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 captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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 Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS **  [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#410747 - 05/02/10 09:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TrueHerbCrystal said:
Alright, will do....
- I looked, could not really find anything on mushrooms and the laws for it.
I'm looking specifically for growing mycelium, which is what was doing. I haven't fruited them yet, but one jar did have one little mushroom on it, but barely anything really.
But I'll keep looking for those laws...
~ TrueHerbCrystaL ~
I don't think it will be treated differently. Your intent is clear and you were also so kind as to explain what mushroom mycelium is to the cop.
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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 DieselB
High Watt Closet
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#410749 - 05/02/10 09:51 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sure is gettin' warm in here.. You think they know nothing of this website, you better believe they are watching you like a fucking hawk and know all about this place, probably half the reason you got busted.
Forget about cause to search, anyone who has really dealt with the law will tell you that those motherfuckers will do whatever the fuck they want, and nobody is gonna do shit about it.
I'm really sorry this happened to you, man..
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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie. 
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captain.koons
Failed Botanist
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 6,170
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: DieselB]
#410753 - 05/02/10 10:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieselB said:
Sure is gettin' warm in here.. You think they know nothing of this website, you better believe they are watching you like a fucking hawk and know all about this place, probably half the reason you got busted.
You're a fucking idiot if you think police would track someone down for a single plant esp considering he was pulled over outside the city he lives in. Maybe if he was greeted at his door or something.
Forget about cause to search, anyone who has really dealt with the law will tell you that those motherfuckers will do whatever the fuck they want, and nobody is gonna do shit about it.
I'm really sorry this happened to you, man..
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TROLLS NEED LOVE TOO!
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Amnesiac
Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 102
Loc: Under the sea
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: captain.koons]
#410936 - 05/03/10 10:08 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm sure this has been posted before, but this seems like a good place for it.
ACLU know your rights
Right way to handle a police stop
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TrueHerbCrystal
Uncertified Oregrowian
Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,352
Loc: Emerald City 
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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 Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Amnesiac]
#410964 - 05/03/10 10:54 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for the heads-up Amnesiac.....I needed those videos yesterday. Those types of videos should be stickied for all Growery users to watch. They are important for teaching people like me who are clueless about their rights.
I actually saw a thread in another thread called Ever had cops search your car for no reason?, which is exactly what happened to me, that a guy named Fungi_X posted a video on "Flex your Rights" Best info video I've ever watched. Why didn't I watch it sooner?! Damn it.
Oh well, thats the past. Gotta look forward to the next thing to do.
Thanks again Amnesiac. 
~ TrueH. ~
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Dephect
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 740
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Triptonic]
#410985 - 05/03/10 11:41 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Triptonic said:
Bumper stickers on the back of your car is not a good enough reason to search. Even if the sticker says "I smoke pot". If they had the right to search your car they would have just done it and not told you they were going to. Did your car smell like weed?
Just for future reference, never let them search your car. If you say "no" that doesnt give them the reasonable suspicion to let them search it.
Also, always step out of your car and lock the doors. If they ask you why you locked the doors just tell them its a habit.
If you follow all those rules you will most likely get away, and if you dont you will probably be able to get the case dropped.
Court is fuckin scary as shit as well......but just be polite and have a good lawyer standing by you.
Bumper stickers are reasonable suspicion. If you have a pot leaf on your car. You are asking to get pulled over and searched. The fact of the matter is drugs are illegal. If you put anything anywhere that has a big label "I take drugs!" then your going to get searched. I know friends who have even had Grateful Dead stickers on their car and got pulled over because of it. Reasonable suspicion is the cops decision man, no matter what the law says.
Also if you say no to them, they can detain you and either call it in to legally search your car or bring out a K-9 which they often will.
DONT STEP OUT OF YOUR CAR!@! Honestly that is a good way to get fucking shot. The officer doesn't know what your doing or your intentions. Your best bet is to stay compliant in your vehicle.
DONT BRING FRESH SHIT!@! EVER!@! They will reasonably think you got it from a grower or worse you are the grower and are backed by the government at that point. Even if you must or have to, try and find a way to stash it where they wont find it. I have had cops search my first car. It was a small truck, I had a loaded pipe in my hand when I got pulled over, I threw it under the seat, I got searched, and they never found it. I just got a failure to yield ticket, that I never even paid.
 
If you have shit in your car, make sure everything is legal! Trust me I take shit to Nevada every year for a certain festival and its felony shit over there. You need to make sure your car is legal completely. They will find little reasons to pull you over if they think your out of place. I know I have a head light out right now man, so I choose not to have anything in the car with me ever because that gives them a reason to pull me over in the first place. Other then that I speed all the time. The car is a bad location to have anything. If you have a cop at your window with some fresh herb in the back there is no where you can go at that point.
Get a Lawyer. Find a NORML. RESEARCH. Honestly if your grow was not that big you probably won't get into that much shit, despite contrary belief the court system is very easy on people who are compliant. It depends on your area though. Make sure you have your story straight, there could have been a wrong doing on the police side. If anything you will be given a fine, probation, community service, mandatory drug tests, and drug reform class, and also might give you a hair follicle test at the end of your sentence. That's the minimum yo. The max is a few years in prison and a felony charge on your record, which I am hoping due to your low plant count is not the case. That will fuck up your job hunt forever.
If anything let it teach you a lesson in security. Some have had to find out the hard way, some have always had it easy. It comes with the territory man.
Good Luck Bro
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DANK
VERB CONJUGATeR+HERB INHALATOR
Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 292
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Dephect]
#411024 - 05/03/10 01:20 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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REASONABLE SUSPICION is NOTT NOTT NOTT PROBABLE CAUSE.....
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DieselB
High Watt Closet
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: captain.koons]
#411036 - 05/03/10 02:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
captain.koons said:
Quote:
DieselB said:
Sure is gettin' warm in here.. You think they know nothing of this website, you better believe they are watching you like a fucking hawk and know all about this place, probably half the reason you got busted.
You're a fucking idiot if you think police would track someone down for a single plant esp considering he was pulled over outside the city he lives in. Maybe if he was greeted at his door or something.
Forget about cause to search, anyone who has really dealt with the law will tell you that those motherfuckers will do whatever the fuck they want, and nobody is gonna do shit about it.
I'm really sorry this happened to you, man..
Have you really nothing better to do than to call me a fucking idiot for no good reason? Get a life, loser.
Did I say they tracked him down because of a single plant? No, I did not. But that doesn't mean he wasn't already on some sort of watched list.. After you get busted for growing they are gonna watch everything you do.
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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie.
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Dephect]
#411047 - 05/03/10 03:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dephect said:
Quote:
Triptonic said:
Bumper stickers on the back of your car is not a good enough reason to search. Even if the sticker says "I smoke pot". If they had the right to search your car they would have just done it and not told you they were going to. Did your car smell like weed?
Just for future reference, never let them search your car. If you say "no" that doesnt give them the reasonable suspicion to let them search it.
Also, always step out of your car and lock the doors. If they ask you why you locked the doors just tell them its a habit.
If you follow all those rules you will most likely get away, and if you dont you will probably be able to get the case dropped.
Court is fuckin scary as shit as well......but just be polite and have a good lawyer standing by you.
Bumper stickers are reasonable suspicion. If you have a pot leaf on your car. You are asking to get pulled over and searched. The fact of the matter is drugs are illegal. If you put anything anywhere that has a big label "I take drugs!" then your going to get searched. I know friends who have even had Grateful Dead stickers on their car and got pulled over because of it. Reasonable suspicion is the cops decision man, no matter what the law says.
Also if you say no to them, they can detain you and either call it in to legally search your car or bring out a K-9 which they often will.
DONT STEP OUT OF YOUR CAR!@! Honestly that is a good way to get fucking shot. The officer doesn't know what your doing or your intentions. Your best bet is to stay compliant in your vehicle.
DONT BRING FRESH SHIT!@! EVER!@! They will reasonably think you got it from a grower or worse you are the grower and are backed by the government at that point. Even if you must or have to, try and find a way to stash it where they wont find it. I have had cops search my first car. It was a small truck, I had a loaded pipe in my hand when I got pulled over, I threw it under the seat, I got searched, and they never found it. I just got a failure to yield ticket, that I never even paid.
If you have shit in your car, make sure everything is legal! Trust me I take shit to Nevada every year for a certain festival and its felony shit over there. You need to make sure your car is legal completely. They will find little reasons to pull you over if they think your out of place. I know I have a head light out right now man, so I choose not to have anything in the car with me ever because that gives them a reason to pull me over in the first place. Other then that I speed all the time. The car is a bad location to have anything. If you have a cop at your window with some fresh herb in the back there is no where you can go at that point.
Get a Lawyer. Find a NORML. RESEARCH. Honestly if your grow was not that big you probably won't get into that much shit, despite contrary belief the court system is very easy on people who are compliant. It depends on your area though. Make sure you have your story straight, there could have been a wrong doing on the police side. If anything you will be given a fine, probation, community service, mandatory drug tests, and drug reform class, and also might give you a hair follicle test at the end of your sentence. That's the minimum yo. The max is a few years in prison and a felony charge on your record, which I am hoping due to your low plant count is not the case. That will fuck up your job hunt forever.
If anything let it teach you a lesson in security. Some have had to find out the hard way, some have always had it easy. It comes with the territory man.
Good Luck Bro
No bumper stickers will not give them valid reasons to search your car.
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Dephect
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 740
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Triptonic]
#411090 - 05/03/10 04:50 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Tell that to a cop when he pulls you over for it and searches you. You can't beat the system son Its better to just play it safe in all aspects of not clearly labeling yourself as a drug user in any way. If you get pulled over for any reason and you have a leaf sticker or a drug quote, chances are your probably going to get searched because they have reasonable suspicion something is in the vehicle, and if you have anything on you.. Your chances of being fucked increase greatly.. Simple as that..
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DungenessDank
Lord of the Flies
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 9,372
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Dephect]
#411091 - 05/03/10 04:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Do you think you have no rights? I don't think the first amendment would like the fact that you say a cop can violate the fourth amendment over a bumper-sticker.
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Dephect]
#411093 - 05/03/10 05:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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If he searches your car because of a bumper sticker it will get thrown out in court.
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DieselB
High Watt Closet
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Triptonic]
#411096 - 05/03/10 05:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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They are just gonna make up whatever bullshit excuse they can. Like they smelled the "distinct aroma of marijuana".. After the "routine stop".
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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie.
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: DieselB]
#411107 - 05/03/10 05:25 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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That is true, but I'm wondering if you can say "how the hell could you smell that" if it is locked up through a bunch of things. And if you could prove to the court that there is no possible way he could have smelled marijuana. If you could get it thrown out in court. and if you didnt have anything lit.
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hopanshrubman
The Rabble Rouser
Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 347
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Triptonic]
#411314 - 05/03/10 09:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Was the rave you were going to called Juicy?
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Dephect
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 740
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Triptonic]
#411335 - 05/03/10 10:01 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Triptonic said:
That is true, but I'm wondering if you can say "how the hell could you smell that" if it is locked up through a bunch of things. And if you could prove to the court that there is no possible way he could have smelled marijuana. If you could get it thrown out in court. and if you didnt have anything lit.
How are you going to prove in court that he didn't smell it. Its his word against yours, and he is a officer of the law.
http://www.realpolice.net/forums/archive/t-25992.html
These are real police posting shit about people getting pulled over. These guys are a bunch of dicks. All they need is reasonable suspicion and that can be a very wide range of things.
And your right. They won't pull you over for a pot leaf sticker on the back of your car but they will follow you, and get you for something.. Listen to these dicks..
"I've always called it probably cause... perhaps us West Coast guys talk differently
In layman’s terms;
Mere Suspicion>Reasonable Suspicion>Probable Cause
You see a 1967 Camero, with two long haired dudes in it driving down the street. You also see a marijuana leaf sticker on the back window. All equipment is in order, no other traffic violations observed, but you are suspicious that they may actually possess marijuana. Can you legally detain them by stopping their transit with your emergency lights?
Nope. You are “merely suspicious” of the occupants. You may, however, keep an eye on them.
Okay, you had mere suspicion and were following the Camero when you see the driver take a puff off of a hand rolled cigarette then hand it to the passenger who also takes a puff. Now, they could simply be sharing their last tobacco cigarette. But, based on your training and experience as a police officer, you know this is the technique commonly utilized to smoke a marijuana “joint.”
You now have reasonable suspicion, which can be described as “any information/observation that would lead a reasonable and prudent person (law officer) to suspect that; 1. A crime is about to occur. 2. A crime is in progress. 3. A crime has just occurred.
You can lawfully detain, for a short period of “continuous” investigation to satisfy your reasonable suspicion on whether or not one of the three aforementioned actions applies.
Using reasonable suspicion, you engage your emergency lights and cause the vehicle to pull over. As the vehicle is stopping, you see the two subjects begin making sudden movements as though they are hiding or retrieving something under their seats. The vehicle stops and you walk up to the car and smell the odor you recognize and associate with that of burning marijuana.
Taking the totality of circumstances into account, you now have probable cause (PC), defined by the Supreme Court as "accumulated wisdom of precedent and experience." PC, in this circumstance can also be defined as "that which would lead a person of reasonable caution to believe that something connected with a crime is on the premises of a person or on persons themselves."
So, you get them both out and search the car. You find a baggie, which your training and experience tells you, contains marijuana.
Another definition of PC would apply; "Probable cause is the sum total of layers of information and synthesis of what police have heard, know, or observe as trained officers."
You now have probable cause to place the subjects under arrest for possession of marijuana.
There is probably someone out there that can articulate a simpler definition and I would welcome other descriptions."
Either way bro. The lesson is, don't have drug related stickers on your vehicle. It gives them suspicion to believe that you engage in illegal activities, and if you have a drug related sticker you probably do.
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TrueHerbCrystal
Uncertified Oregrowian
Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,352
Loc: Emerald City
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Dephect]
#411427 - 05/04/10 01:54 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hopanshrubman said:
Was the rave you were going to called Juicy?
It was not Juicy. I heard of that one thou, it was in Portland. But no, it wasn't that one. I would rather not say which one it was, but it was not Juicy.
Quote:
Dephect said:
Quote:
Triptonic said:
That is true, but I'm wondering if you can say "how the hell could you smell that" if it is locked up through a bunch of things. And if you could prove to the court that there is no possible way he could have smelled marijuana. If you could get it thrown out in court. and if you didnt have anything lit.
How are you going to prove in court that he didn't smell it. Its his word against yours, and he is a officer of the law.
http://www.realpolice.net/forums/archive/t-25992.html
These are real police posting shit about people getting pulled over. These guys are a bunch of dicks. All they need is reasonable suspicion and that can be a very wide range of things.
And your right. They won't pull you over for a pot leaf sticker on the back of your car but they will follow you, and get you for something.. Listen to these dicks..
"I've always called it probably cause... perhaps us West Coast guys talk differently
....
Either way bro. The lesson is, don't have drug related stickers on your vehicle. It gives them suspicion to believe that you engage in illegal activities, and if you have a drug related sticker you probably do.
Thanks for that detailed break-down Dephect. Its good to see people who really know their stuff about this, and know the laws quite well.
As for the smell of marijuana suspicion, I would like to say that it was unlikely that they smelled any. I know it sounds biased, but let me explain how it was packed. First, there were only about 3 small budz, fresh, about the amount you can put in the center of a cupped hand. Say, the amount that covers a 3" diameter circle, to estimate. In other words, no much.
Secondly, I wrapped them in alum. foil in the shape of an un-opened poppy pod, for lack of a good metaphor. It was one piece that was flat on the bottom, then came to a crinkled, pinched-off top. Then, this little alum foil "flower thing" was stuffed into a small threaded-cap plastic container, about the size of 4" tall and 4" wide. Not very big. The alum. foil thing fit very tight in there. It was then sealed tight with the cap, then stuffed pretty deep in a black grocery bag. It was not in plain sight, but if a couple shirts and stuff were move, you would find a container with a metal aluminum object inside. You would have actually had to open it to see what was inside.
Anyway, my point is that its unlikely that there was a smell coming from there. In fact, not one officer mentioned "Do you have marijuana in your car?" Or "Do I smell marijuana in here?", which makes me so mad, because I think they did not know. I could I be so stupid and fall under the pressure. I'm so weak, it hurts me.
Anyway, I can say with good reason that there was no weed smell in the car. I did NOT even smoke at all that day, or anytime during the road trip. I was 100% sober, with no burnt weed done.
What do you think? Is that good enough evidence to say I was wrongfully searched?
I hope its worth something....
~ TrueH.
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#411431 - 05/04/10 02:02 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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You let them search you so I dont think you will get them to say it was a wrongful search.
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TrueHerbCrystal
Uncertified Oregrowian
Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,352
Loc: Emerald City
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: Triptonic]
#411443 - 05/04/10 02:54 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, you are right. Again, my fault. This whole thing could have been avoided! NOOooo!! But its the past now, gotta look forward....
An Update on what happened today....I'll just post it here. Posting in the other thread might be too redundant I guess...
May 4, 2010:
Called the tow place this morning. They told me I had to go to the police department to get some release forms signed. So, I took a cab to the dept. and waited for awhile for the cop to come out. Very nerve racking....thought they were deciding if it was evidence or not in the case. Not a pleasant thing to wait on at all. The cop said "Come back in about an hour". Also, the women at the desk told me "The towing company only takes cash". I asked "How much?" She said "about $200". So expensive. So, with the help of my Dad, I went to find a ATM and got the cash. Then, I went to a book store to kill time. I tried to find a local law book but there was none. Just old books on random stuff other than laws.
But, in the back room, I found the medical book, and looked at "addiction". Turns out I did not have an "Addiction" according to the Med. book, but I rather had a "habituation" for these substances, which was described something like:
" Having the psychology need to take substances in order to deal with stress, to provide pleasure, etc. without the physiological need to increase dosage due to tolerances."
That's exactly what I have. it would be better for my case if I was addicted, but this is still good to know.
Anyway, I got back to the police dept. on time. The guy called the front desk, and talked to the women in front. Then the lady called the tow co. and got it cleared.
I asked about my cell-phone and camera, and she said it was at the district attr. office, so I'm guessing its evidence now, so I still have to use my pre-paided phone, which works really good $25. So that's bad news: no getting back camera and phone. At least there's not much evidence against me on them. Even the text-messages are clean. Never offered to sell/buy drugs or nothing like that. Pretty happy about that. 
Back to the car: took a cab to the towing, paided the tow guy in full, and got my car back! Felt really good about that. They didn't think I was smuggling or moving weight, as they say....so that's good news.
>>> Also, I looked at lawyers in Oregon at NORML. There's quite a bit, but they are all in Portland, which is really far from where I live. I'm guessing having them come to my hometown court is way too expensive, so I might have to find some local lawyers instead. The drawback and benefit of a small town: less people. And less attorneys.
However, I have been browsing the yellow pages book, and found a couple *local* lawyers with specialties in criminal offenses, and had big ads in the book, with statements like "- Drugs charges" and "free consultation". Sounds promising that they are local and deal with cases like this. If I was loaded, I would get the Portland lawyers.....
Might have to take that route.
---> Lastly, I tried to fix the light on my license plate that started all this. Could not fix it. Tested the wires to the bulb, and they have no power in them. Gotta get it fixed thou, professional maybe....can't get another ticket like that. Must fix light soon.
Well, gotta get to sleep.
Gotta Stay Focused,
~ TrueH. ~
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Triptonic
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 15,581
Loc:
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Re: All CFL Semi-Auto Closet Project (FirstGrow)('Flower' Seed) ** SEIZED & DESTORYED BY COPS ** [Re: TrueHerbCrystal]
#411446 - 05/04/10 03:44 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good keeping your mind off things man, dont stress to much over it. Maybe try looking for a lawyer that only gets paid if you get off? If they offer such a thing.....
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