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 THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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 Re: Protesting military funerals  [Re: niteowl]
#486425 - 10/09/10 04:06 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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They have every right to be doing what they are doing. There should be restrictions I think on how close you can be to said funeral but their right to protest in the way that they are is protected as it should be.
Also these aren't "typical American chistians." Also violence will not reach these people. In a way they're a protest themselves against christianity, which is why so many christians are the ones wishing for their freedom of assembly and speech to be taken away. They give christianity a worse image than it already has, and people don't like to discriminate, it's easy to generalize and lump them into christianity as a whole, when really they probably have the lowest member base of any denomination of christianity.
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day. 
Edited by THEBats (10/09/10 04:08 PM)
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kyuzo
Stranger Than Fiction
Registered: 07/05/10
Posts: 981
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#486433 - 10/09/10 04:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Harry_Ba11sach said:You know what's sad is that Phelps will very likely win that case. His freedom of expression is very firmly indoctrinated in the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights. Although it's highly offensive and divisive to the wellbeing of America, his right to be that big of a cunt is inarguably protected. 
But the entire point of civil liberties, such as freedom of speech, is to protect the rights of the minority. After all, it's not people with ideas that everyone agrees with that are most likely to be suppressed. Making the protection of the rights of people like Phelps vitally important
PS and from the ACLU brief I read, you couldn't even see and here phelps from the funeral. And apparently what initiated the suit was the father reading an article some days after the funeral
Here's a good read on the matter:
<<<The first time I saw those signs, with their vivid neon colors and crude images of stick figures, was 16 years ago. "Fags Die, God Laughs." "No Tears for Queers." "God Hates Fags." Like most people seeing a Westboro Baptist Church picket for the first time, I was shocked, then outraged. It happened at the funeral of a friend who had died of AIDS. Seeing those signs left me in tears.
I came out in the early 90's in Lawrence, Kansas, just 25 miles from the home of Fred Phelps and his followers. As I became increasingly involved in local lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender activism, I started seeing the Westboro picketers on a regular basis. They showed up anytime we put on an event and sometimes at completely incongruous ones — the annual production of The Nutcracker in Topeka, for example. In 1994 they traveled to my Arkansas hometown to protest at the funeral of President Clinton's mother. My mom called me, asking, "Who on earth are these crazy people from Topeka?"
Phelps was mainly known locally in those days but his views eventually started getting more national attention. He grabbed broader notice in 1998 after Matthew Shepard was brutally killed in an anti-gay hate crime in Wyoming. Shepard's murder garnered national attention and Westboro's picketers showed up at the funeral, shocking and upsetting thousands of mourners. So I wasn't at all surprised a few years ago when Phelps and his followers began picketing at the funerals of American soldiers killed in Iraq, nor was I surprised at the hurt and fury his presence at these heartbreaking moments caused to those who had just lost loved ones. I understood firsthand how they felt.
Many years after first seeing those signs, I started working at the American Civil Liberties Union. One of the things that becomes clear as you look at the ACLU's work over the years is that government censorship has long been used to silence unpopular minorities, including LGBT people. The ACLU's first gay rights case was in 1936, when we defended the play The Children's Hour after it was banned in Boston because of its "lesbian content." From our defense of a San Francisco publisher and bookstore owner who was charged with printing and selling indecent books for releasing Alan Ginsberg's Howl, to our case just last year standing up for the right of students at a public high school in Florida to wear rainbow t-shirts or the one this year defending Constance McMillen's right to take her girlfriend to her senior prom, we have successfully fought back when government has sought to silence LGBT people. We would have never been able to make the tremendous progress we have made in the struggle for LGBT equality without being able to talk openly about what it means to be who we are. Who can doubt that had it been up the government in the 1950's — or to many state governments today — we wouldn't be able to come out at all.
It's because you simply can't blindly trust the government with the power to censor that the First Amendment grants all Americans, regardless of their views, the right to express themselves. The ACLU has defended the free speech rights of many types of groups, from the International Society for Krishna Consciousness to the KKK. We don't do that because we agree with either. We do it because we believe in the principle, and because we realize that once you chip away at one person's rights, everyone else's are at risk. It's because of this that the ACLU submitted a friend-of-the-court brief in a case heard by the U.S. Supreme Court yesterday about an appeal being brought by Westboro Baptist Church. The appeal comes after a federal jury awarded $10.9 million (which the judge later reduced to $5 million) to the father of Matthew Snyder, a Marine whose funeral was picketed by Westboro Baptist Church. In the brief, we pointed out that the First Amendment's protection of freedom of speech guarantees that no one can be found liable for merely expressing an opinion about a matter of public concern, regardless of how hurtful those opinions might be.
I can imagine the pain and the anger that Matthew Snyder's family felt upon seeing those signs. Those feelings are real and valid, and I feel nothing but sympathy for that family's suffering. But free speech doesn't belong only to those we agree with, and the First Amendment doesn't only protect speech that is tasteful and inoffensive. In fact, it is in the hard cases that our commitment to the First Amendment is most tested and most important. As one federal judge has put it, tolerating hateful speech is "the best protection we have against any Nazi-type regime in this country."
In this case, we believe that the jury verdict violated First Amendment principles that protect the free speech rights of everyone. We want to protect those principles, which have always been essential to the advancement of civil rights, including the civil rights of LGBT people. Allowing Fred Phelps to speak his mind may be difficult, but chipping away at one of the fundamental principles on which our country was founded is far, far worse for all of us in the long run.>>>
http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech-lgbt-rights/why-fred-phelpss-free-speech-rights-should-matter-us-all
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: kyuzo]
#486436 - 10/09/10 04:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah I got to admit, I'm kind of surprised to see Harry say that. I would've expected you to know and understand why his speech is protected, as it should be.
I lived in Topeka for almost a year and I've personally seen their church, and a few of their family members went to my high school.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
Edited by THEBats (10/09/10 04:36 PM)
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 Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal 
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: THEBats]
#486443 - 10/09/10 04:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Excuse me if I'm wrong, but didn't my post specifically say that their rights were intrinsically protected by numerous governmental doctrines?
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#486446 - 10/09/10 05:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes but you implied that they shouldn't be.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
Edited by THEBats (10/09/10 05:13 PM)
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: THEBats]
#486452 - 10/09/10 05:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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i picked that up too.
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Tina
Alcoholic
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 1,174
Loc: Middle America
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#486587 - 10/09/10 11:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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i saw this on the news the other day.
those women are batshit crazy.
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: THEBats]
#486665 - 10/10/10 09:44 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
THEBats said:
Yes but you implied that they shouldn't be.
My bad, what I was trying to say was merely that their choice of actions is really saddening and detrimental to the overall wellbeing of the country. In no way did I mean to imply that they should lose their right to free speech or anything, just that sometimes that right can be as harmful as anything
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 12 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: Harry_Ba11sach]
#486712 - 10/10/10 04:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think their should be some restrictions to the freedom of speech personally. But the problem with allowing them to be restricted some of the time means that it could gradually get more and more oppressive.
Regardless I almost went to the "1 million fag march" in topeka a few months ago just to see some phelps people get pissed off. Like half the people I know from high school that are still around went.
You know the reason they are protesting the military funerals is because they think the government is to nice to gays.
They protested around where I am a lot, bikers started to surround the funerals with bikes to block out the noise and view of the protest. I personally couldn't blame anyone if they killed phelps, not saying they shouldn't be punished. But I'd probably send them a letter saying it was cool what they did or something.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Any restrictions on the freedom of speech is detrimental to this countries intentions and freedom.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 12 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: THEBats]
#486718 - 10/10/10 04:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
THEBats said:
Any restrictions on the freedom of speech is detrimental to this countries intentions and freedom.
Yea, but you know the purpose of the government is to be the will of the people.
If ever the majority of people in America wanted to restrict something in some way I say it is their right to do it.
But whatever, I don't really care. I just know I sure as hell will have fun at Fred Phelps Funeral when he dies. 
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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The will of the people doesn't extend to the rights delegated by both the constitution and the bill of rights. Those are restrictions that, in theory, are never to be superseded by majority vote. They belong to minorities and the majority alike.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 12 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: THEBats]
#486737 - 10/10/10 06:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
THEBats said:
The will of the people doesn't extend to the rights delegated by both the constitution and the bill of rights. Those are restrictions that, in theory, are never to be superseded by majority vote. They belong to minorities and the majority alike.
Yea, but if a majority don't like the way it is working. 
Regardless, constitutions are nice. But making 100% absolutes in it is stupid. Some countries don't even use a constitution as word of law, just guidelines to rule them. (although I think they tend to get more dictators then would be preferable).
I think Honduras is the specific one I am thinking of, but I am not certain.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Well then perhaps you should relocate to Honduras? The purpose of inalienable rights is just that, to protect minorities against social change. Making absolutes as far as restrictions I would agree, is stupid. Most of criminal law works in this manner. But making absolutes as far as freedom is insurance and necessary.
Ability to make small changes in regards to rights will only lead to more restriction. The jews weren't all of a sudden on Germany's shit list, really antisemitism was already alive prior to hitler receiving power. But thanks to government sanctions on restricting their rights it made it all the more easier for the common German to jump on the bandwagon.
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
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Thebooedocksaint
Dead Dictator
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 5,730
Loc: Wild & Free
Last seen: 12 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: THEBats]
#486751 - 10/10/10 06:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Which I understand. But I'm just affirming to me, it is so fucked up to protest any funeral, that if an exception were to be made it would be a pretty good thing to be such an exception.
Now I'm going to stfu though cuz I'm stoned as fuck.
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"Je pense, donc je suis (I am thinking, therefore I am)." -Rene Descartes
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THEBats
The Bridge Master
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 8,488
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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kickin-two-hundo said:
you know what i did in english class? I came to class stoned out of my mind every day, i chugged vodka in the back of class, i put dead fish in the ceiling tiles. i put a gallon of old milk and orange juice in the file cabinet before winter vacation. i brought snakes in a tied up sweater and let them loose during class. i didnt go to school to learn, i went because i had to. i didnt care, and i didn't fucking listen to that stupid bitch. and i still don't fucking care. i tore the pages out of her books and burned them, and threw away all the books in the class, two books per day.
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Shr0000ooooms
Cannabis Sampler
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3,870
Loc: Hindu Kush Mountains
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: THEBats]
#486814 - 10/10/10 09:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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how do you tell where they protest?
im going to hold up a sign saying "too bad god doesn't exist" or maybe "god forgets and forgives"
then once they touch me, BAM lawsuit.
get the cash flowin in.
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If I'm posting I'm high.
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Shr0000ooooms
Cannabis Sampler
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3,870
Loc: Hindu Kush Mountains
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: Shr0000ooooms]
#486816 - 10/10/10 09:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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also what's their name of the group?
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If I'm posting I'm high.
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#486859 - 10/11/10 06:17 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yea those WBC fucks were around me last week. I feel they can protest and say whatever the fuck they want. It's their right I sure as hell don't want any of my rights to be taken away. So let them protest funerals and what not.
Then again they are probably a reptilian front organization solely in existence to help slowly strip away our rights by "exercising" "our" rights in such a way that the majority of people would like the "right" to be removed so they no longer get butthurt over sign wielding fucks.
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FarBeyondDriven
Truthfully, I'm a bullshitter
Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 13,834
Loc: Greenbow, Alabama
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Re: Protesting military funerals [Re: Tangerines] 1
#486949 - 10/11/10 02:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I say let everyone keep their freedom of speech and all that, because like everyone said, I don't want it taken away from me. With that being said, it's just a matter of time before someone walks up to the leader, Phelps I believe it is, with a .357 and exercises his right They're gonna go to the wrong person's funeral one day.
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