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openmind said:
...I have LOTS to say about kratom but I'm about to walk out the door...I love the leaf as much as I love cannabis, it has now become part of my daily herbal regimen along with yerba mate and cannabis .

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Alright, so....said I have a lot to say about kratom, here goes.





I have recently fallen in love with kratom and have been using it semi-regularly for the past year or so. It is hands down my favorite psychoactive plant, right after cannabis.


Kratom melts away my social anxiety and depression, gives me a TON of physical and mental energy, keeps my mind focused and sharp, and depending on the strain/dose it can induce a lovely warm euphoria. Though I don't take the stuff solely for the purpose of getting high though, and honestly there really isn't much in that area anyways...It's my anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, caffeine replacement, pain killer, all around feel good & balanced all in one herb. It's my medicine, rather than taking several different pharmaceuticals this medicinal plant does the job of all of them. Much safer, for myself it is much more effective than ssri's or benzos, and cheaper. And the stuff makes my mind/thoughts/focus on point and very sharp, rather than making me feel doped up and slow like opiates would. Kratom is also chock full of anti-oxidants & beneficial compounds, more so than green tea.


Some of my favorite strains are Green Malay, Red Borneo (Bali), Red Thai, Maeng Da, & Sunda. I have tried a few extracts, such as the gold reserve, but I try to keep it to just plain leaf. I will sometimes add a pinch of extract to a small amount of leaf for enhancement and to stretch my supply of leaf, as it potentiates it quite well.


As far as my use/intake...Since I started using kratom about a year ago I've taken it daily for a period of 4 to 6 weeks, then I take a break for at least a week (or longer). My daily intake ranges from 4g to 8g a day. Lately I've been taking 3g before work, then 3g to 5g when I get home.


I can't quite put my finger on the tolerance when it comes to kratom. It's there, but at the same time here I am a year later and the effects are just as pronounced as they were the very first time I took it . I have several explanations for that though....#1, as I previously mentioned I don't take the stuff just to catch a buzz, I take it as a medicine, so perhaps my minds "approach" to the stuff is different than someone just wanting to get lifted. #2, I don't increase my dosage, since day one I have always taken more or less the same amount every day (same thing I've done with cannabis, been smoking for 5+ years and 0.05g of weed will still get me all sorts of stoned). #3, I do take other medicinal herbs daily such as milk thistle, ginkgo biloba, cat's claw, etc...and those no doubt have some synergy and some enzyme inhibition which potentiates kratom.


When I do take breaks, it's really not that hard to give up. Quitting coffee was much harder for me. I do experience mild withdrawal symptoms, I suppose, for about 24 to 48 hours. Such as feeling sleepy and lethargic during the day, maybe a headache, and some irritability . Nothing that some yerba mate and cannabis can't make go away .










There is quite a bit going on with kratom as far as alkaloids & the range of activity they have. What's interesting is the two most prevalent alkaloids ( 7-hydroxymitragynine and mitragynine) are structurally similar to tryptamines, but they act as opioid receptor agonists.




Here is the list of alkaloids & their activity/effects found in kratom....




Ajmalicine (Raubasine): Cerebrocirculant, antiaggregant, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-1), sedative, anticonvulsant, smooth muscle relaxer. Also found in Rauwolfia serpentina.

Akuammigine

Ciliaphylline: antitussive, analgesic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynantheidine: μ -opioid antagonist, also found in Yohimbe. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynoxeine: Calcium channel blocker. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynoxine A and B: Dopamine mediating anti-locomotives. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Epicatechin: Antioxidant, antiaggregant, antibacterial, antidiabetic,
antihepatitic, anti-inflammatory, anti-leukemic, antimutagenic, antiperoxidant,
antiviral, potential cancer preventative, alpha-amylase inhibitor. Also found in dark chocolate.

9-Hydroxycorynantheidine: Partial opioid agonist

7-hydroxymitragynine: Analgesic, antitussive, antidiarrheal; primary
psychoactive in Kratom, Roughly 2% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isomitraphylline: Immunostimulant, anti-leukemic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isomitrafoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isopteropodine: Immunostimulant

Isorhynchophylline: Immunostimulant. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isospeciofoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitraciliatine: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitragynine: Indole alkaloid. Analgesic, antitussive, antidiarrheal, adrenergic, antimalarial,
possible psychedelic (5-HT2A) antagonist. Roughly 66% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitragynine oxindole B. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitrafoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitraphylline: Oxindole alkaloid. Vasodilator, antihypertensive, muscle relaxer, diuretic, antiamnesic, anti-leukemic, possible immunostimulant. <1% of total alkaloid contents in Kratom leaf.

Mitraversine

Paynantheine: Indole alkaloid. Smooth muscle relaxer. 8.6% to 9% of total alkaloid contents in Kratom leaf.

Rhynchophylline: Vasodilator, antihypertensive, calcium channel blocker,
antiaggregant, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic, anti-arrhythmic, antithelmintic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Speciociliatine: Weak opioid agonist. 0.8% to 1% of total alkaloid content of Kratom leaf, unique to Kratom.

Speciofoline

Speciogynine: Smooth muscle relaxer. 6.6% to 7% of total alkaloid contents of Kratom leaf.

Speciophylline: Indole alkaloid. Anti-leukemic. <1% of total alkaloid contents of Kratom leaf.

Stipulatine

Tetrahydroalstonine: Hypoglycemic, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-2)





Some things that are known to or that I've found to synergize well with and/or potentiate kratom....If you are looking for more stimulation, Yerba Mate goes very well with it....Milk thistle, turmeric, ginkgo bilba, ginseng, cat's claw (actually has some of the same alkaloids as kratom), kanna, calamus, kava, Nigella Sativa (Black Seed, aka black cumin), passion flower, and cannabis of course all synergize well.






I'm sure most of you know, but kratom has been receiving a slew of bad media attention/propaganda. I have no doubt big pharma is behind most of it, particularly those that are involved with buprenorphine (suboxone). The fact that it is sold in head shops isn't helping, blatantly being sold as something to get high off of, even being sold in capsules for human consumption. Sure, it's obvious that we eat the stuff, but it being sold for human consumption isn't helping the situation at all. Think about other things that have been in head shops in the past, that got a bunch of media attention, then banned shortly after. As of lately quite a few shipments coming in from out of the US have been held or seized by customs, which is bull shit since it is still completely legal...people have been receiving letters like this instead of their kratom>>>>









Wouldn't be surprised if the stuff is illegal in the coming years. It's a shame because it is a terrific leaf, some real medicine that helps many people. From those that use it to wing off or abstain from opiate use, to those that use it as an alternative to pharmaceutical opiates that need to dull pain, to those that use it for energy/stimulation/anti-depressant/etc....and even those that just want to catch a buzz & chill out with...it's incredibly benign. Not not to mention the health benefits, anti-tumor, anti-carcinogenic, anti-oxidant, immune system boosting properties.






Anyway, I think that's all I have to say at the moment .




-OM



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PositiveOutlook said:

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Connoisseur said:
Thinkin about ordering a key soon got an offer I can't pass up.

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how much?

i paid $245 for my last one . quality stuff

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Sham87 said:
...Have any of you developed the darkening of the skin from taking too much kratom??

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bEelzeBosS said:
It's been two weeks and two days since I ordered from Bikhuk and according to the tracking info it still hasn't even left Indonesia

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iStoner said:
New vendor hooked me up with samples, and even sent a pencil with their logo on
it. Everything was nice, and vacuums sealed. Will let you guys know how it is..

About to munch down 3.5grams (50/50 mix of RV borneo, and WV indo)

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iStoner said:
They really are good stuff


There RV thai seems to be way potent compared to other vendors. I'd say the
samples, and quality make up for the higher price. Which enhanced/enriched
blends do you recommend? what about extracts?

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iStoner said:
I spilt like most of my kratom, so i have none left. sad day. at least it was nice while it lasted

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I also have a small amount of a Sundanese/Indo leaf blend that's enriched with gold reserve extract. This one I haven't tried before, but it sounds lovely. Looking forward to dipping into that someday, when ever the right situation calls for it.

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that shit is the BOMB. That gold reserve is something else, so is the sundanease and indo mixed with it.

Seriously start low with it if you have no tolreance atm. i was nodding off of it.

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I have no tolerance at the moment...even when I do, I've always been really sensitive to plants/herbs (and anything opioid related) so it doesn't take much.

I'll probably start with 1/2 a teaspoon, which I'm pretty sure is around 1.5g , with a little bit of plain leaf on top.

I like to stick to plain leaf because of tolerance, cost, and PL works just fine for what I use it for....but every once in a while I like to indulge a little bit .




-OM

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iStoner said:
Open mind, wehn i have it, i take half a tsp in the morning, 1tsp mid day, and 2 tsp at nigh.
usually switch up the strains for cerain times of ay. i use it until i run out. so sometimes days
sometimes months.

withdrawals are lack of energy/general fatigue, i get stomach aches, joint pains, headaches, and overall
restlessness. Can't eat welll, nor sleep well when im w/d.

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That seems like a reasonable & sensible approach to daily use .


I wake up with coffee so I usually wait at least a couple hours before I take any kratom. If I take kratom right after my coffee it's a bit too stimulating for me unless I'm out doing something physical. I've also puked on a couple occasions with having coffee & kratom on an empty stomach.

I take a level teaspoon mid-day, then another teaspoon at night. Changing up the strains depending on the time of day or depending on what I have going on. I try to keep myself at 2 teaspoons day, but if I'm going to go out doing something, like in a social setting, a show or party, I'll take a bit more (I don't really drink, besides a beer or two, so I take kratom and smoke weed instead ).

I too take it daily until I run out...that can be weeks to months. There is some tolerance towards the end, but it's not much, I can still feel the stuff working from taking the same amounts.

I've noticed if I taper my intake down a few days before I run out, the withdrawals are almost non-existent. Even when they are present, they're mild. Mostly consists of lethargy/low energy, restlessness when I try to sleep, difficulty sleeping, mild joint pain, and I feel a bit more irritable than I usually would...it's all rather mild though and only lasts for 2 to 3 days.





-OM


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iStoner said:
I actually find toss n washing with my morning coffee the best way to consume kratom. The coffee, and kratom synergize but also the taste is wonderful. The warmness dissolves the kratom, and lets it flow down your throat. Then eat like some toast or something, and you're all good.


That's what i do anyway. Then i wait for my krat to kick in before i smoke my morning cig.

as usual, i agree with the rest of your post lol you need to get outta my head you know.

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Hahah


Yea, I mean I've taken my kratom after some coffee a few times and have really enjoyed the synergy. But there's been quite a few occasions where I've felt dizzy and somewhat nauseous after taking them together. Usually I have a tough stomach to things of this sort, but having coffee & kratom in my stomach just doesn't settle well for some reason.

I do dig a strong cup of green tea with kratom though.


I tried a little bit of that sundan/gold reserve stuff, no more than a gram mixed with 3/4 teaspoon of red borneo...definitely some good stuff .




-OM

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iStoner said:
I've got like a dose of kratom left, figured i had more. Oh well.. i'll have money monday for more.

Sucks though cause i've been using it to help with work. Dont have stims for another 2-3 days

so work might suck for a few days. Especially since im almost out of etizolam too.

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Dr. Siekadellyk said:
I take like 1/2 O per dose without tol.

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I don't get how some people can take such large amounts.

Regardless of tolerance, anything beyond 8g or so and I feel more dysphoric than anything...dizzy, spins, nausea, headache, shaky hands, hot & cold sweats, etc etc.

1.5g to 3g a couple times a day treats me just fine, 4g to 6g is about as much as I'll ever need to take at a time.


I haven't taken any in weeks now, it's alright though.





-OM


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Sham87 said:
Tolerance builds up, out of no where you're putting 10 grams of powder into your mouth to toss and wash.....

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iStoner said:
Man, i want to make my own extract, i just don't know what to use yet....

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P-O said:
i prefer tea to capsules these days.

been drinking 12-17gms of leaf at a time

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still beLIEve said:
In my experience with Kratom there is a very, very thin line between feeling good and feeling sick.

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It's mostly the white vein strains, or any maeng da variety, that tends to induce a somewhat nauseated/dizzy shit feeling if I take a wee bit too much.


Over the years I've found there is a sweet spot or certain range in the dosage that works for me, that spot may be different for everyone.

2.5g on an empty stomach, followed by another gram or two after a snack is what works for me. Even after years of using this leaf daily, with occasional breaks, that amount will have me feeling like sunshine.

Taking more than 5g at once is too much for me...I'll feel nauseated, light headed & dizzy, hot & sweaty, just crappy all around. If there is a certain occasion that I do want to take more than my usual two teaspoons a day, I find it's best for me to space out that amount...something like taking 3g, after 30 minutes I'll take another 3g, then another 1g to 2g 30 minutes after that for a total of around 8 grams over a 90 minute period.




I've started going through a new vendor...very happy with the quality, on par with the other vendor I've gone through for a while but considerably cheaper. And they have green malay, which I haven't had in a long while, hands down my favorite strain.





-OM



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iStoner said:
i NEVER forget that snack/food after about 20-30min after dosing. Otherwise the dose just isnt as strong.

I've been using about 5-6grams lately. Trying to lower my dosage though. Shouldn't be hard.

Im running low, and so are funds.

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Indeed, I also wait about 20 to 30 minutes. Definitely notice a difference. I also try to have that snack be something wholesome... usually fruit or avocado, or something simple like an egg on toast with a bunch of black pepper & cayenne pepper (both of which have potential for potentiation, but larger amounts would likely be needed for it to be really noticeable)


When using kratom my meals & snacks are centered around the times I take it, gives a nice "structure" to my munching through out the day. I tend to eat a bit cleaner/healthier and less sugar through the day when using the leaf also.


I've been on a break for the past week or so, should be getting some later next week. I calculated my average daily intake over the past few months (not including the days I'm on break, only the days I take it), came out to 4.6 grams a day. For the past few months I've been consistently using it daily for 4 weeks, then a break of 3 to 7 days between.





-OM


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vinsue said:
Been thinking a lot about Kratom recently.
Any info out there about it's effect on liver/kidney function?
I guessing it shouldn't be too bad if I'm not a pig about my use.
I doubt it's any worse than other things I've done.

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As for the effect on the liver & kidneys...I've seen this discussed a few times on various online forums that are centered around kratom, though not in thorough detail.

Most of the discussion was stories from people that have been using the leaf more or less daily for at least a few years, that have also had regular blood work/check ups on vitals done over the years. Everyone of these people said that their blood work/checks ups showed no detrimental effect anywhere .

Now as far as these people's age, history of health/drug use, whether or not they have hepatitis, etc etc....I'm not sure.

Kratom is a diuretic, it makes me pee about as much  as coffee does (perhaps a little bit more)...So one has to stay plenty well hydrated when using the leaf.






Just going on my own feelings...I suspect this leaf is more therapeutic, healing, & cleansing on the body (and mind) than it is harmful. Of course moderation is key with everything, but even there I find kratom to be rather difficult to abuse...Considering it tends to have a "ceiling" for most people, where at a certain point taking more doesn't necessarily get you "more" (other than more of the undesirable side-effects like I mentioned in my post at the top of this page).

Like most medicinal plants, like cannabis, there's a whole bunch of alkaloids & active components in kratom that work in harmony with each other to provide a "whole" is greater than the sum of its parts. There are a few alkaloids in kratom that have affinity for opioid receptors, but if I remember correctly only one of the alkaloids is a full-agonist, another being a partial-agonist (so the the opioid receptors are not getting tickled anywhere as vigorously as they would from pharmaceutical opioids)....

....And I believe there is even an opioid-antagonist in the mix as well, which has a longer half-life than the agonists (So everything is in balance, just like how the CBD in cannabis balances out the effects of THC)....I believe this is why respiratory-depression does not seem to be an issue with kratom even though it does have some action on opioid receptors, I'm pretty sure there has never been a fatal overdose with kratom....

I think this is also why any "withdrawal" after regular use is relatively minimal to non-existent among most people. In my experience, any "withdrawal" lasts no more than 48 to 72 hours and mostly consists of a bit of lethargy through the day, perhaps a bit irritable, and some difficulty getting to sleep....but even then it's mostly just returning to how I feel with out the leaf....and when I taper my daily amounts down for a few days before taking a break there's practically no hint of any withdrawal. As far as cravings for it, I have none when I take breaks....I have more cravings for coffee and more difficulty taking a break from coffee than I do kratom.





Not to compare plants...but I consider kratom to be on par with cannabis as far as the medicinal potential and what it has to offer, and the way it seems to provide a "balancing" affect on the bodies various systems (and mind). Kratom is said to be loaded with anti-oxidants, I've heard more so than green tea.

Among all the alkaloids in kratom, here is the wide-array of properties this leaf holds (other than it's buzz).....Immuno-stimulant, potential cancer preventative, antioxidant, anti-aggregant, antibacterial, anti-diabetic, anti-hepatitic, anti-inflammatory, anti-leukemic, anti-mutagenic, antiviral,  anti-hypertensive. (Of course some of the alkaloids that hold those properties might only found in only trace amounts)



It's some terrific medicine. Gives me energy (depending on the strain), takes the edge of any anxiety, lifts my mood, makes me more social, relieves aches & pains, relaxes muscles, helps with sleep (depending on the strain), etc etc etc....




...anyway, sorry for the long ramble, I tend to do that sometimes. If anything it just goes to show how highly I hold this leaf...it's my favorite medicinal-plant, after cannabis.






-OM



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