuck to my finger.
Yep, the juiciest, best-smelling, densest nug plant of the whole shebang is a hermi! Fuck!
Pictures show whole plant minus most of the fan leaves, and the two nugs are from the ends of the lowest branches. They weigh 7g fresh. Very DENSE. I'm probably gonna quick dry this for smoking. The rest of it is drying properly.
Strangely, I was lamenting not having a clone of this plant because it is so nice, right before I find the ballsacks. Nice how they were hiding under the very bottom of the buds. And I had been watching for hermi traits all along too!
Now all my weed's gonna have seeds. Shite!
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: Maestro]
#662207 - 03/13/13 03:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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I see. I'm feeling a little better about it.
Here's a day's drying at 68 degrees and 40-45% humidity.:
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I did some quick dry just to check it out. I think waiting is better (but being not being able to get high is a drag).
Rest of the plant is drying in toto elsewhere.
Li'l nuggies look good though, no?
Edited by zzzzzz (03/14/13 04:59 AM)
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budgrowerwannabe
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#662334 - 03/14/13 11:33 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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I do have something to share with you
First clones EVER!!!!!!!!! Now I can keep cloning all female just saw roots coming out the bottom!Im so excited
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budgrowerwannabe
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#662370 - 03/14/13 06:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Got it at walmart got to love that place!
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
#662772 - 03/18/13 04:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Starting week 7 of flower? Somewhere around there.
Smoking some "Willie Nelson" right now. Why do I not see any of that in the seedbanks?
Anyway, stretch is winding down and now waiting for the remaining 7 plants to fill out. Widely varying genetics at play here.
What do you guys think? The big girls look sativa to me now and the shorties ...? Well, I don't know. The two plants in the blue bucket are from an entirely different class of weed, but of still unknown genetics.
Anybody got a good eye here?
The big sativa looking plant in the MG bucket has a nutrient issue. The other big girl in the semi-organic bucket is just now starting to show a little of the same. All others appear to be showing no signs of deficiency or excess starting week 7 (I think) of flower.
They all have been getting the same treatment except for the most recent watering in which I held back on nutes for the MG girls, thinking perhaps since they were the odd-girls out (everyone else looking healthy) that MG was the cause, principally being over-fert. I have been giving everyone MG Bloom Booster every other watering (which amounts to every three days or so).
I'm seriously starting to think none of these plants are going to finish at the same time.
Pictures (all as of yesterday):
First, the nutrient issue. this is occuring on the upper half of the plant.
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Bucket number one for your viewing pleasure. This bucket contains the monster which I think might be a whole lot of sativa. It is also the MG bucket with nute issues:
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Close-up shot of flowers:
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Bucket number two. This contains the other large girl. Notice the HST treatment of the flower stalks for convenience:
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Lime green pistils! Sativa? Mut?
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Bucket number three. This lonely gurl used to be roommates with the hermi.
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Notice it seems to have more pregos since it so intimate with hermi.
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Up towards the top.
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Bucket number 4. This one has the totally different genetics (I think, based on the source).
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A couple shots of the tops of these. They are shorties, about half the height as the big sativa looking plants.
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How we doin'?
Edited by zzzzzz (03/18/13 04:29 PM)
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zzzzzz
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: budgrowerwannabe]
#663144 - 03/21/13 09:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks, fellas. Update coming soon with more pictures.
Here's 5g from the hermie I harvested. It's sitting at 58% humidity in the jar curing, nice, not brittle or crumbly. Not bad for 5 weeks of flower. Got a little over half an ounce dried. I can only imagine how nice it would be had it made it to maturity ....
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A few pictures taken today:
Sick sativa:
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Hermie's old roomate:
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My special girls:
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The one I was going for is out of focus.
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First things first: I checked all the pHs with my cheap-assed pH paper. I'll post pics here: http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/662811
There's the issue of my pH paper disagreeing with lab results from another local person, so some adjustment/extrapolation might be useful.
I left my notes in the grow room! Winging it!!!
The Miracle Grow Sativa (?) giant is still suffering. I'd say the condition is not getting better ... probably worse. To reiterate, the middle to upper leaves are yellow/brown spotted and these spots progress. There is also crumbly tips on the end of claw-ed leaves. New leaf production looks healthy but soon changes to spots.
Lower 1/3 leaves are unaffected and generally healthy looking.
I should do something because this plant has 12-13 LONG flower spikes that I would hope to fill in, and, if it's strongly sativa and long-flowering like I think it might be (see flower pics), I'll need to improve it's health so as to not jeopardize a good harvest.
A bit of information in that regard is that, if I recall, the last grow had these problems too. All pots then were MG. But it was complicated by a) red spider mites, b) no additional fertilizers to speak of (as opposed to this grow), and c) some neglect, so I'm not sure a direct comparison is possible, though it does seem like it's related based on symptoms and that both were MG.
The MG bucket, this time, also got dolomite but nothing else until I started giving MG Bloom Booster at flowering, every other watering along with all the rest of the buckets.
The other plant in that MG pot is STARTING to show similar signs.
All three other buckets are filled with SPENT MG from the last (4 month)grow, plus 25% worm castings and dolomite. None of them are showing any signs of nutrient/health issues EXCEPT for the other big sativa-looking girl, who is showing a LITTLE bit of the same. It might not be worth correcting this one, I dunno ....
So, the MG Big Sativa smells very lemony. All the pistils are still green/white and the trichomes clear. It's little dwarf friend also smells citrus-y.
The second bucket, which I'm now calling "Lonely", is the one that had the hermi with it. It's a little bugger. It will be the lowest yeilder. It is otherwise healthy, and smells citrus-y as well as most of these. It has more seeds than anybody else because it was so close to hermi. Luckily, they're down low where the male flowers seemed to be. (Hermi, btw, which REEKED and was major FROSTY at 5 weeks flower) is turning out not too bad now that I've dried and starting cure. A pretty good head buzz and the hay taste is going away. Tastes pretty damned good in a joint and smells wonderful when cutting for rolling. I can only imagine if it had been allowed to mature ....
Bucket #3 is the other sativa-looking big girl with lots of long branches and a "little friend". Like I said, she's starting to show similar, minor symptoms to MG Sativa, but still pretty healthy looking otherwise. Lemony smell. The other, smaller plant is healthy and has nice looking buds that smell of citrus, but a wholly different phenotype (see pics).
Bucket #4 is my "Special Two" (because they come from better genetics). Both of them are short, and healthy. No signs of nutrient deficiency or excess, pH problems, etc. They aren't exactly the same plants but closer to each other than the others are to each other. One is maturing faster than the other and has lots of red pistils and swelling calyxes, but trichomes are clear on both. They both appear to be not suffering nutrient problems.
These are going to finish at all different times, I think. One of my "special two" plants is looking more mature than the rest. I MIGHT have spied a trend towards clouding of some trichomes but most are clear and all the other plants have perfectly clear trichomes without exception. The "sativas", obviously, look the least mature with almost no pistils changing color, let along trichomes.
Edited by zzzzzz (03/21/13 10:22 PM)
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zzzzzz
Stranger
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Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 136
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#663327 - 03/23/13 05:27 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Today's visit was for inspection and flushing. After thinking long and hard and reading a SHITLOAD of threads, here and other sites, concerning MG grows, I have come to the conclusion that either over-fert. or nutrient lockout was the issue. Well, that and not having an EC meter which is the greater issue ...
So I flushed the REMAINING plants (see below) with about 4 gallons of water, each. Runoff pH (at end of flush) was lower than previous readings, somewhere in the 6 range, as compared to most recent readings.
The only plants that didn't show some kind of nutrient issue was the two plants in the blue buckets ... those from a totally different set of genetics. All others, save the big sativa looking plants, show only minor issues. I noticed clawing on another plant today (the single, friend of hermie), but ....
To my surprise, 5 of the 7 plants showed mostly cloudy trichomes and some amber ones, so I harvested. This either happened within a week or I haven't been paying close enough attention. It's a lot of work to get recognition with a 10X occular.
I left the two big girls because a) I want to give the flush a chance to work and b) they are the least mature though showing some clouding.
So, I put the two big girls back and spread them out under the lights. The're more sparse than I had hoped for, and kinda doubt they'll fill in much, but that's a lot of popcorn.
As near as I can recall (having not kept accurate details and, honestly, what's the point with unknown strains that aren't going to repeat?) it's been right around 8 weeks flower. The grow started the last two weeks of Dec. Veg was a bit longer than hoped because some of the bastards refused to show preflowers. In retrospect that shouldn't matter as I should just go ahead and stimulate flowering.
Just to reiterate the concept that pistil color might not be a great indicator of maturity, some of the plants I harvested had very little reddening/browning of the pistils while others had a lot.
Also, lesson learned that I must insist that there be one plant per container.
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The saga continues ....
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zzzzzz
Stranger
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Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 136
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Second Grow/Indoor/22x32W Long T8 Fluorescents/Soil/Bagseed [Re: zzzzzz]
#664508 - 04/01/13 08:37 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Update on finished grow: All are dry and ready for cure.
Results are 7 plants finished and 1 plant early harvested due to being a hermaphrodite. As it turns out, I discovered some hermie traits on another plant or two as well. So, there are some seeds.
Fresh odor ranged from lemon-scented cleaner to other fruity smells to some stuff I can't even describe. Others had interesting odors. Now that they're dry, though, they've got some funky odors in some and just hay smell in others, with a good smell or two happening in the better jars. (I dried 'em right via hygrometer). It's too early to comment on the quality of the smoke so I'll have to get back with a report.
Due to the random genetics of the bagseed, phenotypes varied. The two plants that hailed from better genetics made the better nugs and better weed, I think (prelim).
Plant totals were 43, 37, 24, 20, 15, 15, 13, and 7g. Unfortunately, the large numbers are for the schwaggiest weed with lots and lots of tiny buds. I can picture this stuff growing in a field in Mexico destined for the press-weed market which, in all fairness, is probably where it came from.
Things I've learned and might change: 1) I would like to stick with known genetics. It's worth paying for seeds. I imagine these plants were not selected to reduce things like hermaphroditism, considering their intended market .... 2) While the fluoros worked pretty well, I think a good HPS/MH combo would be ideal ... just use fluoros for vegging or mothers. I'm convinced better yields would be had. Also, manipulating all those fluoros is a PITA. 3) stick to one plant per bucket. 4) Watch more closely for hermies (not a big issue with known genetics).
First pic is harvest minus the hermie I harvested earlier:
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Collage of closeups of the various buds, including the hermie bud:
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