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 Picklez
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 17,919
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Quote:
mellowparty said:
I'll wait till they figure this out and find out the pathways that upregulate the probability of a positive outcome. Then instead of a prayer they might give you a pill or something.
Do you have a job interview?
I think it's funny how you use words that dont exist to try and make yourself sound smart. "upregulate," seriously?
Yes, I have a job interview in a couple of hours. Later this afternoon.
Bats- It isnt just 1 study. There have been quite a few separate studies done. And if I recall, it's something between 10-20% less complications, which is pretty significant when you consider the number of people involved in the studies.
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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 Re: How I see god  [Re: Picklez]
#561112 - 06/02/11 10:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nearly all of them have had their methodologies criticized or had extremely small sample sizes. The one I posted is one of the most comprehensive studies done on the subject, and it found no correlation, if any it was that prayer increased complications.
Any effect can almost certainly be argued as placebo where the person knows they are being prayed for, or they themselves pray for their recovery.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day. 
Edited by THEBats (06/02/11 10:26 AM)
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Picklez
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 17,919
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: THEBats]
#561118 - 06/02/11 10:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Your link has little to do with what I was talking about
Your article is about how other people recover when they know they are being prayed for by other people
I was directly referring to people who pray themselves prior to having surgery. There are studies that show that people who pray prior to surgery have fewer complications
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: Picklez] 1
#561122 - 06/02/11 10:36 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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That would have little to do with prayer though, and the whole reason for studies such as the one I posted which attempt to separate prayer as a religious force. People who pray themselves are just experiencing a placebo. The only way to test against this is through secondary prayer.
Hence failed methodologies in identifying prayer as the true source of lower complications.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
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Picklez
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 17,919
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: THEBats]
#561124 - 06/02/11 10:41 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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How do you figure?
It's not placebo if you compare people who prayed prior to surgery, and people who did not pray before surgery. You then compare the number of people from each group that had complications. You can then find a percentage. You can then accurately compare the two groups.
Hardly rocket science. Basic statistics.
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: Picklez] 1
#561126 - 06/02/11 10:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Because it completely involves their perceptions on the power of prayer. I doubt if you were to take a group of atheists and told them to pray that it would have the same effect. If prayer worked then surely praying for someone without their knowledge would also work too no?
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
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Picklez
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 17,919
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: THEBats]
#561127 - 06/02/11 10:49 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am not butthurt, I just dont feel like having this argument any more. I got to get ready for my interview and this seems like a complete waste of time. especially for a subject I really dont care either way on. I know what I have read in scientific journals. Only reason I was researching is because I have to get some surgery done in the future and the doctor said that phrase to me, and I decided to look it up because I was actually skeptical too. I am very much like you, I believe in "a God," of my understand and one that I have an individual relationship with. I dont go to church because I think they are borderline scams.
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
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Re: How I see god [Re: Picklez]
#561131 - 06/02/11 10:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't believe in a God, but I also know the true creation of the universe is not likely to be known or understood in humanity's existence. I guess I would say I'm agnostic, but I lean more towards atheism if I had to say I believe one way or the other.
Just understand, that science gets it wrong too. There are plenty of studies published in academic journals that are later discredited.
Also I've been trying to find a study showing anywhere near those percentages and am not having any luck except some references on pro-religious sites that fail to link or even mention the author of said studies.
What kind of surgery?
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
Edited by THEBats (06/02/11 10:55 AM)
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Picklez
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 17,919
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: THEBats]
#561134 - 06/02/11 10:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I could have misread what percentages went with what in the article. I thought it was a pretty significant percent like that for some reason 
so you dont pray at all, right?
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: Picklez]
#561137 - 06/02/11 11:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nope.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: THEBats]
#561144 - 06/02/11 11:37 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I like to think there are two "gods" each feeding off the other.
The Pong paddles are the Gods and I am the ball.
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eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
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Re: How I see god [Re: Picklez]
#561159 - 06/02/11 12:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KillerPicklez said:
Quote:
mellowparty said:
I'll wait till they figure this out and find out the pathways that upregulate the probability of a positive outcome. Then instead of a prayer they might give you a pill or something.
Do you have a job interview?
I think it's funny how you use words that dont exist to try and make yourself sound smart. "upregulate," seriously?
who is so readily butthurt, exactly?
this place is WORSE then the shroomery... how do you people associate with your time? do you mind wasting it so frivolously?
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mellowparty
Ribosome user
Registered: 07/05/09
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what the hell is my religion then? Fundamental tryptaminism?
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DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
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Re: How I see god [Re: Picklez] 1
#561172 - 06/02/11 12:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Any statistic like "10% of people who pray don't die as much" might as well be thrown out the window. What is the margin of error? 10%?
TheBats is right, there are an unnumbered amount of examples for data suggesting the impossible, only to later realize it was because of the error or bias.
I don't care for the term "agnostic", it should be at most used as an adjective to described someones theism or atheism.
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Big_tiggy
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,178
Loc: Neither here nor there
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what if people prayed that the surgery would kill them? then the journals would be construed
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mellowparty
Ribosome user
Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 489
Loc: 3'-UTR
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: How I see god [Re: Picklez]
#561235 - 06/02/11 01:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KillerPicklez said:
Quote:
mellowparty said:
I'll wait till they figure this out and find out the pathways that upregulate the probability of a positive outcome. Then instead of a prayer they might give you a pill or something.
Do you have a job interview?
I think it's funny how you use words that dont exist to try and make yourself sound smart. "upregulate," seriously?
Yes, I have a job interview in a couple of hours. Later this afternoon.
Bats- It isnt just 1 study. There have been quite a few separate studies done. And if I recall, it's something between 10-20% less complications, which is pretty significant when you consider the number of people involved in the studies.
Its not my problem you havent heard of upregulate and downregulate. Its a pretty common term in molecular biology and I see it all the time in research papers.
Do your fucking research before you say I'm making new words up 
Edited by mellowparty (06/02/11 02:25 PM)
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eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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he is saying that you are using the word out of it's context, as if it's somehow not allowed. 
EDIT: oh wait, he wasn't being pragmatic, it seems he was literally saying you made it up! 
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mellowparty
Ribosome user
Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 489
Loc: 3'-UTR
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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I use the word a lot IRL. Actually people think Im friggin weird cause I use all sort of obscure words that I pick up from science papers. I dont even notice that Im using these words anymore 
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eNtranceAsexit
Bang-a-Bang-Boogie
Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 1,355
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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oh well, words are just words... they mean more harm then good, most of the time... so i don't see how using some words out of context or using words that people don't care to know is annoying, wrong or bad, anyways.
might as well use words creatively, if you're going to talk... otherwise... you can...
*flap flap flap*  the same bullshit day and night.
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mellowparty
Ribosome user
Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 489
Loc: 3'-UTR
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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