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 Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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 Re: BAM HEALTHCARE  [Re: Doitagain]
#388728 - 03/23/10 12:53 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doitagain said:
Quote:
Tangerines said:
Just because every other western nation has done it does not mean it is progress...
no the fact that every other western nation has done it does not mean it is progress, the fact that every other western nation is able to provide healthcare for all it's citizens means its progress, and now we will too means its progress.
Yes it will provide healthcare for many people but at what expense? Where is all the money going to come from?
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Tangerines]
#388729 - 03/23/10 12:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:
Quote:
Doitagain said:
Quote:
Tangerines said:
Just because every other western nation has done it does not mean it is progress...
no the fact that every other western nation has done it does not mean it is progress, the fact that every other western nation is able to provide healthcare for all it's citizens means its progress, and now we will too means its progress.
Yes it will provide healthcare for many people but at what expense? Where is all the money going to come from?
you have to realize the actual cost of health-care is a lot lower than the practical cost of health-care as the system is now.
You have to pay a premium so pharmaceutical and biomedical companies make obscene profits, also you will be paying for other people's health care but you are not likely to even notice the tax burden and they will also be paying for yours so it works out.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Doitagain]
#388730 - 03/23/10 01:01 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't want anyone to pay for my health care though. I'll still go the private route.
Health care cost so much because doctors have to pay extreme insurance payments. We need Tort Reform...ie get rid of the bullshit lawsuits. That would lower health care costs. What we are doing now is not going to work. I know people in the UK that have to wait in obscene lines at the doctor because they are overburdened.
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 11 months, 11 days
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Tangerines]
#388731 - 03/23/10 01:03 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:
The only reason I seem wealthy is because my people worked their asses off to get to where we are. If people would actually put forth some effort and work to the bone they could afford the nice things in life.
You have a very distorted and simple way of looking at things. Try and understand, some people cannot even work. I've said this several times before. Some people are incapable of working because of injury, sickness, condition, etc.
Go tell the laid off factory worker, "you know, if you actually would have put some effort into your work, you could afford health care."
Go tell the financially independent college student "you know, if you actually worked harder you could afford health care."
Go tell the quadriplegic veteran that if he "put some more back into it, he could afford some new prosthetic arms!"
Go tell the child born in Mogadishu "ya know, if you work hard you can afford nice things! Like me!"
I really don't know what to say to you anymore. It seems that your beliefs are quite radical.
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Tangerines said:Also, education is not needed to sustain life.
Try getting a job when you can't read or write. To sustain ones own life in the Western world, one needs an education to work. This is fact.
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Tangerines said:People do not have the right to take my money for their own use. That is what it comes down to for me. I have to foot the bill for people that I do not even know. I'd rather save the money and use it for when my family needs it. But no I can't do that anymore.
If you went to public school, you mooched off someone else too. Sorry buddy, but you've benefited from the same kind of system. Stop pretending you've worked for everything you have and you've earned everything you've gotten.
Quote:
Tangerines said:
I don't want anyone to pay for my health care though. I'll still go the private route.
If you can afford that then you are evidently a very privileged person and shouldn't even be debating this.
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: TomCollins]
#388736 - 03/23/10 01:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Go tell the laid off factory worker, "you know, if you actually would have put some effort into your work, you could afford health care."
Hey you are probably getting unemployment payments. That should hold you off until you find another job.
Quote:
Go tell the financially independent college student "you know, if you actually worked harder you could afford health care."
Hey college friend. Good thing that in order to even attend this college we must have health insurance. The school even has a cost friendly plan for students who have no other options.
Quote:
Go tell the quadriplegic veteran that if he "put some more back into it, he could afford some new prosthetic arms!"
Hey thanks for your service. Good thing our country takes care of vets and give them money for the rest of their lives if need be. The government will buy you your plastic arm no doubt about that.
Quote:
Go tell the child born in Mogadishu "ya know, if you work hard you can afford nice things! Like me!"
Hey child. Don't work because I do not condone child labor like Spency does.
Also, I was home schooled and now go to a major public university. I took loans out in order to pay for it. When I graduate I will get a job and pay the loans off. Sorry I have no sympathy. Sure the new health care will help out some people that actually need it, but like Welfare the majority of people will abuse the shit out of it. Lazy people come to mind.
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: TomCollins]
#388738 - 03/23/10 01:11 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah the midwest is gonna have a hard time with this one because they still think in lock-step with the republican party line, but the fact is this isa good thing and the beenfits will become apparent to all in a few years.
Also tang liability costs are only part of the reason for high costs of health-care, far more of a problem is the major pharmaceutical and biomedical companies, and the high costs of prescriptin drugs.
Major corporatons should not be making billions in profit off people's suffering, healthcare should not be a for profit venture.
Right now the healthcare companies have far more of an incentive to make a drug that you need to take forever, instead of a treatment that will cure you permanently after a month, one makes them more money.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Doitagain]
#388739 - 03/23/10 01:13 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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If there was no profit involved in medicine then the medicine that people take would never have been developed. You forget that. It takes years and years of testing for a drug to come to the market. You think that is free? you think the thousands of scientists in the R&D work for free?
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DieselB
High Watt Closet
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Doitagain]
#388744 - 03/23/10 01:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doitagain said:
Quote:
DieselB said:
Sorry, but a lot of you guys need to wake up and smell the java.. I don't even know where to begin.. How about Obama PROMISING bipartisan support, and the only bipartisanship is dems and repubs voting against it! Obama PROMISED complete trasparency. He delivered nan.. Instead you got Pelosi up there telling us that (paraphrasing) "We can't find out whats in the bill till we vote it in, its so special, its a surprise!"
I don't like surprises from my government, how about you, do you really feel comfortable with the rate government is growing? They have done nothing but fuck up continually on both sides, now they control 1/6th of the economy!? We're already goin' down the toilet.
Europe is doing so great, huh? Why? because they have better pot laws? Their healthcare sucks, you tell me whats better when it comes to ANYTHING, the free version or the pay version.. Remember, "You get what you pay for"?
Dems are gonna regret this come november, mark my words.
And no, I'm not some sour repub. I am a proud American that can't believe his eyes, one that's starting to be not so proud, one that's fearing for his countries destruction. Everyday we go deeper into debt, not long ago Sec. Clinton was in China begging them to keep buying our debt, they're gonna realize we're not gonna be able to pay it back, they're gonna drop our debt... You think the past little while has been a recession, some say DEPRESSION. You've seen nothing yet.
bro it's absolutely clear that you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, and are just spouting your mouth off and you're clearly influenced by the great american delusion that we must be the best at everything.
It's clear you've probably never left your country, so i will let you in on a secret. The system works, period. The united states does not have better health-care than Israel, Australia, Germany pretty much any 1st world western nation has the system in place and it works better than ours.
In Israel the quality of health-care i received was every bit as good as it was when I was insured here. Health-care doesn't need to cost nearly as much as it does to be good, the main reason it is so costly is because of the massive amounts of profits made by pharmaceutical and biomedical companies, this is an issue that needs addressed.
you may very well find yourself losing your job someday or in a situation that would have left you w/o healthcare. When you get sick and get treatment for it you will thank the dems for getting this through.
You telegraph ignorance by your uncalled for remarks, insults, and contradicting yourself in the same post, which I bolded for you in case you didn't notice. If I'm just spouting off and "don't know what the fuck I'm talking about" why are you getting mad? Show these people some facts that I don't know what I'm talking about.
How about I give you a fact that YOU don't know what you're talking about? I have been out of work for two years because of two hurniated discs in my back.. Most days I can't hardly get out of bed, I have no insurance, can't get medicaid, or any kinda help except the occasional ER visit for some BS pain med, when it's so bad I wanna blow my damn brains out. Guess what!? I'm still not for this health care bill. I don't want a damn hand out! Instead I'm living like shit for the past two years to hustle, scrimp, and scrape by and save a few bucks so I can start my own business and take care of my own problems. Which I may add that I'm only a few months away from starting. The rest of the country doesn't deserve to pay for my problems when they have problems of their own they can't handle. It is most certainly not the governments job to tell them otherwise, either!
We already have states doing this, it's not working for them, they are losing money.. Going bankrupt.. You're right though, we should make sure the whole country feels that pain. Maybe then people will wake up, but guess what? Its gonna be too late.
I really give a damn about any other countries working "system", and it's not because I think America is the best, it's because our current system does not permit us to implement the same measures they have. It's all good though, I'm not mad.. I don't come on the Growery to cry about politics, I just felt compelled to try and help some people to see through the non-sense.
Just for the record, I harbor no ill-will against any of you for your beliefs.. Like I said, just wanted to give people a different perspective, this thing seemed kinda one sided to me, thats all.
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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie. 
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Tangerines]
#388745 - 03/23/10 01:20 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:
If there was no profit involved in medicine then the medicine that people take would never have been developed. You forget that. It takes years and years of testing for a drug to come to the market. You think that is free? you think the thousands of scientists in the R&D work for free?
true but by government regulation of the pricing strucutre of pharmaceuticals it ensures we are paying a fair price that will both fund the r & D of new drugs, and keep the pharmaceutical companies from making these obscene products. Pump all the profits back into health-care system and not into the pockets of the titans of industry.
I'm a capitalist through and through, but when it comes to healthcare the system just works. I've seen it firsthand, whereas you have not.
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Doitagain]
#388747 - 03/23/10 01:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Seeing it means nothing. You can see anything through the internet. I know people who live in the UK, Germany, and Spain who have explained to me how it is. I don't have to be in the country to be able to form an opinion.
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 11 months, 11 days
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Tangerines]
#388748 - 03/23/10 01:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:Also, I was home schooled
 It is clear your homeschooling was poor.
Quote:
Tangerines said:
Go tell the laid off factory worker, "you know, if you actually would have put some effort into your work, you could afford health care."
Hey you are probably getting unemployment payments. That should hold you off until you find another job.
Unemployment runs out and doesn't cover health insurance.
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Tangerines said:Hey college friend. Good thing that in order to even attend this college we must have health insurance.
Nail on the head buddy! Good job!
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Tangerines said:Hey thanks for your service. Good thing our country takes care of vets and give them money for the rest of their lives if need be. The government will buy you your plastic arm no doubt about that.
http://www.nchv.org/background.cfm Please read this. It's sad that a European has to help an American understand what's happening in his country.
Here's a quote:
Quote:
In addition to the complex set of factors influencing all homelessness – extreme shortage of affordable housing, livable income and access to health care – a large number of displaced and at-risk veterans live with lingering effects of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and substance abuse, which are compounded by a lack of family and social support networks.
Quote:
Tangerines said: Hey child. Don't work because I do not condone child labor like Spency does.
I didn't say that. Plus you wouldn't care anyway would you?
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Tangerines said:I took loans out in order to pay for it. When I graduate I will get a job and pay the loans off.
This has nothing to do with anything.
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Tangerines said:Sorry I have no sympathy. Sure the new health care will help out some people that actually need it, but like Welfare the majority of people will abuse the shit out of it.
Please explain? How can you abuse your health care if your paying the taxes for it?
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Tangerines said:Lazy people come to mind.
Like nice rich people like you.
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Tangerines said:
You can see anything through the internet.
Ignorance is incredible.
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: TomCollins]
#388750 - 03/23/10 01:25 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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How am I rich? I am far from rich you judgemental prick. Just because I do not want socialized health care does not mean I am rich. Your argument is stupid. I know plenty of vets who get everything paid for them. EVERYTHING.
Are you seriously going to sit and call me rich and lazy? 
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: TomCollins]
#388751 - 03/23/10 01:27 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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How am I ignorant? because I have spent many hours talking on the phone with people from Germany, UK, and Spain?
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 FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Tangerines]
#388752 - 03/23/10 01:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am AMAZED at the amount of effort and blind passion you all have put into the argument.
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: TomCollins]
#388753 - 03/23/10 01:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good post. Glad you could contribute your absolute worthlessness to this thread.
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TomCollins
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 2,943
Last seen: 11 months, 11 days
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Tangerines]
#388755 - 03/23/10 01:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:Nice edit.
Here is what Spency wrote...last line of his post.
Quote:
Like nice rich people like you.
Umm.... it's still there buddy... just scroll up a bit.
Quote:
Tangerines said:
How am I rich? I am far from rich you judgemental prick. Just because I do not want socialized health care does not mean I am rich.
If you plan to pay for private health insurance I'd say your better off than about 90% of the world. Why are you getting so upset over this anyway.
Lol, your telling me my arguments are stupid when you attempt to mock me with such quotes as "Beer is a human right." Wow man, your mind blowing. Homeschooling did not help at all!
Quote:
Tangerines said:I know plenty of vets who get everything paid for them. EVERYTHING.
This is what's wrong with your logic. You go only by what you see. In reality things are different. Please read.
I see you still haven't read that article... *sigh* here you go again. From that same website I posted.
Quote:
Veteran-specific highlights from the USICH report include:
23% of the homeless population are veterans
33% of the male homeless population are veterans
Quote:
Tangerines said:
Good post. Glad you could contribute your absolute worthlessness to this thread.
Are you talking to FB or me?
In any case, I can see your upset and I apologies for this. I didn't mean to make you angry or offend you, I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter.
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andyistic said:
Ok so let me bring you idiots up to speed.
The admins are tired of this shitfest being made the joke of the weed community on the Internet.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 12,045
Loc: Carpal Tunnel
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Tangerines]
#388756 - 03/23/10 01:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:
Good post. Glad you could contribute your absolute worthlessness to this thread.
right back atcha!
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Tangerines
Grease Wizard
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 9,497
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: TomCollins]
#388757 - 03/23/10 01:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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The beer thing was a joke dude. If you are taking the internet that seriously where you believe every word then you probably need to utilize that social medicine and check yourself in to a psych ward.
Those stats are lame man. If they are even reliable, most of them are homeless because they choose to ignore help. There are plenty of ways to get help if they wanted it. I have hung out with a lot of homeless people and have heard it all.
I'm far from upset. If you think I get upset over the internet you are sadly mistaken. You on the otherhand obviously are pretty upset judging by the rating you keep editing for me. 
It's funny.
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DieselB
High Watt Closet
Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 1,156
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: Tangerines]
#388758 - 03/23/10 01:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Everyone chill out and go smoke a bowl, we are all here for what we have in common, we like to.. Well you already know that. We are something like colleagues and should be treating each other as such.
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If you ain't smokin' dro, you're smokin' reggie.
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Doitagain
Smoothie therapist
Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 7,226
Loc: i am everywhere and nowhe...
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: BAM HEALTHCARE [Re: TomCollins]
#388759 - 03/23/10 01:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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both of you quit your bitching, i have seen the promised land and socialized beer does exist. Go to a kibbutz in Israel, and the beers at the pub are 1.50 for a 22 oz Tuborg Red (beats pretty much any american beer including most microbrews here)
Until it actually comes into place and the effects are made clear we're all just speculating so no need to take it so seriously.
both you 2 need a beer
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ltd said:
fgts just don't understand
keep the shit
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