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 imatree
Stranger
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 5
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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 Some noob questions. 
#395411 - 04/03/10 06:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hello, I've never attempted to grow before but I've been looking into it a lot recently and I have a few questions before I start ordering stuff.
My plan was:
3'x6'x7'
Mylar covered walls
400 Watt HPS
4 x Lowlife Auto White Russian
2 x Greenhouse Super Lemon Haze
Soil - What kind do you recommend? What nutrients?
3 gallon pots
So I'm wondering if this is enough light or will I need a 600watt for 6 plant? Also, What can I expect to yield? Will the light cycle of the Super Lemon Haze hurt the auto's? Will I be able to fit 6 plants in that much space?
Thanks for the help.
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Union420
Horticulturist
Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 94
Loc: New World
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: imatree]
#395437 - 04/03/10 06:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey, I too am working with SLH among others right now. I use coco coir with perlite 5050 and General hydroponics Floranova series nutes.
I would suggest coir/perlite if you look around youll see its quite the newish way to go, Ive grown in everything from outdoors in soil indoors soil, ebb&flow, buckets, ect ect.. and I like coir the best of all.
As for nutes Id suggest the same, Ive used GH floranova series for a long time and its IMO the best, again if you look around youll find many that can co-sign me on that one, BTW I also use 3 gal pots for flowering not that that matters but its can kinda be a comparison for ya.
Yeild is really hard to estimate since there are many things that determine it, you can have a plant with genetics that can produce say 6 oz a plant but if not grown in optimum conditions it may only yeild 3 so you can understand why its tricky. The size of the plant also plays a large role. Id say if you have everything dialed in you should get between 2-3 oz from a 2-3ft plant. Again theres no way to be exact really. Your light should be fine also, if you dont have one Id suggest getting a ph meter as well. good luck
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Everything is fictional, I dont even exist.
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imatree
Stranger
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 5
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: Union420]
#395619 - 04/03/10 11:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I decided against the lowlife automatic white russian after reading more about automatic plants. I'm thinking SLH and Mandala Hashberry.
Thanks for the advice.
I really need to know about the lighting/room size. I've read the rule to be 50 watts/sq ft. 3x6 would be 18 sq ft so I would need 900 watts. That seems excessive for 6 plants. But I don't know if that's even enough room for all of the plants. I'm really confused. 
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 Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal 
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: imatree]
#395621 - 04/03/10 11:11 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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SLH and hashberry are both great but you're going to have a hard time getting an even canopy running a haze along side an indica. Just something to keep in mind 
Also, 3x6 is a pretty sizeable closet. If you really wanted to go all out I would do 2 x 600W in that space, but if not you'll be fine with just a single 600. 400W is drastically underpowered for that area in my opinion.
Also, the mylar is just a waste of money. Paint your walls a nice flat white and you'll be just as good off as with the mylar, but with 2% as much effort 
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imatree
Stranger
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 5
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Good to know on the mylar thing. I already have glossy white walls.
So what I'm trying to do is get the cheapest setup possible that I can grow 6 plants in. I don't want a major sacrifice in quality of the bud and I'd like a decent harvest. Is there any room size that would work with a 400 watt? Maybe 4x2.5. Would that fit the 6 plants? If so that would be 40 watts/sqft. Would it be helpful to add some cfl's under the plants?
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: imatree]
#395875 - 04/04/10 01:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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well that room size would be fine with the 400W but you just can't pack plants in there from wall to wall. I'd say leave the space the same size in case you feel like expanding in the future. if you're dead set on the 400 then just put plants under a 2x2 or 3x3 space in that existing closet. I would definitely push you to go for 600W though. Doesn't cost that much more but will definitely pay for itself in increased yield
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imatree
Stranger
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 5
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Alright. Well 600 it is. What size should the room be? Should I go with my original 3x6 plan?
I don't really plan on ever having more than 6 flowering plants but I would like to have a room for veg and flowering so I can constantly have plants flowering. Could I get away with less lighting in the Veg room? How much would I need? Would cfl's be sufficient?
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Harry_Ba11sach
cannoisseur
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 11,753
Loc: Nepal
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: imatree]
#395912 - 04/04/10 02:24 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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well are you planning on keeping mothers or just growing from seed? If it were me I'd split that space up like such-
2x3 for veg
4x3 for flowering
But that's only useful if you're going from seed. If you want to keep mothers and do your cloning in your veg room then I would make 2 rooms of 3x3. My ultimate preference would be the 2x3 and 3x4 for veg/flower and then an entirely separate 2x2 space or so for moms and clones with CFL's.
You could definitely get away with less lighting in the veg room, but I'd go with a 400W MH rather than cfls. However, if you're on a tight budget here cfls will certainly work, just a bit slower.
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Union420
Horticulturist
Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 94
Loc: New World
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: imatree]
#397876 - 04/07/10 07:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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When I first started I used a 30gal rubbermaid tub left over from mushies , the space was about 1 by 2 and some change, I used 2 100W CFL Floods (that I still use just more of them) and not the twisy ones either im talking the long mogul socket type that has 100 used watts.
I used this to illuminate the tub that housed 1 mother bonsai style no higher than a foot and a few inches, alongside a clone tray that clones were rooted in. There was enough room to veg 1 or 2 plants without the cloning tray for about 3 weeks thats tops tho 1 to 2 was better.
For flowering I used a 400 hps in a closet about 4.5ft by 19in, and a 10 plant ebb&flow (homemade from rubbermaid tubs and trays) With this no continuous harvest was feasible so I switched to 3 gal pots of coir/perlite, at the time I had a 8 week plant, I took clones every 2 weeks and harvested every two, this kept 3 or 4 plants flowering at all times and every 2 weeks Id harvest a ounce or 2.
I dont see a real need for MH nor do I suggest it for average home grows, there are many reasons for this, lower electricity use, less heat, less UV rays that contribute to males ect.. especially when starting from seed.
For larger grows however where its uneconomical to use tons of CFL floods a MH is preferred but still comes with downsides.
Maybe that can help give you some ideas
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Everything is fictional, I dont even exist.
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DieselB
High Watt Closet
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: Union420]
#397894 - 04/07/10 07:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude, you need to stop telling people that MH (UV light) contributes to producing male's, it's hearsay , and its simply not true. It will remain untrue until you(or whoever) prove(s) otherwise.
I also don't see how you think they use more electricity, watts are watts, the bulb type isn't gonna change that.
Yes, they do produce more heat per lumen, though you aren't gonna see a big rise in temp of your grow room if you use a MH bulb compared to the HPS.
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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie.
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Union420
Horticulturist
Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 94
Loc: New World
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: DieselB]
#397929 - 04/07/10 07:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieselB said:
Dude, you need to stop telling people that MH (UV light) contributes to producing male's, it's hearsay , and its simply not true. It will remain untrue until you(or whoever) prove(s) otherwise.
I also don't see how you think they use more electricity, watts are watts, the bulb type isn't gonna change that.
Yes, they do produce more heat per lumen, though you aren't gonna see a big rise in temp of your grow room if you use a MH bulb compared to the HPS.
LOL, whos talking about compairing MH to HPS for heat, Im saying CFL's put out less heat than a MH, did you read it? CFL's use less electricity that is unless you live in some strange land that I dont kno of where 100W is equal to 400 lol.
I been growing for years, I STARTED with a MH years and years ago, I switched after years of testing theory's and "hearsay"
Its clearly stated by more than one grower with more experience than you or I combined that MH produces UV rays, and by definition UV rays can be stressful to a plant, stress causes male tendencies for plants grown from seed along with many other conditions, this is in no way saying a MH will cause males. Environmental conditions play a large role in determining sex of a plant grown from seed, again this is CLEARLY acknowledged by experienced growers and breeders alike including myself who isint posting things Ive read, there things I have witnessed with my own two eyes. YES I originally read it in Jorge Cervantes Marijuana Horticulture, did I take it as fact..no..I tested the theory and findings of the original source of the info the breeders at Dutch Passion.
I dont take everything I read as fact, so I can say we have that in common, however, when I see results for myself by personally testing and re-testing, the information becomes valid, I then have 2 options, keep it to myself and be a selfish prick, or share what I think is very useful information with a community that im finding more and more fights itself rather than embracing new or extremely useful information , I mean the last I checked we prize females or did something happen overnight I wasnt aware of? either way im no fruitcake so if the males are the way to go now guess im done lol.
Im not some newb or kid trying to sound cool or start arguments, ive been doing this for years and I kno what im doing, If something dint work or was misinformation I wouldnt say it and I damn sure wouldnt use it myself. If someone dosent want to use my advice its no sweat off my coin pouch, what do I care what someone else is doing lol I use what I kno because I kno it works plain and simple. As far as proving something, I ask to whom lol, I prove it to myself and thats all that matters, im not gonna go out of my way to hand feed information to the point of a step by picture guide to someone who believes otherwise my concern is MY grow, you can lead a horse to water but..well you kno
Oh and BTW, you said bulb type dosent change watts, what your talking about I have no idea, I was saying that the lights I use with the mogle socket use 100 watts, ulike the twistys that people frequently misunderstand do not produce what they say on the package, for instance when buying a CFL, most twisty bulbs come in a package with watts on the outside, MOST say watts they are equivalent too, not the actual watts used, like 100 watts, but in small print it says only uses 20w, I think you confused something. If a light is a 400W light that uses 400w then its 400, if it says 400 and only uses 100 then it means the light output is comparable or equal to a 400w incandescent but only uses 100, this is a known benefit of using CFLs in the home, you can replace a 60w incandescent with a 13w cfl and the light output will be the same but at a lower wattage use. People see "puts out 400 watts" and think a light is a 400w when its not thats what im saying, there is a difference between the light I use and twistys and its not just the fact it uses a different socket altogether. You cant screw a mogul socket bulb into a household socket no more than you can fit a HPS bulb in one.
Edited by Union420 (04/07/10 08:14 PM)
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DieselB
High Watt Closet
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: Union420]
#397990 - 04/07/10 08:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, you're right, you didn't say anything about HPS, my bad.. Still though, the equal amount of watts no matter if cfl/mh/hps/led are going to create an equal power bill, and I was trying to say that the MH per heat signature is going to create WAY more lumens than a cfl.
There is a lot of growers out there with way more experience than I, they may say that uv causes males. I still call bullshit, just because you have a lot of experience doesn't mean you're right on everything. To the contrary, growers who have been growing forever tend to get stuck in their ways and aren't very open to new information, because they know what works for them. Just seems to me if this was fact the knowledge would be more widely available, and people wouldn't be using MH lights..
"I dont see a real need for MH nor do I suggest it for average home grows, there are many reasons for this, lower electricity use, less heat, less UV rays that contribute to males ect.. especially when starting from seed."
Thats what I was referring to, they don't use less electricity when compared watt for watt, comparing that to a cfl of less watts that creates way less lumens is not a fair comparison to base that statement on.
I wasn't trying to discredit you, or call you out or anything, I'm just trying to make sure beginners don't get the wrong impression. Short statements can very easily be misconstrude by people that are just starting to learn about this stuff.
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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie.
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Union420
Horticulturist
Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 94
Loc: New World
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: DieselB]
#398033 - 04/07/10 09:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieselB said:
Yes, you're right, you didn't say anything about HPS, my bad.. Still though, the equal amount of watts no matter if cfl/mh/hps/led are going to create an equal power bill, and I was trying to say that the MH per heat signature is going to create WAY more lumens than a cfl.
There is a lot of growers out there with way more experience than I, they may say that uv causes males. I still call bullshit, just because you have a lot of experience doesn't mean you're right on everything. To the contrary, growers who have been growing forever tend to get stuck in their ways and aren't very open to new information, because they know what works for them. Just seems to me if this was fact the knowledge would be more widely available, and people wouldn't be using MH lights..
"I dont see a real need for MH nor do I suggest it for average home grows, there are many reasons for this, lower electricity use, less heat, less UV rays that contribute to males ect.. especially when starting from seed."
Thats what I was referring to, they don't use less electricity when compared watt for watt, comparing that to a cfl of less watts that creates way less lumens is not a fair comparison to base that statement on.
I wasn't trying to discredit you, or call you out or anything, I'm just trying to make sure beginners don't get the wrong impression. Short statements can very easily be misconstrude by people that are just starting to learn about this stuff.
Ok, I see what you are referring to, your absolutely correct it seems it was just misunderstood when you first read it, thats understandable and I should have made it clear, yes a watt is a watt no matter what light is using it and yes cfls are not comparable to light output of HPS or MH. What i was saying was using a 100w CFL would cause less heat than a HPS or MH and with less or no UV rays and use less watts than a 400 so electricity would be lower, if it was a 400w CFL it would be the same but with less lumen output.
You sound like me when you say people get stuck in there ways, I contiuously say this because its true, but with new information being found out yearly it is vital that people be more open to new things so that the scene can evolve and get better. My findings about growing more females from seed is just that, new info. It blows my mind that there is not a flood of information about it which is why I try to get it well known to the community so it may be used and become usefull, the lack of information is partly due to disbelievers discrediting it and the lack of actually trying it due to people who are stuck in there ways who just wont. Like I said, I never believe what I read or hear untill I try for myself and I would never spread something I knew dint work, I find it to be a breakthrough at the least considering the goal and problem are one in the same which is getting more females.
Unfortunately newbies need to be spoon fed for quite some (not referring to you) time and tend to get tons of info that they dont know what to do with so I can understand questioning new information that dosent have a big following to date, but thats the point, to get this known and get people doing it to see for themselves.
Alright were cool just had to clear it up my bad shoulda been more detailed.
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Everything is fictional, I dont even exist.
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Hawksresurrection
Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 13,464
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: Union420]
#398128 - 04/07/10 11:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm going to pipe in on this whole MH produces more males. Now I'm not going to claim to have done my own studies on this, but I have read a fair amount on it and all official sources say the opposite of what your claiming.
First off, both MH and HPS put off UV light. So that theory is just out the window all together.
According to Cervantes light with a higher end spectrum of light, i.e. bluer light, increases the number of females that you get when growing from seed. As opposed to the low end of the light spectrum which is has more red and orange tones.
So if Jorge is correct. MH, not HPS produce more females than males.
But then you also have to ask the question of how much does genetics and a multitude of other environmental factors come into play.
I really feel that without an extremely involved and detail oriented study on this. We're all just going to be pissing in the wind.
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Dude she isn't as young as she use to be.
-niteowl
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DieselB
High Watt Closet
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie.
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13eetleJuice
The ghost with the most
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 368
Loc: 6' under fertalizing bud
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: DieselB]
#398147 - 04/08/10 12:05 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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If Buddy Guy isn't Union420's puppet, I'll kiss your ass! 
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imatree
Stranger
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 5
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Some noob questions. [Re: 13eetleJuice]
#417444 - 05/13/10 08:41 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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So after doing more thinking and research I have decided on a
1000 watt light in a 4x5 or 3x6 (around 20 sq feet) room.
3xMandala Hashberry
3xMandala Ganesh
3 Gallon Pots with FoxFarm Ocean Forest
Not sure on nutes still but I can experiment with that
So, my questions are
How tall should I let them get before flowering? I've heard to expect them to grow 3-4 times their size while flowering. I don't think I want them much more than 4 ft so I was thinking around 1 foot.
What is the cheapest lighting option for the veg growth?
When it comes to ventilation I have no idea what I need. 1000 watts seems like a lot for such a small room so I would think it would have to be pretty good. Can anyone recommend a ventilation setup?
And sorry to bump such an old thread with really similar questions. I just thought it would be better than starting a new thread,
Edited by imatree (05/13/10 09:24 PM)
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