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 DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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 Re: Vancouver Riots  [Re: Laysthepipe]
#564911 - 06/16/11 05:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's what I'm talkin bout.
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: Harlz]
#564916 - 06/16/11 05:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Harlz said:
Quote:
Tangerines said:
You are deluded. Strict gun laws are terrible. Like it makes it any less difficult to find a gun on the black market if you wanted. Whereas the legitimate people cannot procure a proper defense tool through legal channels.
any study will tell you, more guns in the street, more murder,
Im far from deluded, its cold hard facts, the US murder rate is astronomically high
sure you can find guns on the black market, but its a lot fucking harder than buying a gun from the corner gun store, or getting a free gun when you join certain banks 
and in fact, you are deluded, lots of legitimate HUNTERS
can get many firearms, its just not as easy as the US, an obvious bonus for Canada in my opinion.
And DD I completely agree the US is fucked, in fact thats been the premise of all my arguments, rather than Canada is great, US is terrible
anyone who denies the fact that the US is a shithole on almost all fronts is deluded
Nearly every household in Switzerland has military rifles as the Swiss require military service and you are able to take home your rifle afterwards to uphold a strong militia. Yet they also have an extremely low murder rate. Likewise many states with more strict gun control laws, such as California, have extremely high murder rates.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day. 
Edited by THEBats (06/16/11 05:16 PM)
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Harlz
Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 4,449
Loc: cloudz
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: THEBats]
#564920 - 06/16/11 05:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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We are strictly considering america in this case, the culture plays a significant role, and american and swedish culture are, in my best assumption, quite different.
As for california, thats not a fair assessment, just because they have strict gun laws means nothing when you are surrounded by states that would be more than happy to give you a gun, and the black market itself is also probably much larger strictly due to the amount of weapons available. when compared to the can black market of course.
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: Harlz] 1
#564921 - 06/16/11 05:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Exactly my point though. The culture, not gun ownership, is to blame. You're blaming gun ownership rates for the rise in murder, when it's not the case.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
Edited by THEBats (06/16/11 05:20 PM)
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DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: THEBats]
#564922 - 06/16/11 05:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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If anything, owning a gun in the US reduces your chance of being murdered.
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Harlz
Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 4,449
Loc: cloudz
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: THEBats]
#564923 - 06/16/11 05:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Its a combination of both culture and availability of weapons
+
government fear tactics
+ natural paranoia
there must be a gene within Americans which is naturally attracted to guns, or naturally fearful and feels the need for a gun to protect themselves because everywhere else is so flooded with guns
nearly every american loves guns 
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Harlz
Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 4,449
Loc: cloudz
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
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Quote:
DungenessDank said:
If anything, owning a gun in the US reduces your chance of being murdered.
because everyone else has a gun, and if you both have guns, you'll both stand off and eventually what?
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DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: Harlz]
#564925 - 06/16/11 05:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's still the wild west out here, we just circle jerk about "progress"
Quote:
Harlz said:
Quote:
DungenessDank said:
If anything, owning a gun in the US reduces your chance of being murdered.
because everyone else has a gun, and if you both have guns, you'll both stand off and eventually what?
An armed society is a polite society.
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Manitou
Indépendantiste
Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 7,126
Loc: Québecédelic
Last seen: 12 hours, 54 minutes
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You also cannot entirely blame culture for murders.... In any goddamn place in the world there are murders being committed, it is in the "human culture", its global, not only in USA or Canada or whatever place.... There are rotten eggs everywhere, an easy access to weapons only make it easier for them, if you do not know any contacts for guns in the black market, well you might as well search all your life it doesn't mean you will ever find one. It is not the guns that are to be blamed, maybe more the way that people see these things.
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Pour un instant, j'ai respiré très fort
Ça m'a permis de visiter mon corps
Des inconnus vivent en roi chez moi
Moi qui avait accepté leurs lois
J'ai perdu mon temps à gagner du temps
J'ai besoin de me trouver une histoire à me conter
Pour instant j'ai oublié mon nom
Harmonium - Pour un instant
--------------------------------------------
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Harlz
Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 4,449
Loc: cloudz
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
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Quote:
DungenessDank said:
It's still the wild west out here, we just circle jerk about "progress"
Quote:
Harlz said:
Quote:
DungenessDank said:
If anything, owning a gun in the US reduces your chance of being murdered.
because everyone else has a gun, and if you both have guns, you'll both stand off and eventually what?
An armed society is a polite society.
is that to say an unarmed society isn't?
Id say generally no.
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: Harlz]
#564928 - 06/16/11 05:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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We just believe that an armed populace are more free than an unarmed one. I don't want to see the day when police, the government and criminals are the only ones capable of possessing firearms.
I'm a responsible gun owner, why should my right to own a firearm be taken away because of the ignorance of others? For the most part I own firearms purely because I enjoy military history, most of my guns have some historical significance, 2 are from WW2 and my AK is the gun that changed the history of warfare more than any other. Also it's fun to shoot. Just like fireworks there's something satisfying about hearing loud explosions and seeing shit blow up. Can't really explain it, it just is.
Really the last thing on my mind is personal protection, though it is a nice bonus.
Also no one said a free society would be a safe society. But I rather possess more freedom than security any day.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
Edited by THEBats (06/16/11 05:32 PM)
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Harlz
Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 4,449
Loc: cloudz
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: THEBats]
#564929 - 06/16/11 05:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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well, lots of things are fun but that doesn't change the facts about them from years of data does it?
Thats like saying, well, Hellfire missiles are fun to shoot, the explosion is cool and I get to harm people, therefore it makes it right.
The simple fact is, less guns means less murders, there are plenty of gun for hunters, and lets be honest, if you need a gun for anything besides hunting or "fun" which I already adressed, you are a criminal anyways most likely
I respect your opinion and I dont think there should be no guns, but I think their only real purpose should be hunting, if you find recreation with rifles thats fine, but weapons such as handguns have no place in hunting, and are only meant to harm humans, of course this is mostly based on my own opinion but there is facts about gun control and murder rates readily available
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DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: Harlz]
#564930 - 06/16/11 05:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Violence is global, we just happen to have a gun-factor in ours, which results in deaths. In other countries people just stab each other with broken beer bottles and shit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Gun Ownership is one of our countries founding principles, additionally I and others get a lot of fun out of recreational shooting.
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Manitou
Indépendantiste
Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 7,126
Loc: Québecédelic
Last seen: 12 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: THEBats]
#564931 - 06/16/11 05:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
THEBats said:
I'm a responsible gun owner, why should my right to own a firearm be taken away because of the ignorance of others?
I like how you say that anyone who doesn't like guns are ignorants ....
Nobody never said it shouldn't be legal, you live in a different country, I do not know how it is there, nor do you know how things happens here, it is already legal there, if it is working for you, than 
But, you must understand why some country doesn't allow it, it is not ignorance... I would rather say it is only that people don't feel the urge to have a gun to be safe, you keep saying it is historical points of views, it is true, but history is here so we won't make the same mistakes as our ancestors did, you like the history of your guns, it is totally a good reason to purchase history artefact's, collections, but, you must also understand that a population isn't "more free" than another just because they can have guns, why does it makes you feel free, why would the populations refusing the legalization of guns less free?
--------------------
Pour un instant, j'ai respiré très fort
Ça m'a permis de visiter mon corps
Des inconnus vivent en roi chez moi
Moi qui avait accepté leurs lois
J'ai perdu mon temps à gagner du temps
J'ai besoin de me trouver une histoire à me conter
Pour instant j'ai oublié mon nom
Harmonium - Pour un instant
--------------------------------------------
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: Manitou]
#564932 - 06/16/11 05:46 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Actually, if you've ever been wild boar hunting then you'll know that pistols can serve a purpose when they get up close.
Like I've said before, and countries like Switzerland suggest, violent crime is much more dependent on culture than on access to guns. Gun control could limit access but then criminals would just go back to using knives or other weapons. And while perhaps me and you could fend someone off with a knife many women may not be so lucky. And of course ourselves may not be so lucky if there's more than one person.
Freedom over safety. Quote:
Gaskelort said:
Quote:
THEBats said:
I'm a responsible gun owner, why should my right to own a firearm be taken away because of the ignorance of others?
I like how you say that anyone who doesn't like guns are ignorants ....
Nobody never said it shouldn't be legal, you live in a different country, I do not know how it is there, nor do you know how things happens here, it is already legal there, if it is working for you, than
But, you must understand why some country doesn't allow it, it is not ignorance... I would rather say it is only that people don't feel the urge to have a gun to be safe, you keep saying it is historical points of views, it is true, but history is here so we won't make the same mistakes as our ancestors did, you like the history of your guns, it is totally a good reason to purchase history artefact's, collections, but, you must also understand that a population isn't "more free" than another just because they can have guns, why does it makes you feel free, why would the populations refusing the legalization of guns less free?
I wasn't talking about those who don't like guns but those who use guns irresponsibly or for criminal enterprise.
As far as freedom, well fascist regimes are the first to ban private gun ownership. It should tell you something when dictators view gun ownership as a threat to their tyranny.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
Edited by THEBats (06/16/11 05:51 PM)
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 drawde
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 5,268
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: Harlz] 1
#564933 - 06/16/11 05:57 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Arguing for gun restriction... 
Also Canada is just little USA. For the most part anyway, we just have a smaller lower class.
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King Koopa said:
The amount of pot that Gask smokes is equivalent to a guy shooting heroin on weekends
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Manitou
Indépendantiste
Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 7,126
Loc: Québecédelic
Last seen: 12 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: THEBats]
#564935 - 06/16/11 06:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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If today, there is any kind of dictator that would try to take USA or Canada, he would get kicked in the balls.... these kinds of tyrants do not have their place in the societies of today, it is totally improbable that it ever happens, mostly because now, politics are taken care of by a lot of persons... I am not too worried about this problem....
And it is not because facists regimes were banning guns that we must do exactly the opposite ...
--------------------
Pour un instant, j'ai respiré très fort
Ça m'a permis de visiter mon corps
Des inconnus vivent en roi chez moi
Moi qui avait accepté leurs lois
J'ai perdu mon temps à gagner du temps
J'ai besoin de me trouver une histoire à me conter
Pour instant j'ai oublié mon nom
Harmonium - Pour un instant
--------------------------------------------
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Vancouver Riots [Re: Manitou]
#564937 - 06/16/11 06:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think we can never be apathetic about possible threats to freedom because they seem unlikely. Humans haven't changed much in their primal goals of power and control.
I think tyranny in the 21st century may even be accepted with open arms. At least that's the goal. The same human psychology used to persuade a German population towards nationalistic genocide is still present with us today. Just because we're aware of specific examples does not mean we're any less likely to succumb to this sort of group thinking. However unlikely, I feel more free knowing the government aren't the only ones with arms.
Edited by THEBats (06/16/11 06:18 PM)
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