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 Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US 
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 Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power!  [Re: lothario]
#255695 - 07/26/09 08:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lothario said:
What if I wanted to do a 12,000 watt grow? Are there any good ideas on generator usage? Would it be cost effective or even possible at all?
If i was going to do a 12KW operation i would take the extra precautions to make sure that you have a "mask" of some sort to not seem obvious to the power company.
Now im no expert on the meters they use...but I know that for $43,000, there is a 10KW solar panel setup, that, along with maybe a battery bank...would help reduce the apparent power consumption, as would switching to LED lights...where a 1000W equivalent only uses 300W. I know that some power companies' meters will spin backwards if you are generating more power than you are using. So if you spin it backwards during the day...then you can use power at night...so that the net usage is only about what your house normally uses without the lights.
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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 supersiege
Strangerer
Registered: 07/26/09
Posts: 110
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#255707 - 07/26/09 08:53 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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hey glad to be here! yeah some times ill cook my breakfast in the hood its great!
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: supersiege]
#266022 - 08/16/09 12:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just reread this thread again. Pretty good read.
Quote:
coda said:
you should watch that video to see why it's beneficial to run a MH alongside an HPS.
UVB light ftw!!
But the guy in the video mentioned adding a UVB light (reptile light or sun tanning light), not combinning the two HID lights. Does combining the two lights create UVB light?
The question that I have is more of a technical question that I could use some help with. My circuits are all 20 amps max. Right now I have one 400w MH/HPS running 18 hrs a day. I also have a small rotating fan that runs 24/7 in addition to a deionizer that runs 24/7. In addition to that I have a water pump and air pump that run for 30 min at a time 2x per day. That's all i have plugged in for this grow now. I am thinking that I am going to add another 400W light, when I flip to 12/12. So then I will be running 800w 12 hours a day plus the other stuff. I want to be careful not to exceed the max amperage and blow a circuit. Additionally, I might add a carbon filter/scrubber for smell at some point. Given that information does anyone have any ideas/thoughts/recommendations on the power consumption? I don't know how many watts the smaller items draw out. Hmm, now that I am thinking about it. I think i can use one of the calculations provided earlier in this thread.
W(watts)=A(amps)*V(voltage)
Let's estimate I have 1,000 watts here with everything added up, running 12 hours a day.
1,000 w = 120 volts * x (amps)
1,000 / 120 = x
x = 6.94 amps?!?!
Did I do that right?
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#266026 - 08/16/09 12:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just found this bit of info from a link that someone posted earlier in this thread. That's a pretty cool website too.
Quote:
So, to rephrase your question, how many watts can a circuit deliver before it's overloaded? Most modern residential circuits are 15 or 20 amps, so we're looking at a max load of either (15A x 120V =) 1800 watts or (20A x 120V =) 2400 watts before the breaker trips. The breaker will be labeled either 15 or 20. I'm unfamiliar with old-style fuse-type circuits but I'm guessing they're also around 15 or 20 amps.
For continuous loads (on for more than three hours) the limit is 20% lower. So for 15-amp breaker, you can't draw more than 12 amps from the circuit for more than three hours, or 1440 watts (12A x 120V). And what do you know, the wattage of a huge window-unit AC or a large electric space heater is... 1440 watts. (source 1, source 2)
Soooo, I think that I am OK, with the situation posted above. But please someone who has some knowledge if you could confirm this is correct, i would be most appreciative.
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Data
That Guy
Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 4,038
Loc: Southwestern US
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: FurrowedBrow]
#266121 - 08/16/09 03:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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with a 20A circuit you will be fine...if you are gonna be putting in 1500W worth of lighting though, I would try and split it up a little on different circuits...but 800W of lighting plus the accessory loads will not be a problem on a 20 amp circuit...
hope this helps
agmotes165
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“The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you” -NDT
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Data]
#266132 - 08/16/09 04:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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thank you kind sir!
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Ero42oH2o
master of the bush
Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 450
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Chronica]
#280588 - 09/15/09 11:00 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most if not all of that stuff is used on occasion. And it's not just the lights in my room. Fans, Pumps, Movers, Ac/Heaters, Filters, etc.. all play into a big overall cost. It is possible to provide the necessary light in a smaller cost fashion, but the technology is still very cutting edge in some cases and often an expensive or hard change for growers stuck in the convenience of HID lights. Like myself
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All of the statements and posts I make or have made are fake. I just found all the pictures and copied and pasted them here. I am in no way associated with any of the materials discussed here. I'm just bored, and lame.
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coda
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 4,736
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Ero42oH2o]
#280818 - 09/15/09 07:27 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Does combining the two lights create UVB light?
No. MH lamps by themselves produce UVB light.
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MFDoom666: sobriety kills my buzz every time.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
#280820 - 09/15/09 07:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh interesting. Thanks! Maybe I will replace one of my hps lights to mh. I wish i had a separate room where i could have a control group and a test group. I'd do mad experiments.
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lostinbq
!!!STARNGE!!!!
Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 581
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Hanky]
#417209 - 05/13/10 01:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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not only for thoes purposes but i kno ppl around here that use hid security lights at night!!!give or take the space thay make 70-1000w security lights... thats what is making me think of buying a 400 wat...
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Everyone are you ready for doom,
Because I've blackened the sun,
And I've bloodied the moon.
I bring gloom when I step in the room,
With the fumes of a tomb.
flowers bloom when Im taken away
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! (moved) [Re: Hanky]
#419191 - 05/17/10 09:04 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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 This thread was moved from Marijuana Cultivation.
Reason:
I need it 
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fungi
.
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 168
Loc: Silicon Sizzle, CA USA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Chronica]
#433861 - 06/16/10 09:59 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you run a 1000W HPS for a flowering room 12 hours, and then another 400W MH 18 hours for veg, on top of computers, it ended up being a good $100 more in power until I got on the low income power plan.
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Buddy
Mr.
Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 995
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: coda]
#435994 - 06/22/10 12:30 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
coda said:
Quote:
Does combining the two lights create UVB light?
No. MH lamps by themselves produce UVB light.
UVA and UVB are just different frequencies of light. Like red light is a different frequency than blue. Combining two light sources together won't change this at all.
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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro!
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fungi
.
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 168
Loc: Silicon Sizzle, CA USA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Data]
#436620 - 06/23/10 03:11 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
agmotes165 said:
with a 20A circuit you will be fine...if you are gonna be putting in 1500W worth of lighting though, I would try and split it up a little on different circuits...but 800W of lighting plus the accessory loads will not be a problem on a 20 amp circuit...
hope this helps
agmotes165
Just be careful with that one. Some houses / apt's aren't very good with old wiring.
Edited by fungi (07/09/10 03:25 AM)
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: fungi]
#436722 - 06/23/10 08:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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The only prob with the LED's the the light when compared is 1/3 as effective at plant growing as a equal amount of HID light.
Want cheap with less growth go with LED. Want to maximize your garden go HID.
There is a ton of info on this plus tons of side by side growth comparisons where I don't need to get into this.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
 Join us at the Growery!
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Crusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting
Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 786
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
#436733 - 06/23/10 09:17 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
The only prob with the LED's the the light when compared is 1/3 as effective at plant growing as a equal amount of HID light.
Wild statement. If you said flowering I would have let it go, but modern (1w+) LEDs already out-veg HIDs watt for watt.
As for flowering, everyone knows LEDs still trail HID's in watt for watt yield. The 1/3rd as effective statement is wildly inaccurate as you can't compare 30x 5w LEDs to 1,500 0.1w LEDs and then in turn compare them to a 150w HPS. It doesn't equate. And how does one begin to measure "effectiveness" anyways?
Quote:
Magash said:
Want cheap with less growth go with LED. Want to maximize your garden go HID.
First time I've ever heard someone describe LEDs as cheap in relation to HID.
If cost wasn't an issue I certainly wouldn't have HIDs in my garden.
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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LED lights are no way close to HID in growth vegetative or flowering. (unless of course a mile of space between the nodes is better veg growth.)
LED lights were all the rage up here. Everybody was hooting about how great they are of course they are quoting the info the light makers are giving out. Problem is every person who was showing me these lights and saying how great they are are back to HID again.
Funny how every person who praises these things only use LED and have never done a side by side comparison of them cause when they do they go back to HID.
Quote:
The 1/3rd as effective statement is wildly inaccurate as you can't compare 30x 5w LEDs to 1,500 0.1w LEDs and then in turn compare them to a 150w HPS
No what you do is compare equal amount of lumen's from each type of light and you get 1/3 the growth rates.
Quote:
but modern (1w+) LEDs already out-veg HIDs watt for watt.
Yeah if you believe everything your told. There is a reason the major bulb companies have done mass amounts of testing on LED lights as has NASA (who still use HID after they did their testing), Maximum Yield. Think of the money Hortilux could make from LED lights if all that was said about them was true.
I'm not saying LED won't be the next big thing but right now they aren't even close. I've seen countless numbers of these lights around here and two very good growers who bought all the crap and turned over their entire gardens at a rather massive cost to LED only to go back after the amount of money in yield lost was far more then the LED lights could save.
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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Crusty Ass Bastard
Pheno Hunting
Registered: 08/02/09
Posts: 786
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
#436853 - 06/24/10 08:15 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magash said:
LED lights are no way close to HID in growth vegetative or flowering. (unless of course a mile of space between the nodes is better veg growth.)
This is how I know you've never actually tried modern LEDs. The internode distance during veg is unquestionably shorter compared to HPS watt-for-watt. Blue spectrum produces tight internodes and short stocky plants during veg, red spectrum promotes stretchiness during veg. If you're stating a 600 watt HPS would keep closer internodes than a 600 watt blue/red LED I call total bullshit. I have at least 50 short, stocky vigorous plants vegged under LEDs that call bullshit too.
Quote:
The 1/3rd as effective statement is wildly inaccurate as you can't compare 30x 5w LEDs to 1,500 0.1w LEDs and then in turn compare them to a 150w HPS
Quote:
Magash said:No what you do is compare equal amount of lumen's from each type of light and you get 1/3 the growth rates.
You just stated that the growth rate seen under a light is based solely on its lumen output. Spectrum and PAR are laughing right now and so am I. You can't be serious.
LEDs are already outselling HIDs industry (think nursery) wide. They are searched for 2-3x as often on the internet and STILL sell for 2-3x the price watt for watt. Hortilux is known to have as much experience building LED units as I do, which is none. The entire nursery industry is diving into the LED pool head first, but since one overpriced bulb company isn't getting their feet wet that is somehow an indictment on LEDs? Pff.
Quote:
Magash said:Funny how every person who praises these things only use LED and have never done a side by side comparison of them cause when they do they go back to HID.
I've used 150w, 400w, 600w HIDs and 14w, 45w, 55w, and 120w LED fixtures. I've vegged my last 50+ plants under LEDs. The only lights I've gotten rid of are the 150w HPS and 400w HPS. The 600w HPS will be the next to go, its just not cost-effective yet.
There are ways to extoll the virtues of HID without further distorting the facts about LEDs.
Edited by Crusty Ass Bastard (06/24/10 08:38 AM)
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Quote:
If you're stating a 600 watt HPS would keep closer internodes than a 600 watt blue/red LED I call total bullshit. I have at least 50 short, stocky vigorous plants vegged under LEDs that call bullshit too.
Really cause I have about a 1000 plants in veg that I'd be willing to bet smoke every one of those under the LEDs.
So great One person who has a small garden is praising LEDs. They may be great for growing roses or whatever is in your pic but for buds if they were all that everybody would be using them by now they are nothing new.
Like I said I've heard all this spectrum crap from LED users and when I went to see their gardens every one of them I have ever seen. When you live in area where on every block there are at least 7 houses that grow (this is not a exaggerated number) they all sing the same crap. The guys with the big led lights, the small ones, panels, UFOs, those trippy huge LEDs and every one of them is a joke. Simple as this when I see some LED gardens including yours that can outperform what I already have I'll be more then happy to jump on the bandwagon.
Show me some gardens that use LEDs and outperform what I can do with HID and I don't mean roses.
Once again there is a reason every major bulb company not just one are not selling them yet when there are millions to me made.
and for every professional nursery that is growing with LED lights there are 20 using HID.
so show me 1.5 pounds grown in a 4x4 space with LEDs. Show me 1 pound plants grown under LEDs cause I already have done better then that under HID.
In fact forget the pound a plant thing just show me one of these
 I wanna see this  with dense buds from top to bottom.
Why don't Rez, Soma, Sensi Seeds ($25,000,000 US dollars worth of seeds sold annually), and so on. Gonna tell me these guys don't know the workings of the marijuana plant inside and out? Think of the money they could make esp in a country where the power prices are so high. Gonna tell me that not one of these guys are smart enough to use LED if it was that much better? Not a single one.
I really want to jump on the LED bandwagon (not a joke I really do want to) and I do think it will be the way of the future but for now results talk and bullshit numbers and pics of roses and all the fancy looking red and blue lights walk and show me gardens that are outdoing what I can do now.
(By the way Crusty I'm not trying to be a asshole the reason I say show me better then what I can do is it wouldn't be worth crossing over if they didn't do better)
This so reminds me of the big "you have to have added co2 no matter what" fad that happened in the early 90s. They had all these numbers, growth rates, sugar production levels in the plants, and so on and look at it now.
So yeah my numbers are off I'm sure I never said I was going by the bullshit that the makers of the LEDs spew. I'm going by what I've seen with the naked eye and not on roses, lillys, venus fly traps, Mongolian pickled watermelons or whatever I want to see the results with buds. The guy who sings the praises of LEDs at ICMAG is at about half of what I'm doing now.
In fact half of those idiots are now saying that LED lights produce less crystals then HID the others are saying they produce more.
So show me, make me see the light, the LED light. 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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Magash
The Feminizer
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 6,634
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Re: HID lights DON'T use a lot of power! [Re: Magash]
#436890 - 06/24/10 11:00 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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By the way and I don't mean to age myself here but I've been under the light since 1985 and wanna know what the biggest change that has had the best results since then is? When air-cooled reflectors hit the market.
I gave up keeping track of spectrum numbers, statistics like that and most others. I go by the results I see around me and I'm lucky there with so many gardens to see plus I have 8 gardens myself (well not myself Mini-Maggie and the rest of the family as everybody else here already knows grow.
All I know is this if I'm using hortilux bulbs and I see a number of gardens using Sun Masters bulbs and growing my strains and getting beter results then I am I'm gonna try the fucking Sun Masters no matter what fancy numbers and info Hortilux has for me. 
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All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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