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 pheed
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Registered: 07/10/10
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 using MH light for seedlings? 
#500212 - 11/22/10 10:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've read that during veg, a 250W MH light can be about ten inches from the tops of the plants, but that for seedlings, MH lights shouldn't be used at all unless they are kept 3-4 feet away. Won't this cause stretching?
My Lumatek digital ballast will let me dim the light to 100, 150, or 175 watts. Could I just dim the light for seedlings without having to move the light so far away?
I should mention my light is in a cool tube...
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TheShroomJew23
The Chemist
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: pheed]
#500213 - 11/22/10 10:59 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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The reason fluorescents cause stretching is because their light intensity drops off extremely quickly within a few inches away from the light source. Whereas MH and HPS have very strong intensities. We keep the lights so far away during seedling and into vegetative because they simply can't handle the intensity so they die.
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Goombah
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: TheShroomJew23]
#500303 - 11/23/10 11:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I used 1000w MH on my seedlings (about 8 days old) at about 4' away. The plants didn't suffer at all. No stretching whatsoever.
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TheShroomJew23
The Chemist
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Goombah]
#500310 - 11/23/10 12:21 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the backup Goombah
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 Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: TheShroomJew23]
#500312 - 11/23/10 12:59 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fuck this drives me out of my fucking mind. Ok, that wasn't meant to be aimed at you but I have no idea where the fuck this seedlings can't handle strong light shit came from. They start in the sun out in the wild. Even mild sun is way brighter then any hid light.
I've started so many seedlings under 1000 watt lights raised up to the tops of the other plants I can't even begin to count.
These are Nirvana AK-48 started under 1000watt MH and still doing just fine under it.
The only real way to fuck up seedlings under hid's is to put them to close and cook them.
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Inverted
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#500340 - 11/23/10 02:32 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
They start in the sun out in the wild. Even mild sun is way brighter then any hid light.
The only real way to fuck up seedlings under hid's is to put them to close and cook them.
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#500429 - 11/23/10 08:40 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
Fuck this drives me out of my fucking mind. Ok, that wasn't meant to be aimed at you but I have no idea where the fuck this seedlings can't handle strong light shit came from. They start in the sun out in the wild. Even mild sun is way brighter then any hid light.
I grow my seedlings under HID also. The sun is not brighter than any HID, it's actually very easy to provide more light concentration than the sun even on the clearest days at high noon even with cfls.
Have you ever seen any leaf bleaching on any cannabis plants outdoors? Probably not. Have you ever seen leaf bleaching on cannabis plants indoors? Probably if you run a lot of watts/m2.
A 600w over a 3x3' canopy has stronger light intensity than the sun (barely), I believe a 600w over a 3x3' canopy is supposed to match the strongest sun light exposure possible in nature. Then considering that the sun is only brightest once a day and there's clouds to block it frequently growers can and usually do provide much more light throughout the day then their plants would get outdoors. Weather or not it's a bit less or a bit more, a grower can choose to provide far more than 600w over a 3x3' canopy if he or she so wishes, which would far exceed the sun's capability.
I believe that a typical meter squared gets 1kw at high noon during summer at the upper atmosphere but much is absorbed by dust, ozone, water vapor, etc and about half of that reaches the ground.
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: TheShroomJew23]
#500439 - 11/23/10 08:58 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TheShroomJew23 said:
The reason fluorescents cause stretching is because their light intensity drops off extremely quickly within a few inches away from the light source. Whereas MH and HPS have very strong intensities. We keep the lights so far away during seedling and into vegetative because they simply can't handle the intensity so they die.
This would only be applicable for florescent lights that are far away from plants.
Stretching has a lot to do with color spectrum
ie. red to far red ratio influencing phytochrome response
ie. blue spectrum influencing crytochrome response which controls elongation and photoperiodism
Phototropin also responds to blue light and are responsible for elongation and environmental response, they're also active before the crytochrome and control the first elongation of the plant (controls your seedlings being stout or stretchy skinny bitches)
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Magash
The Feminizer
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500487 - 11/24/10 01:38 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
A 600w over a 3x3' canopy has stronger light intensity than the sun (barely), I believe a 600w over a 3x3' canopy is supposed to match the strongest sun light exposure possible in nature.
Yeah maybe if the light meter is pressed up against the bulb otherwise your reading crap from books again but take the meter outside and tell me this cause I can tell you for a fact that a reading from a 1000watt HPS at 2 feet isn't as bright as outdoor light at noon. Not in California anyway. You must be taking readings from the top of Mount Kilimanjaro.
Quote:
concentration than the sun even on the clearest days at high noon even with cfls.
Not a chance in hell. Maybe high noon in Alaska during the winter.
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#500492 - 11/24/10 02:06 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, I do prefer to get my information from books rather than cereal boxes. I'm sorry you have a problem with this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation
Solar irradiance measures 1366 w/sq m the max is also 1413 w/sq m apparently and I'm fairly sure California isn't an exception nor is it the brightest place on earth. This is already beatable but would be rather extreme. HOWEVER this is without any ozone, clouds, dust, etc to absorb any of it. After losing more than half of this to all that crap you're left well less than half  leaving you with often less than what a 600w will provide over a 3x3' canopy.
A trusted cultivator on here says something more or less exactly the same as wiki and a million other websites. Who knows though maybe none of them had access to a light meter? 
http://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/282827#282827
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pheed
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500493 - 11/24/10 02:44 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for all the replies. Interesting discussion...
My tent is just 55 inches tall, so the maximum I can probably keep the light is 3' from the seedlings. I'll probably try 2.5 feet with the metal halide dimmed to 150W for the first few days. Unless anyone has any objections??
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: pheed]
#500494 - 11/24/10 02:54 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dimming it should work fine. I used my 600w's at full blast at around 3' or maybe a less. I used a bare bulb though because I was scared of a hot spot at that point and didn't need crazy light intensity.
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Magash
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087] 1
#500567 - 11/24/10 12:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Yes, I do prefer to get my information from books rather than cereal boxes
No the difference between us is I actually grow and do this stuff rather then quote stuff without ever trying it. I'm sure by your answer you don't even own a light meter why don't you try going to the hydro store and try using one under a bulb and one under natural light.
California sunlight 9537 lumens at 10:36am not exactly the bright point of the day.
10563 lumens at 11:15am which is brighter then what Cervantes says a 600 can do when hung at 3 feet which is what he says to hang them at to get brightest coverage over the entire 3x3 foot space. p.179
HPS 600 at 3 feet according to somebody you love to quote can only do 10000 max he also says to start seedlings under a 400watt light cause it is most like "the less intense sunlight of early spring" p.131
Quote:
HOWEVER this is without any ozone, clouds, dust, etc to absorb any of it.
Since most of us here at this site don't own a space shuttle and take our readings down here on the surface of the earth this doesn't even come into play other then to make your answer seem more complicated then it really is.
and I do know this have a 6 ft plant outdoors and the meter reads the exact same at the top of the plant as it does at the bottom. That doesn't happen under any bulb. Why is that exactly one may just be a little brighter.
So to anybody out there take your light meter and go to the edge of your garden. Take a reading and then take one out in the sun and post your results. Besides what is the best way to learn? Reading crap on forums no matter who is posting it or actually going out and doing it yourself and seeing with your own eyes?
last but not least to get the light to the plants in amounts higher then you would find outside you would have to have every plant the exact same distance from the bulb. Maybe Wiki has a answer for this.
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#500576 - 11/24/10 01:31 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've quoted Jorge Cervantes once, only for lack of better information which was stated. Never have I quoted Jorge Cervantes and said I hold him in high regard.
Quote:
California sunlight 9537 lumens at 10:36am not exactly the bright point of the day.
10563 lumens at 11:15am which is brighter then what Cervantes says a 600 can do when hung at 3 feet which is what he says to hang them at to get brightest coverage over the entire 3x3 foot space. p.179
HPS 600 at 3 feet according to somebody you love to quote can only do 10000 max he also says to start seedlings under a 400watt light cause it is most like "the less intense sunlight of early spring" p.131
You're comparing the sun to a single light it is very easy to provide more than 600w over a 3x3' canopy I can easily run twice that light which would exceed the suns irradiance capability under any circumstances even if ozone, dust, water vapor, etc were all not a factor (which lowers it's brightness on the surface of earth by over 50%). 3' high is also very high I'd consider that height if using none air cooled reflectors.
Quote:
Since most of us here at this site don't own a space shuttle and take our readings down here on the surface of the earth this doesn't even come into play other then to make your answer seem more complicated then it really is.
I'm sorry you didn't understand... Those readings would be the same on the surface of the earth if there wasn't any ozone, clouds, dust, water vapor, etc to absorb or reflect any of the light. Solar irradiation doesn't diminish very much which is why we can see stars so far away they may not even exist anymore.
Quote:
and I do know this have a 6 ft plant outdoors and the meter reads the exact same at the top of the plant as it does at the bottom. That doesn't happen under any bulb. Why is that exactly one may just be a little brighter.
Solar irradiation doesn't diminish on such a rapid scale, doesn't have anything to do with brightness.
Quote:
So to anybody out there take your light meter and go to the edge of your garden. Take a reading and then take one out in the sun and post your results. Besides what is the best way to learn? Reading crap on forums no matter who is posting it or actually going out and doing it yourself and seeing with your own eyes?
First hand experience is no doubt valuable to an observer however you obviously have some problems with facts of science. You seem to convince yourself a lot of things that are bullshit are science fact. In actual science people are proven wrong all the time, often by themselves so it shouldn't be surprising that your assumptions are often incorrect. This is subject on solar irradiation is not debatable it's easily observed today and there are literally thousands of papers published by universities that will back up what I posted.
last but not least to get the light to the plants in amounts higher then you would find outside you would have to have every plant the exact same distance from the bulb. Maybe Wiki has a answer for this.
Also not true this almost makes no sense at all. It would not be hard to provide more light than the sun can provide over an entire 3x3 or larger canopy. Some spots would be brighter than others but the entire canopy can exceed the suns output.
Quote:
No the difference between us is I actually grow and do this stuff rather then quote stuff without ever trying it. I'm sure by your answer you don't even own a light meter why don't you try going to the hydro store and try using one under a bulb and one under natural light.
I actually grow and have been for many years. Much of the stuff I post is from first hand knowledge or is researched from university studies which are nearly in the strictest sense indisputable truth.
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500615 - 11/24/10 03:59 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
maryanne3087 said:
Quote:
Magash said:
Fuck this drives me out of my fucking mind. Ok, that wasn't meant to be aimed at you but I have no idea where the fuck this seedlings can't handle strong light shit came from. They start in the sun out in the wild. Even mild sun is way brighter then any hid light.
I grow my seedlings under HID also. The sun is not brighter than any HID, it's actually very easy to provide more light concentration than the sun even on the clearest days at high noon even with cfls.
Have you ever seen any leaf bleaching on any cannabis plants outdoors? Probably not. Have you ever seen leaf bleaching on cannabis plants indoors? Probably if you run a lot of watts/m2.
A 600w over a 3x3' canopy has stronger light intensity than the sun (barely), I believe a 600w over a 3x3' canopy is supposed to match the strongest sun light exposure possible in nature. Then considering that the sun is only brightest once a day and there's clouds to block it frequently growers can and usually do provide much more light throughout the day then their plants would get outdoors. Weather or not it's a bit less or a bit more, a grower can choose to provide far more than 600w over a 3x3' canopy if he or she so wishes, which would far exceed the sun's capability.
I believe that a typical meter squared gets 1kw at high noon during summer at the upper atmosphere but much is absorbed by dust, ozone, water vapor, etc and about half of that reaches the ground.
The sun is equivalent to 1,081 Watts of HID light, and obviously you can bleach a Cannabis plant indoors but you'd have to be a complete fool to keep your lighting that close to your plants/canopy...
I would like to see proof w/ pictures of a light meter reading the same output at canopy level under a 600w, and another at the most intense sunlight of the day... I strongly believe that the sun is going to put up better numbers, however like you say, there are full days of overcast skies, thunderstorms, also from dawn to dusk, the sun starts out weak, becomes intense, then back to being weak before disappearing below the horizon. IMO, if the sun turned on and off like an HID bulb, with consistent intensity, that it would outperform many lighting systems. However, there are always exceptions to the rules it seems haha
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Inverted]
#500619 - 11/24/10 04:07 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Even if you find some place with slightly higher nature sunlight than a 600w over a 3x3' canopy I'm certain it won't be much stronger esp throughout the entire day and you can't add more sunlight but you can always add another light.
Magash's claim was the sun can not be beaten by artificial light then the only hope he had to attempt to maintain that claim was comparing sunlight to a limited light source(a single bulb) or a 600w hung at 3'
Edited by maryanne3087 (11/24/10 04:09 PM)
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Inverted
CNC Machinist/Greenthumb
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500656 - 11/24/10 06:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok I gotcha, I was just throwing my 2 cents out there...
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Magash
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Inverted]
#500677 - 11/24/10 07:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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The reason I chose the 600watt bulb as a reference point is cause you originally posted this line
Quote:
I believe a 600w over a 3x3' canopy is supposed to match the strongest sun light exposure possible in nature.
It does not.
I was working with your numbers. So fuck you when it comes to this line of crap.
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then the only hope he had to attempt to maintain that claim was comparing sunlight to a limited light source(a single bulb) or a 600w hung at 3'
Just how many cfl's did you plan to use when you said this
Quote:
it's actually very easy to provide more light concentration than the sun even on the clearest days at high noon even with cfls.
Quote:
Solar irradiation doesn't diminish on such a rapid scale, doesn't have anything to do with brightness.
So your saying that light doesn't diminish the further you get away from the bulb because it doesn't under the sun. I'm talking light used by the plant to grow at high noon since those were your numbers. Remember "I believe a 600w over a 3x3' canopy is supposed to match the strongest sun light exposure possible in nature." In order to do that it would have to be usable light by the plant to grow in equal amounts from the top of the plant to the bottom. Not gonna happen with bulbs and if the entire plant gets more light that it can use to grow it's gonna yield more then one that only gets the bright light on the tops of the plants.
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Midnight
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 Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#500680 - 11/24/10 08:04 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#500682 - 11/24/10 08:32 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mary-I believe a 600w over a 3x3' canopy is supposed to match the strongest sun light exposure possible in nature.
Magash-It does not
Even if the sun can beat a single 600w over a 3x3' at certain times of day, the averages are probably lower, and the sun is definitely without a doubt not as strong as 2x600w over a similar canopy or a single horizontal and a single vertical. - Fact is a grower isn't limited to a 3x3' canopy with a 600w light Fact is the sun has limitations Fact is there is only one sun Fact is the sun can be beaten without great difficulty.
CFLs can cause bleaching which is far exceeding the sun's output. There's some growers on ICmag who bleached their plants with CFLs and had to cut back. I forgot the guys handle but he has just under 500w of CFL over a 5.4 ft canopy and that makes for over 10 000 lumens a sq ft. So if I wanted to beat the sun with CFLs I would use slightly more?
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Magash
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500684 - 11/24/10 08:45 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Fact is a grower isn't limited to a 3x3' canopy with a 600w light Fact is the sun has limitations Fact is there is only one sun Fact is the sun can be beaten without great difficulty.
I never said a grower was. You said as I have pointed out many times already that a 600 watt over a 3x3 foot area was stronger then the sun at it's brightest any place on earth. I said that is wrong and it is and you took it from there.
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500w of CFL over a 5.4 ft canopy and that makes for over 10 000 lumens
You may wanna check this cause I'm thinking that if a 600watt hps is 10000 lumens it's gonna take way more then 500w of cfl to get to the same output. I'm not sure about this but only a 100w difference to get to the same amount of light seems funny.
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#500695 - 11/24/10 09:19 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I never said a grower was. You said as I have pointed out many times already that a 600 watt over a 3x3 foot area was stronger then the sun at it's brightest any place on earth. I said that is wrong and it is and you took it from there.
You said, the sun can not be beaten by artificial light. Quote:
Even mild sun is way brighter then any hid light.
I did reply that I believed a 600w over a 3x3' canopy is meant to out right beat any sunlight perhaps this isn't true but it's not very far from the truth either and definitely beats most of the worlds light exposure on a daily average. Either way HID lights can and will provide more light than the sun can regardless if the grower has to use an impractical amount of lighting over an area ie. 2 x 600w over a 3x3' area.
Quote:
500w of CFL over a 5.4 ft canopy and that makes for over 10 000 lumens
You may wanna check this cause I'm thinking that if a 600watt hps is 10000 lumens it's gonna take way more then 500w of cfl to get to the same output. I'm not sure about this but only a 100w difference to get to the same amount of light seems funny.
It's all relative to the area you're lighting. His canopy is 5.4 sq ft and I don't remember the exact wattage and I did say that I would use more in the case where I were to beat the sun. I am not by any means saying I would use CFLs for growing, only that they can provide more lumens than the sun. I could easily triple this figure over the same or even a smaller area he provided this lighting only as horizontal lighting.
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Stoneth
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500836 - 11/25/10 03:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bleaching has nothing to do with the subject, honestly.
My 120 watt LED causes bleaching and it's not because it's stronger than the sun.
Bleaching is caused by an abundance of or lack of certain spectrum's of light.
Which is yet another reason the sun beats the shit of a any bulbs.
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dmtcorey
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Stoneth]
#500846 - 11/25/10 05:32 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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huffy sqoble,..huffy sqoble !he he he..
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dmtcorey
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: dmtcorey]
#500851 - 11/25/10 06:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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correct me if im wrong ,all this boils down to is an experiment of taking a reading of lumens 3 feet away from a 600 watt bulb at canopy level and comparing the reading to a reading taken under the sun to see what puts out more lumens ? sounds to simple!
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Stoneth]
#500924 - 11/26/10 02:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd like to see bleaching caused by a lack of light. I can provide no light at all and I can only assume that would be a lack of every light spectrum.
An HPS will only cause bleaching when you're providing more light than the sun provides.
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: dmtcorey]
#500925 - 11/26/10 02:53 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dmtcorey said:
correct me if im wrong ,all this boils down to is an experiment of taking a reading of lumens 3 feet away from a 600 watt bulb at canopy level and comparing the reading to a reading taken under the sun to see what puts out more lumens ? sounds to simple!
If you want to solve the argument the sun can not be beaten by artificial light you need to realize that the sun has limitations and the grower doesn't in his or her ability to add multiple lights to exceed 1364 watts/sq meter minus whatever sunlight is reflected away or absorbed before reaching the sun's surface (over 50%).
I wonder how the argument would have gone if Harry_ballsach argued the same point. There's a certain taboo to sound science on this forum that would not be tolerated in any sort of scientific discussion. How would someone look if something along the lines of this went down in a classroom?
Professor says: Today we're going to learn about irradiance.
Student says: Great, but the sun can't be beaten by artificial light
Professor says: Well the sun beams down solar radiation measured at 1364 w/ sq meter to earth however half of that is absorbed or reflected by ozone, water vapor, dust/debris, and components of our atmosphere other than the listed, leaving us with something something around ~650w/m2.
Student says: Nah fuck that noise, I have a light meter. Fuck academia I know this for real unlike you. Fuck you for quoting someone named Robert Van de Stein.
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dmtcorey
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500947 - 11/26/10 09:03 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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the part where im a little confused is where your talking about solar radiation is measures at 1364 watts in 1 m sq before its filtered though cosmic dust and what not,then loosing haft its wattage as it reaches the earth.im only aware of measuring light in lumens so this solar radiation part has me confused .i understand you mean in 1 m sq that the sun produces the same amount of light as 650 watts of h.i.d light,but why cant this be measured in lumens instead of watts ?
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: dmtcorey]
#500973 - 11/26/10 12:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm sure it could be measured in lumens instead. Light from the sun is solar irradiation and most figures are in watts/sq meter maybe it's hard to calculate lumens in the upper atmosphere and lumens is a measure of visible light.
Also the light isn't absorbed/reflected much at all until it enters Earth's atmosphere. The dust guilty of absorbing light is in our atmosphere not outside.
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Stoneth
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
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Posts: 25,052
Loc: No where ville, USA
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#500979 - 11/26/10 01:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
stoney.69 said:
Bleaching has nothing to do with the subject, honestly.
My 120 watt LED causes bleaching and it's not because it's stronger than the sun.
Bleaching is caused by an abundance of or lack of certain spectrum's of light.
Which is yet another reason the sun beats the shit of a any bulbs.
Quote:
maryanne3087 said:
I'd like to see bleaching caused by a lack of light. I can provide no light at all and I can only assume that would be a lack of every light spectrum.
An HPS will only cause bleaching when you're providing more light than the sun provides.
You sir need to learn to read.
At no point did I say a total lack of light would cause bleaching.
Nor did I refer to and h.i.d. light. which doesn't have the same balance of spectrum's as that of the sun anyways.
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Stoneth]
#501010 - 11/26/10 06:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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1. You're not going to correct bleaching from HPS lighting by adding more light of any spectrum. HPS light causing bleaching is going to be from too much light intensity. I've only seen it happen when running over 100+ watts/sq meter.
2. I misread what you wrote as I was in a rush and didn't realize the lack of certain spectrum's of light.
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#501012 - 11/26/10 06:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Another example of bleaching caused by too much light intensity and not a case of unbalanced light spectrum's would be any of the many understory plants that will bleach in full sunlight or under strong artificial light. It's safe to say any of these plants that bleach under full sunlight aren't bleaching due to the suns spectrum as they've spent their entire evolution under the sun, just in partially shaded sunlight.
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Stoneth
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#501016 - 11/26/10 07:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Links to these plants bleaching under souly natural light please.
Never seen or heard of one honestly.
Seen many under cfl's and led's, also a few under hid's, but not nature light.
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pheed
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Stoneth]
#502375 - 12/01/10 05:21 PM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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This thread went way off-topic from when I started it, but anyhow, I had the 250W MH light dimmed to 150W, and 2.5 feet away. All the seeds have popped. The seedlings look great, but one of them (Jack Herer) has grown to 2.25 inches in just 1.5 days. So clearly it IS possible to get stretching with MH lights.
I lowered the light to 2 feet and switched it to 250W. I hope that solves the problem.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: pheed]
#502378 - 12/01/10 05:28 PM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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It's possible to get stretching with any light. Esp if you don't have it the right distance from the plants.
These were less distance then 2.5 feet from a 600.
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jkell
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#502472 - 12/01/10 11:55 PM (14 years, 26 days ago) |
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Isn't Jack a near 100% sativa though, so isnt't farther node spacing to be expected?
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punkrocker292004
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: jkell]
#502475 - 12/02/10 12:15 AM (14 years, 25 days ago) |
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take yer light meter and shove it up yer ass
I like to put up posts like this cause I'm a fucking dick. 
Edited by Magash (12/02/10 01:14 AM)
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pheed
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: jkell]
#502480 - 12/02/10 01:26 AM (14 years, 25 days ago) |
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It's definitely not close to 100 percent, and there's quite a range in phenotypes. Some Jacks are more indica with fatter leaves, and some more sativa. This is especially true for Jack seeds from GHSC, as opposed to Sensi. Jack Herer is a Sensi strain, and they seem to have the sativa pheno dialed in for their seeds, but Green House seems to be less reliable with their version.
Quote:
jkell said:
Isn't Jack a near 100% sativa though, so isnt't farther node spacing to be expected?
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jkell
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: pheed]
#502483 - 12/02/10 01:37 AM (14 years, 25 days ago) |
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: jkell]
#502491 - 12/02/10 02:50 AM (14 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
jkell said:
http://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/jack_herer_seeds.html
http://www.weed-seeds.net/jack_herer_seeds.html
http://strainreview.com/jack-herrer/
I see mostly sativa
It's more sativa than indica. I think 62.5% as it's 50% haze, 25% skunk, 25% northern lights. I'm fairly sure JH has the same breeding layout as SuperSilverHaze and MangoHaze.
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pheed
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: jkell]
#502553 - 12/02/10 11:47 AM (14 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
jkell said:
http://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/jack_herer_seeds.html
http://www.weed-seeds.net/jack_herer_seeds.html
http://strainreview.com/jack-herrer/
I see mostly sativa
Yeah well, go to the Green House Seed Company subforum at icmag, and you'll see lots of people complaining about GHSC Jack often being more indica than sativa, with pictures to prove it. And here's a quote from GHSC's Franco himself, trying to explain why:
Quote:
no way. JH is a sativa indica cross. The original from Sensi was never sativa dominant....
there were several sativa doiminant phenos around in the late 1990s and early 2000s, because people isolated those as mothers (proice per kg higher in the Dam...), but if you got 1000 seeds and check for variations, more than 50% are sat-ind very balanced 50/50, some sativa dom and some indica dom (and yours is for sure more towards the indica dom)
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: pheed]
#502585 - 12/02/10 02:36 PM (14 years, 25 days ago) |
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I don't trust Franco's or Jack's or whomever else explaining such things.
Jack Herer isn't the first seedline they fucked up on stealing. SuperSilverHaze, Neville's Haze, and El Nino are all clearly not what they're supposed to be. For example El Nino aka La Nina from Mr.Nice seed company was originally an extremely sativa leaning hybrid (80% sativa) and still is at Mr.Nice any bs that they say about having the original P1's wouldn't mean shit because they would need to select a F1 to play the role as one of pollen donors the best they could do if they had available to them is use seedstock (or clones if kept) and find a female sibling of the male components to make the most genuine F1 feminised seeds of old varieties.
The reason why Jack Herer from GHSco is indica dom is probably because they breed with a small ass population likely 2 parental mothers (as it's feminised) limiting the number of phenotypes available // % of expression instead of using larger populations which would yield more variety in phenotype expression.
IMO when ripping off a line and doing it right you either need to take the F1 seed and breed a few generations until you have two or more true breeding phenotypes and that will result in similar to F1 status. With Jack Herer I'd personally try to isolate a fat indica dom and an extreme sativa phenotype and see how a crossing at F3-F5 would preform.
Another option would be to breed large populations keeping all of the phenotypes within the seed line.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: maryanne3087]
#502713 - 12/02/10 10:37 PM (14 years, 25 days ago) |
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You know you guys can just go to Sensi and get the info on the strain
The cream of the crops and perhaps the most exquisite ganja you will ever encounter; this strain ranks as the most awarded variety in the history of harvest festivals. Nine awards and counting would be the pinnacle of recognition for any strain, yet Jack Herer manages to go a step further and bears the distinction of being distributed under prescription by Dutch pharmacies as a recognised variety of medicinal-grade cannabis.
Sensi’s champagne of strains is named in honour of Jack Herer, author of The Emperor Wears No Clothes. Through tireless activism and his landmark book, Jack Herer can take most of the credit for reminding the world that cannabis in all its forms has always been one of humankind’s most valuable resources, and that we can literally save the planet with hemp!
The sublime blend of tropical Sativa high and monstrous Indica resin production captured in Jack Herer must be seen and sampled to be believed. At their peak, buds are so thickly smothered with clear trichomes that they appear sugar-frosted or sparkling with dew-drops. This crystal-coating extends to spear-leaves, fan leaves and even to Jack’s stems and stalks.
Plants from seed show favourable variation, due to Jack Herer’s complex background and delicate balance right at the cusp of Sativa and Indica. Enhanced features from both sides of the family are strongly evident and are expressed in different combinations, allowing growers to select mother plants tailored to their circumstances and tastes.
Three of Jack’s four main phenotypes are heavily Sativa-influenced while the fourth has a growth pattern leaning towards Indica - fast-flowering and relatively compact with a dense, expansive, rounded bud structure that’s suited to cash-cropping. Jack’s Sativa phenotypes can also produce a good per-metre or per-plant yield when cultivated skilfully, though it is rare for these crops to be sold commercially. Most growers who have watched their succulent, super-sized calyxes swell and mature will be hesitant to sell such buds, and the best Jack Herer is often passed around a select circle of friends - an example of one of those things that money just can’t buy.
The trait common to all Jack Herer phenotypes is a dazzling double-edged potency - a stratospheric cerebral high underpinned by a breathtaking body-buzz with seismic power. Smokers should be prepared to feel the earth shake beneath their feet - which can be a very pleasant feeling when your head is firmly in the clouds.
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Join us at the Growery!
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maryanne3087
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Re: using MH light for seedlings? [Re: Magash]
#502768 - 12/03/10 12:06 PM (14 years, 24 days ago) |
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That doesn't tell you much about the GHSco version rip off.
Which is apparently Haze x Red Skunk.
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