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 Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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 Re: using MH light for seedlings?  [Re: maryanne3087]
#500684 - 11/24/10 08:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Fact is a grower isn't limited to a 3x3' canopy with a 600w light Fact is the sun has limitations Fact is there is only one sun Fact is the sun can be beaten without great difficulty.
I never said a grower was. You said as I have pointed out many times already that a 600 watt over a 3x3 foot area was stronger then the sun at it's brightest any place on earth. I said that is wrong and it is and you took it from there.
Quote:
500w of CFL over a 5.4 ft canopy and that makes for over 10 000 lumens
You may wanna check this cause I'm thinking that if a 600watt hps is 10000 lumens it's gonna take way more then 500w of cfl to get to the same output. I'm not sure about this but only a 100w difference to get to the same amount of light seems funny.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#500695 - 11/24/10 09:19 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I never said a grower was. You said as I have pointed out many times already that a 600 watt over a 3x3 foot area was stronger then the sun at it's brightest any place on earth. I said that is wrong and it is and you took it from there.
You said, the sun can not be beaten by artificial light. Quote:
Even mild sun is way brighter then any hid light.
I did reply that I believed a 600w over a 3x3' canopy is meant to out right beat any sunlight perhaps this isn't true but it's not very far from the truth either and definitely beats most of the worlds light exposure on a daily average. Either way HID lights can and will provide more light than the sun can regardless if the grower has to use an impractical amount of lighting over an area ie. 2 x 600w over a 3x3' area.
Quote:
500w of CFL over a 5.4 ft canopy and that makes for over 10 000 lumens
You may wanna check this cause I'm thinking that if a 600watt hps is 10000 lumens it's gonna take way more then 500w of cfl to get to the same output. I'm not sure about this but only a 100w difference to get to the same amount of light seems funny.
It's all relative to the area you're lighting. His canopy is 5.4 sq ft and I don't remember the exact wattage and I did say that I would use more in the case where I were to beat the sun. I am not by any means saying I would use CFLs for growing, only that they can provide more lumens than the sun. I could easily triple this figure over the same or even a smaller area he provided this lighting only as horizontal lighting.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,052
Loc: No where ville, USA 
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500836 - 11/25/10 03:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bleaching has nothing to do with the subject, honestly.
My 120 watt LED causes bleaching and it's not because it's stronger than the sun.
Bleaching is caused by an abundance of or lack of certain spectrum's of light.
Which is yet another reason the sun beats the shit of a any bulbs.
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 dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Stoneth]
#500846 - 11/25/10 05:32 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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huffy sqoble,..huffy sqoble !he he he..
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: dmtcorey]
#500851 - 11/25/10 06:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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correct me if im wrong ,all this boils down to is an experiment of taking a reading of lumens 3 feet away from a 600 watt bulb at canopy level and comparing the reading to a reading taken under the sun to see what puts out more lumens ? sounds to simple!
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Stoneth]
#500924 - 11/26/10 02:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd like to see bleaching caused by a lack of light. I can provide no light at all and I can only assume that would be a lack of every light spectrum.
An HPS will only cause bleaching when you're providing more light than the sun provides.
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: dmtcorey]
#500925 - 11/26/10 02:53 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dmtcorey said:
correct me if im wrong ,all this boils down to is an experiment of taking a reading of lumens 3 feet away from a 600 watt bulb at canopy level and comparing the reading to a reading taken under the sun to see what puts out more lumens ? sounds to simple!
If you want to solve the argument the sun can not be beaten by artificial light you need to realize that the sun has limitations and the grower doesn't in his or her ability to add multiple lights to exceed 1364 watts/sq meter minus whatever sunlight is reflected away or absorbed before reaching the sun's surface (over 50%).
I wonder how the argument would have gone if Harry_ballsach argued the same point. There's a certain taboo to sound science on this forum that would not be tolerated in any sort of scientific discussion. How would someone look if something along the lines of this went down in a classroom?
Professor says: Today we're going to learn about irradiance.
Student says: Great, but the sun can't be beaten by artificial light
Professor says: Well the sun beams down solar radiation measured at 1364 w/ sq meter to earth however half of that is absorbed or reflected by ozone, water vapor, dust/debris, and components of our atmosphere other than the listed, leaving us with something something around ~650w/m2.
Student says: Nah fuck that noise, I have a light meter. Fuck academia I know this for real unlike you. Fuck you for quoting someone named Robert Van de Stein.
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dmtcorey
~The time police~
Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 1,041
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500947 - 11/26/10 09:03 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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the part where im a little confused is where your talking about solar radiation is measures at 1364 watts in 1 m sq before its filtered though cosmic dust and what not,then loosing haft its wattage as it reaches the earth.im only aware of measuring light in lumens so this solar radiation part has me confused .i understand you mean in 1 m sq that the sun produces the same amount of light as 650 watts of h.i.d light,but why cant this be measured in lumens instead of watts ?
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: dmtcorey]
#500973 - 11/26/10 12:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm sure it could be measured in lumens instead. Light from the sun is solar irradiation and most figures are in watts/sq meter maybe it's hard to calculate lumens in the upper atmosphere and lumens is a measure of visible light.
Also the light isn't absorbed/reflected much at all until it enters Earth's atmosphere. The dust guilty of absorbing light is in our atmosphere not outside.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,052
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500979 - 11/26/10 01:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
stoney.69 said:
Bleaching has nothing to do with the subject, honestly.
My 120 watt LED causes bleaching and it's not because it's stronger than the sun.
Bleaching is caused by an abundance of or lack of certain spectrum's of light.
Which is yet another reason the sun beats the shit of a any bulbs.
Quote:
maryanne3087 said:
I'd like to see bleaching caused by a lack of light. I can provide no light at all and I can only assume that would be a lack of every light spectrum.
An HPS will only cause bleaching when you're providing more light than the sun provides.
You sir need to learn to read.
At no point did I say a total lack of light would cause bleaching.
Nor did I refer to and h.i.d. light. which doesn't have the same balance of spectrum's as that of the sun anyways.
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Stoneth]
#501010 - 11/26/10 06:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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1. You're not going to correct bleaching from HPS lighting by adding more light of any spectrum. HPS light causing bleaching is going to be from too much light intensity. I've only seen it happen when running over 100+ watts/sq meter.
2. I misread what you wrote as I was in a rush and didn't realize the lack of certain spectrum's of light.
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#501012 - 11/26/10 06:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Another example of bleaching caused by too much light intensity and not a case of unbalanced light spectrum's would be any of the many understory plants that will bleach in full sunlight or under strong artificial light. It's safe to say any of these plants that bleach under full sunlight aren't bleaching due to the suns spectrum as they've spent their entire evolution under the sun, just in partially shaded sunlight.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 25,052
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#501016 - 11/26/10 07:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Links to these plants bleaching under souly natural light please.
Never seen or heard of one honestly.
Seen many under cfl's and led's, also a few under hid's, but not nature light.
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pheed
Stranger
Registered: 07/10/10
Posts: 23
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Stoneth]
#502375 - 12/01/10 05:21 PM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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This thread went way off-topic from when I started it, but anyhow, I had the 250W MH light dimmed to 150W, and 2.5 feet away. All the seeds have popped. The seedlings look great, but one of them (Jack Herer) has grown to 2.25 inches in just 1.5 days. So clearly it IS possible to get stretching with MH lights.
I lowered the light to 2 feet and switched it to 250W. I hope that solves the problem.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: pheed]
#502378 - 12/01/10 05:28 PM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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It's possible to get stretching with any light. Esp if you don't have it the right distance from the plants.
These were less distance then 2.5 feet from a 600.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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jkell
Midnight toker
Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 512
Loc: Don' worry bout it
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#502472 - 12/01/10 11:55 PM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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Isn't Jack a near 100% sativa though, so isnt't farther node spacing to be expected?
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punkrocker292004
Stranger
Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 295
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: jkell]
#502475 - 12/02/10 12:15 AM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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take yer light meter and shove it up yer ass
I like to put up posts like this cause I'm a fucking dick. 
Edited by Magash (12/02/10 01:14 AM)
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pheed
Stranger
Registered: 07/10/10
Posts: 23
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: jkell]
#502480 - 12/02/10 01:26 AM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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It's definitely not close to 100 percent, and there's quite a range in phenotypes. Some Jacks are more indica with fatter leaves, and some more sativa. This is especially true for Jack seeds from GHSC, as opposed to Sensi. Jack Herer is a Sensi strain, and they seem to have the sativa pheno dialed in for their seeds, but Green House seems to be less reliable with their version.
Quote:
jkell said:
Isn't Jack a near 100% sativa though, so isnt't farther node spacing to be expected?
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jkell
Midnight toker
Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 512
Loc: Don' worry bout it
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: pheed]
#502483 - 12/02/10 01:37 AM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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maryanne3087
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 1,111
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: jkell]
#502491 - 12/02/10 02:50 AM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
jkell said:
http://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/jack_herer_seeds.html
http://www.weed-seeds.net/jack_herer_seeds.html
http://strainreview.com/jack-herrer/
I see mostly sativa
It's more sativa than indica. I think 62.5% as it's 50% haze, 25% skunk, 25% northern lights. I'm fairly sure JH has the same breeding layout as SuperSilverHaze and MangoHaze.
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